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The definition of something living includes the ability to grow, which is exactly what is going on inside a woman, who is pregnant. An abortion ceases the growing process, therefore ending the future life of a human being. This little being may not start with a heartbeat or brain activity, but cells are still dividing and allowing it to.
It arguably it is life when you can save the child in premature birth at age 24 weeks. The 24 weeks old life can both be taken and saved by the same doctors – killing the idea, that it is not a child and does not have a brain. If we would have stock strictly to the free abortion period, you could argues so, but since we do not, that argument is failing under the current laws.
Children cannot be and do not ask about being born, this is purely an option adults have. Whether the woman get pregnant or not is a choice by actions or lack of same, by two individuals – rape excepted. Pro-life individuals say abortion is taking the right to live, from a human being, a right an embryo cannot defend.
In ancient Rome infanticide were permitted under Roman law, but that doesn’t make them humane. Leaving your child on someone’s doorstep, or committing murder are considered a major penalty today, so why not abortion!! Roman law also support the institution of slavery (non-racial based slavery that is, the Romans didn’t discriminated based on race, everybody was entitled to be enslaved by Roman standard), yet today we see slavery as an abomination. Just because it is legal, does not mean is morally right or can be defended morally.
In 1973 abortions were made legal throughout the US, yet many would be more than happy to see them made illegal once more. Do you feel abortion is a woman’s right like the slave owners use to think of their rights to keep the slaves!!!
Abortion is a problem, because you can’t have the right of one part without violation the right of the other (it’s child vs mother in this case). For the taxpayers, abortion is cheaper than having many unwanted babies born and our earth is closes to being overpopulated as it is, so why is abortion a problem?
The answers is, because it ethically and morally wrong and the problem should be handled as a human rights issue, it’s hard to defend human right when the same individuals arguing for it, are so easily killing others just because they don’t have a voice or dear I say vote. Then the human rights outcry, become rather hypocritical when we don’t based our society on a moral principal and stick to it, but pick and chooses based on personal preferences, we then lose the moral justification.
Abortion Facts:
- 40 million abortion are done annually, globally
- The number of unhealthy abortions is unknown, since the statistics doesn’t support the distinction on a global level
- Having abortions legalised is beneficial for most adults, the mother and farther, society in large etc. with only one victim the child – without a vote
- Only 9 Weeks after Fertilization, more than 90% of the body structures found in a full-grown human are present (medical classification changes from an embryo to a foetus at this point) - at this point the child might be able to feel pain, but it’s unknown if it is so
- 24 Weeks after Fertilization, is the latest abortion time, however also within the reach of modern medicine to save the child if prematurely born. Here we see a clear crossover where the same child can be saved or killed, depending on the circumstances
So emotions and the law sat aside, what is morally right here?
What Girls & Guys Said
54 45It's never murder.
Its so... debatable. I mean it is murder, it is killing a living thing. But when you swat a fly do you think of it as murder? What gives us the right to play god. Not that i believe in god. I think its more about if or not that mother would provide a decent life for the kid. Also.. over population is fucking ridiculous as it is! but oh no its murder, never kill.. then we're standing on top of one another with no food, and boom, religious people are saying "god wanted this to happen" don't use your brain which god supposedly gave us to use, follow an ancient book.
I'm pro-choice. It all depends on the circumstances.
When it is ok and when is it not, and based on what principals?
It's killing plain and simple.
If they aren't prepared to raise one, they dont need to have one.
and if they abort they should be sterilized.
@dudeman says the loser who thinks "no" means "yes"
no most times does mean yes. where have you been living.
Can't it be both
How can it be both?
why can't it?
The church permitted abortions until quickening for 1800 years. So did common Law. It changed only with 19th century Puritanism and Christian revival. Now it's legal. Full stop.
Humans makes the law legal, there are unjust laws as there are unjust people. What's legal therefore doesn't say anything about right or wrong.
In your reasoning right or wrong is abstract and determined by religion or philosophy. Right is what's approved or commanded by a deity or something alike Wrong is what's not approved by a deity The whole NT doesn't mention abortion once. In the OT babies were massacred by dozens, women's bellies were ripped open. In the OT abortion was even prescribed if there was a suspicion the woman had cheated. In reality right or wrong is determined by society and laws are determined by representatives of society.
No right or wrong is an absolute. What an individual see as right or wrong are determined by personal believes being political, religious or philosophical. You don't legislate based on the NT or the OT, the law should represent all incl. atheists. The law however should be consistent and based on some moral principal, and when those moral principals have been defined then all legislation should conformed to those principals. The current laws are inconsistent, you kill a baby at the same age as you save it. You punishes for it's murder at the same age as you say you can feely kill it. The laws are inconsistent and incoherent, I want consistency based on moral principals.
That's your opinion. Nothing more.
abortion clearly shouldn't be legal. its murder there is no way around that fact.
