I'm Pro-choice & Pro-abortion

[litost]

This myTake is purely my opinion & I'm not claiming to be an expert on this topic just giving my 2 cents.

I am pro-choice which as you know is the view point of giving women the right to decide what to do in the case of an unwanted pregnancy.

I am also pro-abortion; this doesn't mean I'm about to include a link to a kickstarter campaign where we just ban babies and force abortions, but I believe that to be honest it's none of my fucking business what a woman chooses to do with her body but I will support her right to do so. I would never shame a woman into keeping the baby. Many pro-lifers give the argument of adoption, think of how many unwanted children are already lost in the system & how much it's costing the government as well as how bad it is for the children themselves, the minorty of children given up actually get adopted.

A lot of pro-lifers only fight for the fetus's righs until its born then they don't give a shit. I see lifers protest outside clinics but I never see them offering to take the child in.

Anoher point I would like to bring up is body autonomy.

A really good example of this is shown here:

Ahy should a woman be forced to givew over her body and sacrifice her rights for this?

'Well it was her fault unprotected sex blah blah blah'

But think of this how many of you haven't had a slip up honestly.

Aay you got drunk and had a one nighter (or just a one nighter in general, no sex shaming tbh).

Or your condom broke.

Birth control failed (& it does I myself am the product of a failure on the behalf of a contraceptive pill).

Maybe even rape.

Or you just forgot to wear a condom.

It only takes one slip up to get pregnant and for that you should have a baby you don't want & possibly can't care for?

Making abortion illegal

Again goes against body autonomy which goes against human rights. And the big one in favour of legal abortion is obviously laws against abortion do not stop abortion; they simply make it less safe. The number of women who get abortions does not change when it goes from being legal to illegal. The only thing that changes is more women die. When abortions were illegal in my contry they still went on just many many women were fucked up by it to say the least e.g they died like litterally fucking died, of had their reproductive stystem so damaged they were unable to ever become pregnant again (may not seem like a big deal but think of it this way you may not want kids when you're 16 but you can easily change your mind by the time you're 30).

Religious arguments

Okay I'm a little rusty on this because its been like a few years since I studied religious studies.

In Christianity the Bible never mentions abortion and does not deal with the question of when life begins. Infact The Book of Exodus clearly indicates that the fetus does not have the same legal status as a person (Chapter 21:22-23). That verse indicates that if a man pushes a pregnant woman and she then miscarries, he is required only to pay a fine. If the fetus were considered a full person, he would be punished more severely as though he had taken a life.

In islam many believe abortion is acceptable before 120 day. This has to do with ensoulment e.eg the fetus then becomes a person or something I'm not too sure. But before 120 days the mothers rights take president and it is up to her.

I'm not going to give anymore examples because those are the two I remember and I dont want to spread information I'm not informed about.

This doesn't mean I would get an abortion but it annoys me how people who have never been in that situation before throw out hate filled opinions or argue one is okay but...

Here is no but...

Rights do not decrease when we use them!

It was her body the first time and guess what?

Still her body the 100th time.

Don't like abortion dont get one!

[dogbert444]

Nice one!! So well thought out, and so well put. I think this is one of the two best myTakes I've seen on here.

[mardybumm]

glad someone finally sat down and just told it!

[BellePepper]

Seriously, this is my favorite post on this topic so far. AWESOME job!

[code3]

This is beautiful. Like, I can't find words to express how much I love this take. I'm gonna screen shot it and keep it because it makes me feel a lot better about they way I believe. Thank you :)

[litost]

That made my day a little brighter thank you

[code3]

I'm loving the clear divide between my upvotes and downvotes. Really, it's hilarious and shows the biggest problem we have when trying to solve the abortion debate. Men say it's wrong to think these things and try to abolish any contraceptive method because THEY'RE NOT THE ONES GETTING PREGNANT.

[LightsOff]

"Pro-lifers" are usually full of shit.
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...c96c1d94c8.jpg

[LightsOff]

Also noteworthy: they don't care about the woman's life. They don't care if her body is destroyed by the pregnancy, if she's not financially stable, mentally stable or in general stable enough to take care of a kid. Pro-lifers merely view pregnancy as a punishment. It shouldn't be like that.

[Minxxie]

Really great take. Anyone who thinks my aunt deserved to die when her pregnancy was killing her is sick, she already had two children and would have left them motherless! But pro-lifers are just perverts who want to punish women for having sex, if they were really pro-life they'd be against wars, the death sentence, guns, and children being left to starve! They'd rather protect a clump of cells than a living breathing child who is getting abused! dear pro-lifers a better use of your time than harassing women outside of health clinics who mayor may not even be getting an abortion would be volunteering to help CHILDREN and struggling mothers! But no you are hypocrites!

