The Ugliest Side Of Abortion Laws

The Ugliest Side Of Abortion Laws

As a society, we recognize that incest and rape are situations in which a woman was not given the right to chose to have sex. We recognize under law even, that rape is forcible as is incest particularly when the other individual is older and in the care of the victim. Yet instead of just punishing the perpetrators for this action, some instead seek to additionally punish the victims by saying that they should not only be forced to have the child out of incest and/or rape, but raise it as well. Some states are even seeking legislation to convict the potential mothers in the case of incest and rape, of murder, should they chose to have an abortion, even if their own lives are at risk. It's kind of hard to understand how someone can advocate so hard for life, but then if the actual potential mother is at risk, all of a sudden, it's okay that she dies? Irony...define it.

I can only gather that most of these people advocating that rape and incest victims should be forced to have these children, fall under a few categories. They are men who can not possibly ever get pregnant from rape or incest. These are people who have never had a family member or friend experience pregnancy after rape or incest. Or these are people who have never had to deal with the life long psychological consequences to both potential mother and child. None of these people even think about the fact that these often young victims have to go to school or a job and have people ask about the father or how they got pregnant so young and what wounds that will continuously open up.

The Ugliest Side Of Abortion Laws

What does that say about us as a society when we seek to punish victims of crimes we recognize as crimes, even though, they themselves are innocent? You also have to realize that in many cases, these victims are still children. That is to say you expect a 12 year old somewhere who is the victim of incest and/or rape by her father or sibling or other person, to now raise a child because she was raped. What 12 year old do you know who is ready to do that, let alone while she's dealing with actually having been raped by someone she may have trusted or a perfect stranger?

Can you honestly look a 12 year old incest or rape victim in the face and say she should be forced to raise a child she never asked or consented to have in the first place just so YOU can sleep at night with your views intact? Are you willing to say that to your own child or your sibling if that happened to them? Would you be able to say that to your wife if she was the victim of rape? Are you also in that case, willing to raise the rapists child? I can't say those things to a victim. I won't, and never will. That is to me saying that the rapists has far more rights to do what he has done, than the actual victim has to actually make any choices as to what to do after she has been raped or the victim of incest.

If you are pro-life, I believe you have the right to be pro-life when it concerns yourself and your own body or that of the person you are sleeping with, but I don't think it ever gives you the right to decide for someone else, especially in the case of young girls and women that have gone through forced sex and molestation and incest. You're not living their lives, you're not having to raise that potential child, you're not going to have to deal with the after affects as a spectator that may not even know them or their situation.

To me, this argument that rape/incest victims should not have a right to chose is saying that you condone rape and incest. It really is. You're saying, everything that happens before and afterwards is a-okay to you, and worse, some even hold it up, and say, well rape and incest are somehow a part of God's plans for that person. I mean seriously, what kind of God is that that would subject a young girl or woman to being raped and molested by someone she trusts? That's not a God I will ever believe in, if that's what God is all about for you.

The Ugliest Side Of Abortion Laws

It's easy to sign off on something that can't or hasn't personally affected you, and even if it has, just because you handle it a certain way, doesn't mean everyone can undergo the same. We're talking about trauma, violation, rape, and incest, not some kids who got drunk one night and didn't use a condom. Even with adoption, people make it seem like it is so easy to give up your kid as if you just walk away and never think of them again. You may be giving up your kid to a system that throws them away and forgets about them like so many kids in foster care and the adoption system that have been in the system their entire lives.

There is no easy solution, but I do believe there is room for you to believe in pro-life for yourself, and others to believe in pro-choice for themselves, but the minute you start thinking you're entitled to decide for someone else what they can and can't do with their bodies, where does that end exactly? How much are you personally willing to standby and let someone make choices about your health and your body and your rights even if you disagree with them completely? It's a slippery slippery slope there.

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Most Helpful Girl

  • The people who argue that no one should be allowed to abort because it's "murder" are people who obviously haven't been int he situation. They weren't raped, struggled through countless hours of useless therapy and hundreds of panic attacks or self harm attempts, then denied the right to get rid of the reminder inside of them that they know will tip them over the edge. They haven't watched their daughters, sisters, or wives dying slowly and painfully because their child is killing them from the inside and they can't save themselves. They haven't lived in severe poverty or had to visit food banks just to support themselves, then be told they have to support for a whole new human simply because there was an accident and a child was conceived.
    None of those people care about what happens to the child in the long run, or even the mother. They will refuse to let the child be "murdered", then do nothing as that child dies a slow death from starvation, homelessness in the cold, or the struggle of being shoved into an already overcrowded system of unadopted children.
    I agree with your MyTake 100%. Just like you said, if you want to be pro-life, then believe that, but don't try to tell anyone else what they can or cannot do.

Most Helpful Guy

  • Abortions because of rape or incest are roughly 1% of abortions. There's been about 54 million abortions in the USA since it was mass legalized over the will of the people. You want to talk about the ugly side? That means that well over 52 million children in the USA have been killed in the womb by their own mothers.