A) Men should not have any say in abortion as its not their body. Forcing your view on a girl is exactly like slavery. B) Your argument where even you said is "arguable", as to what defines living... is still arguable and yet you still went off to conclude the rest of your opinion based on the assumption that you are correct? Anyway, abortion is fully valid based on circumstances. If you were raped or the baby is deformed, or going to be born with detrimental abnormalities, or an honest mistake happened where you had a baby by accident (condom broke or something), and you have no money to support the baby... yeah then I would abort.
A) Men do all the time, that's why we have elections, it's called democracy. How about drugs, that your own body as well, yet not legal. We do make such limits all the time. Besides it's about the baby not the parents. B) What defines living is the main issues, you are right about that. If it's not life, who cares right, if it is then it murder or sorts. Naturally there are issues about rape, deformity and abnormalities that's why I said the society benefits from abortion. The real question is, it is ok to sacrifice those kids for the sake of society and taxpayers?
all men were once a fetus so men definitely should have a say.
Around where I am people use abortion like contraception. I'm pro-life but it doesn't really matter so I've just learnt that abortion is legal and people are going to do it and that's the end of that.
Yes it will remain legal, in fact Ireland is considering legalising abortion now, so it's going the other way. At least we should try to minimise abortion, using it as contraception is well expensive if nothing else.
"So emotions and the law sat aside, what is morally right here?"
There is no certain answer for this question. Only opinions. Nothing is right or wrong here. I say it's to do or not to do.
I am Pro-Choice and say abortion is indeed murder. I think Abortions should remain legal for any case. It's still the mother's choice to take an abortion or not.
The world I know? We're getting overpopulated and cannot support such amount of humans at the moment. At least not locally in our god-forsaken 3. th party places.
That is at least an opinion based on something you have though about. I do not agree with you, but I do respect your opinion because it was argued for logically and you do based it on a principal, namely the great good of mankind (reducing overpopulation etc.).
I see abortion as a last resort in the event of an extreme circumstance such as rape, teenage pregnancy, financial instability, mental instability and other extreme cases.
This is why abortion must be legal.
I am however against using abortion as a form of contraception if someone was too stupid to not use a condom.
Teenage pregnancy? Maybe they shouldn't have sex if they are too immature to deal with the consequences.
Free abortion make no suck distinction, besides there is a major difference between : *rape *teenage pregnancy *financial instability *mental instability They are not comparable nor in the same category. Unless you point it based on society's financial situation post birth?
@BelleGirl21 They have the right to have sex if they choose to. Abortion should be available to them because of the effect that giving birth could have on their body as well the situation they are in mentally and financially.
I never said free abortion. It should obviously cost money to perform the operation. All of these categories can be tied together such as rape and mental instability, teenage pregnancy and financial instability. I also forgot to mention that giving birth could be detrimental to the mother's physical health but that was implied.
When I said free abortion, I meant freedom of abortion, it was a poor translation from my own language. Teenage pregnancy and financial instability, I'll say no abortion at all, you made a choice NOW live with it. If the pregnancy is detrimental to the mother's physical health, I'll say abortion is justified, the same goes for rape. Mental instability is more tricky, presuming we are talking the child and not the mother. I don't see them as comparable situations at all.
Mental instability refers to both the mother and the child. If the mother has gone through a lot of stress and now has to deal with a baby than that is just unfair to her. As for the child, if it is going to be born disabled in anyway abortion would be the best choice in preventing a life of misery. As for financial and teenage pregnancy, people make mistakes. Sometimes the condom breaks and people just aren't ready for it. I wrote in one of myTakes that a serious discussion must take place before having sex for the first time to go over who uses contraception, whether either partner has STDs/STIs and what they would do in the event of a pregnancy. Sadly few people have this conversation, but you can't punish someone for being naive and horny. The abortion would be a way out and a lesson since I doubt a woman would ever want to go through such an experience again.
The problem with pro-life is that it's anti-choice. It's more about punishing the mother and forcing her to have a baby than anything else.
Nobody but the mother should have any say in the matter, is what I think. If you think your opinion is relevant you are free to adopt all those would-be-terminated children.
What I really want to know is why you think so? It sounds like you think abortion is done for the benefit of society (in essence to save money), is that it?
Abortion is done for the benefit of the mother and of the unborn child, women get abortions because having a kid can ruin their life and the life of her would-be-kid completely.
how about taking care of the kids after they're born? my mom said no one talks about how there are so many kids living in poverty now, but there are all these stupid abortion protests.
I agree. people could be devoting time into helping those children in poverty or our flawed adoption system instead of this never ending debate
Agreed. Another problem is that adoption for kids becomes increasingly harder once kids are no longer infants. Children who become toddlers are statistics thereafter in the foster care system who can't be placed in to permanent homes because couples are looking for infants instead, which there is a waiting list for that's years' long. No one thinks of this either during their protests.