[Illusive_Man]

Uhh... I don't mean to be a spin doctor but... let's try not to use the term.
"Pro-abortion" eh?
It kinda gives people on the fence the wrong idea that we are celebrating abortions.
We are not. We are giving the autonomy of the body back to women , that's it.

[black_skinny_jeans]

I agree with you 100%. It annoys me when someone says that adoption is a better alternative than abortion- the woman will still suffer the nasty consequences of pregnancy only to give up the product of it if she goes for this option.
Another thing is that people call fetuses babies, but they can't be babies until they're fully developed- can live outside the uterus which isn't until after they're born.
Yeah, I know that some babies are born prematurely- 6,7, 8, month- and they most likely won't survive without incubators.

[NotTheRegularNiceGuy]

I disagree with you. You say you're pro-choice but nobody asked the fetus/baby if it wanted to live or die. If you abort he/she won't have a say about it. Your entire argument about body autonomy dies there. 'You' chose to protect 'yourself' in detriment to someone who barely had the chance to exist. To defend choice you must allow others to choose their future, and your point of view simply won't allow that.
When it comes to rape the situation becomes a lot different. The woman probably will never live an entirely normal life and probably will always fear that the child becomes as agressive as his/her father. The damage caused both to mother and child will probably be very big. Considering the future consequences of allowing such pregnancy to go on I understand perfectly if she decides to abort. It's not the happiest ending possible for this story but it's one I believe most will a agree to be a less painful one.
On the other hand, when a woman that wasn't drugged by someone else, no matter if drunk or not, has sex and gets pregnant they have a responsibility over it. She's not a victim. She's a sexually able being who should already be responsible enough not to go around having unprotected sex. That is valid for most men and women in the world.
You used that reddit post as an argument. The right the law gives to decide the destiny of your organs is more religious than anything else. In some countries (namely Germany, one of the most civilized and ethic countries on modern days) you can't decide many things that happen to the body unless you're capable of paying a high price. What happens to your body is a matter of public healthcare and well-being. The needs of the many exceed the needs of the few.
Furthermore, as a med student, the whole "its not alive" argument is the stupidest thing I've heard. A fetus is a mass of alive cells with the biological aim of becoming a fully formed human being. It is alive. Denying that only shows that many 'pro-choice' only fight for their own convenience, making excuses to deny anything that can possibly relate abortion to murder.
Also, the comparison over the 'donating blood case' made me think you believe law and justice to be one and the same, or at least very alike, but they aren't. With that in mind I feel the need to express that you have the right not to donate blood on the rather well-described situation, but that doesn't make your option ethical.

[litost]

Okay I appreciate you taking the time to write a well informed opinion. But the way you put it you're making pregnancy and having a child a punishment for having sex. No one should be forced tp gove up there body. The cells are living but they're just that cells I give up cells everyday. Women should not have the decision made for them a decision that could put their health in danger or throw them into poverty

[Aud_Queen]

My thoughts exactly.

P. s- All those prolifers who harass women for wanting to abort better be adopting those children and giving them a chance!

[oracle12c]

Have you ever heard of ideology or religion, neither forces you to personally compensate others, for their own faults!!! Rather than adoption, however about free birth control. Using birth control should't be a problem for anybody.

[Aud_Queen]

Your right, it is their OWN FAULTS. There's no "YOU" there. Because when push comes to shove, "saving" that child only means harassing the mother into having the child. I never see the pro lifers offering to help with costs of the pregnancy, or even buying anything or paying visit to the child and mother to see how their doing. It's okay to voice your opinion, ideologies, or whatever religion your heart follows. But that doesn't mean people have to listen to them. Free birth control? are you serious? Birth control isn't 100% effective. People will still have sex. If lack of access to birth control was the leading cause of abortion, then I'd agree.

[Aud_Queen]

I'm just so done with this subject. I'm going to log off before things get any worse. Because they will.

[ThisDudeHere]

Not to spur hate here, but why exactly is the "don't have sex if u don't want a child" argument invalid here? Sex biologically is there for just that. Procreating. And humanity does not have a 100% effective birth control method except for abstinence. Why is it that people can so freely choose to have sex knowing that there always is that chance to get pregnant? Always.