    It's estimated that about 11 million people, tops, died in the Holocaust. American women have slaughtered over 4 times that many... of their own children. And yet, we are told men are the irresponsible ones in the USA.

    • So forcing a woman or a young girl to have a child is okay with you in the case of rape/incest? You're okay with raising a rapists child if it were your wife or girlfriend? You'd tell a sister she had to have that child? We want to talk about choices, but no one is actually allowing these victims to actually decide for once in their case, what to do.

    • So murdering a child is okay in the case of rape/incest? That's just as suck and evil as people who support Islamic honor killings where a man can murder his wife or daughter if they were a victim of rape.

    • @Ratiocinative is rape and incest okay in your book?

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What Girls & Guys Said

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  • There's a lot of logical gaps in your argument here. The biggest flaw in your argument is that you assume people don't care simply because they haven't gone through it. Strangely, you state that you want people to endure it to know what it's like. Sounds petty to me.

    Lawmakers and politicians make decisions on these subjects based on what they believe is the best interest for the country and its population. That being said, there is no law or political decision that has EVER satisfied both sides of the party. Laws preventing abortion from incest and rape are not punitive measures as you see it. They are laws based on morality where lawmakers and politicians have decided that HUMAN LIFE, regardless of its origin, age or state of development, is more important than the emotional and psychological welfare of the mother. You obviously don't value human life when it is in an embryonic stage. But to some (mostly religious people), an embryo is no different than a full grown human being. So aborting a pregnancy is the equivalent of killing a teenager. That's how you need to look at it to understand the rationale. Nobody rational person would think that the emotional welfare of one person is worth more than the life of a teenager (or an embryo).

    It's not about the government feeling that they're entitled to make decisions on abortion for a woman. It is essentially that the government and the law recognizes an embryo as an independent life form, and that the mother has no right to decide whether to kill/abort that life.

    Yes the baby is growing inside you, but... does that constitute ownership over a life? And does it entitle the mother to kill/abort another human on a whim? The abortion law is there to protect those who do not yet have a voice.

  • Most abortions are women who can't afford to raise baby... now those against abortion should put themselves in those women's shoes.. if you can't afford a baby don't have it or would they rather the woman have a baby and then moan about how it's a drain on society...

    So either way the woman is damned if she does or damned if she doesn't..

    To me personally it's now 2016 someone can do what they like with their own bodies...
    I don't judge folk on if they have abortions or not, if they are having abortions then it's because they felt they had nothing to offer the child, how dare anyone judge someone who can't afford to raise child.. how many kids are living in orphanages around the world unwanted and unloved? Those anti abortion comments how many kids in orphanages will you be taking in? Abortions would stop if people were adopting more kids..

    I'd have an abortion of i found out my kid was severely disabled and baby would die within hours of being born..
    I'd have an abortion if I couldn't afford to raise child..
    I'd have an abortion if baby was result of rape.. I wouldn't love it knowing how it was conceived sorry

    That's 3 reasons right there why I would have an abortion...

    • The fucked up thing is that a lot of times the same people who would deny the right to abort to low income women are the same who'd deny accissbleand affordable birth control to them... and that right there tells you just where their moral compass lies... it's not about "life" at all, it's about punishing women for having sex. Abortion should be a last resort. And for most m women who've had one or who would have one, it is. But for a lot of women, birth control isn't even an option. If they can't afford he $35-50 a month for birth control, how the fuck does anyone expect them to raise a kid? Not only is it going to be damn near impossible for them to provide for the kid, financial stress is the number one key indicator that a family is at risk for abuse. Poverty is a bad situation to force children into. When it comes to reproductive rights, our number one goal should be to make birth control accessible and affordable to all. Number 2 should be to ensure that when that fails,

    • Abortion remains a valid and accessible option. We should value raising healthy kids over raising all the mistakes that happen.

    • As far as I'm concerned those anti abortionists that despise a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy, might want to take a couple of adoptive children in.. feed clothe and love that child.. I would rather a drug addict or an alkie abort their kids if it stopped many deaths of young babies through neglect as well. As for men taking the moral high ground on a woman's right, how many women through their lives have they had unprotected sex with? One night stands and having a laugh with their mates who they banged.. How many fell pregnant and these men never bothered to check up on the girls they had sex with? Exactly not many.. it's just a step up from their youth another way to look their noses down on women. A real man would be supportive of a woman's choice the men that's vocal are the ones that would rather oppress women.

  • Nobody is allowed to tell someone else how he should believe or organise his life. You can be against abortion, but that is your believe and it should only affect your life and not that of the others. And the same applies to other ethical questions like e. g. euthanasia. But our society is very hypocritic. Killing people is considered murder, but If you wear a uniform, you are allowed to do for the so called sake of the group you fight for.

  • Ok honestly, yes the mother and the father were irresponsible to have unprotected sex. But, condoms break all the time, and are you really going to prevent people from having sex?
    Its the woman's body, she should be able to do whatever she wants with it. Like I know its pretty fucking dark and horrible to kill an unborn child, but life has twists and turns and sometimes unplanned things happen, but no one should be able to control what a woman does and does not do with child, its none of anyone's business but hers. Are you really going to make a woman give birth, which is fucking painful and hemorrhage is always out there to possibly stab you in the back. And what happens when she does give birth to this so called baby? She doesn't want it, it gets sent to a foster home, and have to be reminded that their birth parents didn't want them, GREAT.