@Ozanne - Here our paths diverge. The belief in whether the fetus (or even zygote) is human life goes on, and so will the debate about abortions. But your reasoning bothered me in this one. Using the argument that there are infants on waiting lists, and even worse, older children on waiting lists as part of the argument that abortions should be legal comes out like lets just euthanize the kids on the lists if you believe that the pre-birth babies are human life. And why should one think of the kids in orphanages when considering if abortion is right? That just makes the argument to be expediency over right.
i'm pro-let-the-child-have-the-choice
I personally would never have an abortion -- for my own moral stance I do not think I could handle having an abortion, and I know I could adjust to having a child. However, I don't think it should be illegal. I am 100% pro choice, it is up to whoever is carrying the fetus whether or not they want to go through with it.
I hate how there is so much pressure on woman when it comes to abortion. Do I think it's okay to kill a 24 week old fetus? No way, but it's up to HER it is NOT up to you or anyone else if she has to go through with it. What if she has no support? What if she was raped? I agree with those who are saying, it's better than raising a child in a horrible situation -- drugs, poverty, drinking, etc.
That's my take.
its up to her what she does yes i agree however choosing aboertion should just be punishable by law.
"No way, but it's up to HER it is NOT up to you or anyone else i" actually that is what laws are for, protecting the innocents. That's why rape and murder is illegal, when another person is hurt by your actions, then you personal freedom is limited already, I don't see abortion being any different. Current law are just wrong as where the slave laws of old, being the law doesn't make it right.
Then you sure as hell better wrap your four inch dick if you don't want to unexpectedly be a father. It's a mans problem too.
Everyone has a choice but the baby.
"Then you sure as hell better wrap your four inch dick if you don't want to unexpectedly be a father. It's a mans problem too." obviously the problem is not gender related at all.
four inch lol baby I got the anaconda. id fuck your mouth through your pussy
he would give you the best 10 seconds of your life danceislife080...
Freedom. *Moves to next question*
It's murder.
What's really hilarious is how legally, women are as responsible as children in the USA, while men have full adult responsibility, and then some.
A man accidentally gets a woman pregnant, and does not want to be involved with raising the child, financially or otherwise... Deadbeat dad! Lock him up! Who cares that the Constitution explicitly forbids debtors' prisons?
www.texasobserver.org/.../
In the USA, a man doesn't need to actually impregnate a woman to be legally held accountable as a father. If he didn't do a DNA test in time and contest paternity? Tough luck cuckold, pay up or go to jail!
A woman accidentally gets pregnant, and does not want to have a child? She can literally go pay professionals to crush the child's brain or "extract" the child limb by torn limb from her womb, and it's all good, she's an upstanding citizen!
I don't agree with you're conclusion, but I totally agree with the body of your comment. I hate how women aren't held accountable for anything. There's all this feminism bull crap but the second accountability comes into play or one of the other countless luxuries of being a women get taken away, we; all of a sudden, are horrible evil men.
This conservatives call these fetuses something like "a baby" .. It's great, just for 1 thing, it's not a baby !!! It's not counted in the national census. It's going to become a baby , but it's not at the moment. It's like calling a cow , a 'beef burger' , it's not a burger it's a cow, which eventually may turn into a burger.
Another thing, we cannot just classify when life was born, when did that fetus get life.
It's true it's not baby from conception onwards, it becomes a "real baby" somewhere in the third trimester. The words embryo and foetus are used for a reason. The term baby is uses as a emotional appeal. However, we can classify when life was born, when did that foetus get life that do happens at conception. The issues I think your are trying to talk about is awareness or ability to feel pain, yes?
Is it tax deductible before birth?
@TakeOwner, So before the man could say "aaah , that was amazing" There is a third person in the room. Before the woman can say " What are you thinking? " there is a third person in the room ! Before both of them can get up and pull up their underwear over their fat asses, there is a third person in the room.
Conception doesn't happen that fast, besides the egg have to stick to the mother as well before the cells starts dividing. When does the embryo or foetus, become a child in your opinion and based on what?
It becomes a child when it starts looking like one, and even then, I wouldn't think twice to abort that shit. Because we do that all the time, and not doing it for a something just because we made it is biased. Tell me , why don't we share the same compassion towards a tapeworm that we do for a foetus. Both infest our bodies, both came from an outside specimen, and both cause pain when extracting.
Depends of the quantity of time that have passed since sex.
Meaning?
Meaning that we need to understand where is the frontier beetween a beeing that can feel some emotions, and the first phases. But im not specialist so i can't point a time.
Yes, that's the dilemma we faces about abortion. As you said we actually don't know, not even the specialist know at this point in time.
In Portugal is legal for as long as 10 weeks. I dont know how developed may be in this time...
like this:
www.babycenter.com/...r-pregnancy-10-weeks_1099.bc in most countries to can get an abortion as far as 24 weeks under certain circumstances.
This is 24 weeks:
https://www.donnaleeoriginals.com/miraclebaby.jpg
Yes, they are fully alive when 24 weeks old and can be prematurely born.
It hurts just to imagine... on one side we have woman liberties and the right to bring a child in a better moment, and the other the almost child...