[ThisDudeHere]

cont. But they are unwilling to take responsibility for taking that chance. However small it may be with condoms or pills. Even if it's less than 5%. It's still there.

[Pat8707]

No one has responded because they cannot rebut this.

[litost]

So everytime you have sex you do it to pro-create? People have sex for fun its a fact babies shouldn't be used as a punishment for people doing something natural

[ThisDudeHere]

All I'm saying is that every time you have sex, you run the risk of making a baby. Every time. Objectively speaking whether you do it for fun or not doesn't matter. I could be drifting down the street in my car for fun all I want. It being ''fun'' does not change the fact that there are risks. Fun is not an excuse.

[code3]

You could go for a nice bike ride and have a chance of being creamed by a truck, so why do it? In fact, why go outside at all? So many things could kill you! You could choke on a bug or get shot, struck by lightning, fall just right...

[ThisDudeHere]

@code3 the diffrrence is that I mostly endanger myself and not an unborn child. The whole ''life is dangerous as it is'' thing is a pretty low argument.

[code3]

And supporting the violation of a human right makes you a pretty low person. If I got pregnant right now it would ruin my life, no exaggeration. My life is more valuable than something that can't circulate blood let alone think.

[ThisDudeHere]

@code3 Then don't have sex to 'potentially' ruin said life. But all right, this won't go anywhere.

[code3]

You'll have to take that last point up with my husband. Lmao

[ThisDudeHere]

@code3 whether another person wants to do it with you or not doesn't change anything.

[code3]

Alright, I was trying to be funny and lighten the mood, but I forgot that's illegal. Of course I'm not gonna have sex just because someone else wants to, that's stupid.

[BurgundyClouds]

Preach! This is exactly what I've been trying to explain to other people. Thank you for this. :)

[stresseddepressed]

totally agree a womans body is nobodies property! Pro-life? Adopt and unwanted CHILD not baby

[Jager66]

So what happens when the baby can survive at any stage outside the womb? you will be responsible for child support is what. The father will also have a right to claim the child because as soon as it's outside your body it is it's own person with all the human rights you have.

Abortion is only legal so long as the baby can't survive without the mother or medical intervention and the gape to having an artificial womb is getting VERY small.

[yourwaifu]

you can't tell me that it's okay to kill a baby, sorry but no matter what situation you're in it makes you a murderer if you abort your baby, maybe rape is an exception but you still kil someone who is not at fault like you are, i just can't tolerate murderer no matter the situation

[oracle12c]

I'll say solve the rape issues that letting the mother have the abortion but increase then sentence for the rapist to include the murder of the child - after all he causes the life to begin in a way where it had to end, his fault not hers.

[litost]

If you truly believe its murder then you wouldn't have exceptions

[Northeast106]

An abortion is the most economical solution and makes sense from a government perspective. To proceed with a child without an active father, or a mother with the financial means to take care of it means that the taxpayer picks up the burden. It cuts into our local and state budgets. Also, resources, jobs, etc are scarce as it is. I see why the issue is being pressed. On the other side, an adult woman is less innocent than a child, and what about that child's life? What if the father was willing to take 100 percent guardianship over that kid, and mother didn't have to pay anything or raise it? It's just not as cut and dry as a woman's choice, because it affects others as well, including the life inside her. Were not talking about getting a tattoo, or choosing to go topless to a beach. So yeah, I see both sides on the issue.

[Bards]

🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Gr8 take m8

[jacquesvol]

ISIS is clear about it: their captives are forced to give blood to ISIS fighters: www.reuters.com/.../us-iraq-yazidi-blood-idUSKBN0KO00D20150115

[jacquesvol]

In China too it happens.
Chinese schoolchildren 'forced to give blood' - BBC News: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-28819628

[jacquesvol]

You wrote an excellent take !

[Skadouchebag]

I would have to agree with the Muslims on this one.

[T-shirtsandkneehighs]

Preach it sister 🙌👏

[Chris_Pratt]

My son was born premature and it restored my faith in God so yeah I disagree. Don't like babies? Don't have sex!

[GreatnessPersonified]

I see children as a gift from God, and if you didn't want any (I'm talking to both people here), then don't have sex or have it with a condom. Even the pull out method is well, most of the time.
Or you can track the menstrual cycle for "safe" days!!
There are ways around this!!!

I do think abortion should be case by case basis.

Rape: Yes, that child will be a constant reminder of the event/incident, and I don't think the child should grow up with that.. shit on their head.

Consensual sex w/o the SO present: Um, why have unprotected sex with someone you are unsure will stay (for women) or risk fathering a child with a person you didn't want to with (for the men)? Use the methods I mentioned above.

Consensual sex with the SO present: If the potential father is in the potential mother's life, then he should have a say in the matter. There should be a discussion on what each would like to do and maybe come to a compromise.

[singlebee]

I think abortion is completely ok when the womens life is at stake! Or even in case of rape.. or any type of life threatening case

Its also ok to abort very early in pregnancy... If its unwanted

But not when the baby has matured way too much.. in the womb...

[COCOCHANEL]

i say it's selfish to not allow a human the right to have the choice to live.
i'm pro-choice for the kid. give the kid the choice. it's unfair to decide for him.
let the kid see what life is like and kill himself later if he doesn't like it.
there's still a good chance that he will be glad he was born.

[oracle12c]

Well said Coco, give the kids the choice that's the point :)

[litost]

did you literally just say let your child kill themself? thats fucked up

[COCOCHANEL]

asker nobody said the age when the person ought to kill himself. some mothers kill their infants and everyone is shocked and apalled. it's shocking to take your child's life. THAT is what's fucked up.

[RationalMale]

Women should learn responsibility like an man. don't want to be a parent, don't have sex. women need to be held to the same standards men are.

And in the USA, the demand for babies to adopt far outstrips the supply for Caucasian and hispanic children. try doing a little research.

'my body my rules' is that why the FDA heavily regulates foods and drugs? raw milkisn't even legal, why should killing an unborn child be?

[Prettygurl12]

Because every man steps up to be a father when they didn't want the kid. Okay, good to know. That's why child support violators don't exist, right?

[RationalMale]

@Prettygurl12 if a man doesn't pay child support, he goes to jail, despite the constitution flat out forbidding debtor's prisons. if a woman has the child killed and the body sold for organs, we say it's her right. women need to mature and be held to the same standards as men.

[litost]

Okay believe it or not life exists outside of the us. And secondly there are still thousands of children in care because after the first year or two demand drops because people tend to only want babies not toddlers kids etc. And how on earth are guys made toGIVE UP THERE BODY like lliterally have a little body invader. You're talking about shit you don't get gtfo. For someone with the name rational male you talk a lot of shite @rationalmale

[OnionsNstuff]

we have too many people on earth as it is

also no child should be born into an environment that isn't ready to raise it. thats worse than not being born at all.

[bubbletrouble]

My thoughts on this can be found on your question. My thoughts still remain after reading your take.

[candykinga]

I agree I hate when I see people being like one is okay but anymore blah blah blah, NO rights to ones body don't decrease when used. And I love the line about it being none of your fucking business is it okay if I print out a few copys to give to some closed minded co-workers?

[JackTyler]

You're probably gonna start a huge argument by posting this question. I agree with you though. I'm pro-choice.

[litost]

Everyone who gets offended by my opinion is ridiculous I said at the top that it was just my opinion

[JackTyler]

Yes they are. People on this site do get offended easily though.

[Omar5881]

Yes some believe in Islam 120 and some say 40 days and some say it's not acceptable at all but the people who r with abortions before 120 days or whatever say it must be for a reason not because u slept with ur boyfriend and got pregnant, and abortion with no reason is KILLING

[plinkett]

It's your body when you decide who to have sex with, if at all. After that it's not your body any more.

[Minxxie]

so you lose your status as a human being if you are a woman who has sex?

[plinkett]

No, it's just that now you have become the custodian of another body, not to mention you have embarked on a project with a male who happens to be the father. Women have every right to choose when to have sex and with whom. But once they commit and get pregnant, they can't just do as they please. The problem here is that we have poor morality and marriage is destroyed. A man and a woman should be married and firmly united, and THEN they should proceed to have children. Instead we have declared that everyone is an individual and everyone's selfish interests reign supreme. That doesn't work. Man, woman, and child ought to be one, a family.

[Anonymous]

Excellent take. I am republican and your vagina and womb are my business and after I force you to have a child I will no longer care about it's life. I will wait for the baby to get older and send it off to a false made up unjust war to die so the rich can make more money snark snark.

[Anonymous]

Do you support the harvesting and sale of body parts from aborted babies?

Let's see. Fetuses aren't human beings... just a clump of cells... unless you can make money off of them. Then, they are actual humans with hearts, brains, and other valuable organs. But lets not call a spade a spade.

[Anonymous]

I agree and disagree on some points for a good reason if the pregnancy was a product of a violent rape I could see an abortion being granted however as in the case of a 16 year old there is always adoption the child can still live have a good live and the bio mother to so that's my opinion now in the case where the child or the mother is at such grave risk of not surviving I can see abortion in this case as in my mother case I was killing her while I was in her womb the doctor was giving her pills to abort me something she didn't want to do but she was dieing so she did however I guess God had a greater plan because it didn't work obviously because I'm here and she survived to but I think I'm cases where the mother or child will suffer and die maybe it would be best other wise there are other options out there but that's just my opinion

[Anonymous]

I only agree with abortion under one circumstance and that's if the mother was raped. Other than that there's no excuse for it. If you don't want a baby don't fuckin have sex you damn cunts.

[Anonymous]

Agreed! what about women who got pregnant on accident? and have tocophopia, tocophopia is the worst thing to deal with while pregnant it harms their physical and mental wellbeing

[Anonymous]

People are gonna get super offended by this take. However, you did a good job and I agree.

[Opinion Owner]

Love the offended guy who is downvoting everyone who is pro choice. 👌

[Anonymous]

A human life is a human life whether in the womb or not. When the doctor tells you that you're pregnant does he have to tell you that it's a baby or just a mass of tissue or medical waste? Of course not, because anyone over the age of 3 knows pregnant means baby. Abortion, especially once the beginnings of the brain stem form, is simply murder.

Now to show you the barbarity you embrace, babies after 20 weeks are viable outside the womb. So is a 20 week preemie outside the womb any different than a 20 year old person legally? The answer is no. So when you abort a 22 week baby, why is that baby less deserving?

You have chosen to draw an arbitrary line at the entrance of your vagina to determine what is and isn't life and what is and isn't deserving of life. There is almost zero logical rationale you can use to condemn the murder of adults, teenagers, children and toddlers if you simply rely upon such an arbitrary definition. So if your parents, siblings, spouse or children get murdered, you cannot get upset. It's just a very late term abortion.

[Anonymous]

What I don't get is why are these women having sex if they don't want a baby? FACE it, that's a possibility if you lay down and have sex. Get a vibrator. I think its should be only pro choice for those who were raped or incest. Condoms are only so effective, birth control is only so effective. Don't want to get pregnant? stop having sex. Simple.

[code3]

People like sex, they will continue having sex with or without the intent of reproducing. You may think it's simple and makes sense, but a rule like that is not enforceable. That's like, oh you don't want to die? Then don't walk outside to do anything because a million things have this percent chance of annihilating you.

[Opinion Owner]

But still no one is making them have sex. Women are in100% control of that. Women are the gatekeepers of when sex happens and when it doesn't. That's why they should get a sex toy if they know for a fact that they aren't going to want a kid. And you can die in your house too... Death is not only restricted to if you go outside or not.

[LightsOff]

"But still no one is making them have sex" so there's this thing called rape

[Opinion Owner]

And I clarified in my original comment that women who are victims of rape and incest should be able to get a abortion... You don't have sex if you don't want a baby or go get fixed at least if you don't want one.

[litost]

Pregnancy is not a punishment nor is having a baby. A baby should be something you're overjoyed about not a harsh life sentence

[Anonymous]

finally someone who agrees... All these girls that have babies who can't care for them. I don't believe in having an abortion just cause they're available, but if for some reason you get pregnant and just aren't ready for a baby cause it will basically destroy your life or career at the moment then that's fine. Or you could have the baby and give it up to someone who can care for it.

[Anonymous]

Exodus 21:22-23 Easy-to-Read Version

22 “Two men might be fighting and hurt a pregnant woman. This might make the woman give birth to her baby before its time. If the woman was not hurt badly,[a] the man who hurt her must pay a fine. The woman’s husband will decide how much the man must pay. The judges will help the man decide how much the fine will be. 23 But if the woman was hurt badly, then the man who hurt her must be punished. The punishment must fit the crime. You must trade one life for another life.

Conclusion you must trade one life for another life, abortion = death penalty.

[Opinion Owner]

The problem with the issues is debating it with people (like you) is pointless, the main issues is technical in nature and not based on opinions or feelings. Is abortion the ending of a human life by removing it's life-support, yes, then it's killing a human, done deliberately then it's murder. The problem here is the law, it's legal now because the baby doesn't become a human with right, until birth. a 24 week old baby can be save and they are, but they are also killed in abortions, so the whole it's not is child is rather irrelevant based on present laws. Free abortion is like the sale laws, it was legal but immoral and even unconstitutional. But the military and police is what makes the law legal, and they believe in abortion so that's it, game over.