    • has*

    • The child's body isn't the mother's body. If abortion should be allowed, killing born people should also be legal. Killing is killing.

    • @curiousnorway if you think a bunch of pre-mature cells is a human being, than every time you jack off we should prosecute you for murder because those are "potential children." You cannot murder something that does not have any capacity whatsoever to think or feel any pain. We cannot murder your sperm, no more than you can murder those cells that have yet to even develop into a viable human being.

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  • In general I feel like a pregnancy shouldn't be seen as a "punishment" because the mother had "irresponsible sex" (newsflash: you can get pregnant even if you follow contraceptive instructions to a T because they are 99% effective, not 100%).
    A pregnancy is not punished. Girls who accidentally got pregnant should not be punished. How can you claim to value life so much when you don't care about the life of the mother? You don't care about the life of the child, who will either grow up in a home where it was unwanted, or might have to go through some tough times in the adoption/foster care system? How can you say you value life, when you only care about the kid's life as long as it's in the uterus? As soon as it's born, you don't care if it lives with parents who didn't wants it, if the family ends up in poverty because they couldn't afford the kid, if it gets emotional trauma from being adopted etc.
    Most abortions occur when the "baby" is just a zygote. It doesn't even have its own body yet, technically. It's just a lump of cells. It can't think or feel. It's completely unaware of its own existence. Why does that lump of cells have more rights than a fully functioning, thinking, feeling, breathing, living human being who would be traumatized emotionally, physically and maybe even financially by bringing that zygote to term?
    Should we also start advocating for the life of cancer cells too?

    • A pregnancy is not a punishment*

    • Perfect comment.

    • I totally agree, especially in the cases I'm talking about. Why is it always someone's business what happens with a woman's body, other than that woman. The only people who should have any power to make this type of decision is the woman or girl involved and the person she slept with, outside of cases of rape/incest. That's it.

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  • I would be damn aborting to the nearest clinic if I were raped. I'm not raising a child that was the product of a lowlife that forced sex on me, robbing me of my choice, consent and humanity overall.

    I get to choose when I freaking want to have sex and have a child with someone I care (preferable within a marriage).

    • Just because a human committing a seriously crime against you doesn't mean you have the right to do something seriously wrong either. The criminal person who rapes doesn't necessary care about the children and why should their act make you affect a innocent life negatively? I thinks every human beings should get a chance in the life. If you don't want children, you can adopt it away or give it a foster family. A unwanted child isn't lesser worth than a wanted child. They are both humans.

    • @curiousnorway something with no brain cells is not a human being. You're so concerned with the life of the potential child, but I notice you didn't say a word about the potential mother. Not one word about her lack of choice, the trauma she may be experiencing, how her life is affected by a pregnancy forced on her, the stigma around that pregnancy especially if she is young and pregnant in school (many public schools will not allow pregnant girls to attend their schools, but send them off to alternative schools with a lot of juvenile delinquent students), not to mention, what if her family disowns her or doesn't believe it was rape/incest which happens a lot? Adoption doesn't solve the problems nor guarantee a good life for that child. Many kids, especially minority children remain in the system until they are 18, and many more turn to crime.

    • @curiousnorway I shouldn't be forced go through even more pain (both emotional from what happened to me and physically from being a painful birth by force and even risking my health when going through all that) and get reminded how it happened. That overall shows your lack of concern for a traumatized victim and that you ruled by absolutes without making an exception to the rule. I disagre with you. I will not give birth to a product of a rape.

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  • I am definitely against abortion, but I'm undecided when it comes to rape, because that's a whole other story. I can't imagine how disgusted a mother must feel to have to have a baby with some psycho she unwillingly got pregnant with... So sad. :( If the person simply made a mistake or irresponsibly had a child with someone though, I personally think they have a responsibility to raise it or put it up for adoption - in such cases abortion should not be an option.

    • How do you propose we enforce that? What do you think will happen to the number of false rape claims if that rule was implemented? What about women who weren't "raped", but who are fleeing an abusive relationship from which they became pregnant? What about the women who simply cannot afford to have a child? What about the girls who were mislead about their bf's intentions and are now being ignored by the guy who said he loved her and now wants nothing to do with her? What about the girls who's parents might actually kill them if they found out? What about the women who's birth control failed them?

    • @Sara413 All of those are very different situations. Abusive relationship: they should keep the child or put it up for adoption. It's not like the guy was a stranger. Woman can't afford child: put it up for adoption. Ex boyfriend: keep or put up for adoption. Afraid of parents' reaction: keep or put up for adoption. Birth control failed: again, keep and take responsiblilty or put up for adoption. Abortion should not be an option unless absolutely necessary, like it's putting the mother in danger or something. As for enforcing all of this, I don't know. I guess we just have to start by raising more awareness. We have to start somewhere. It's absolutely disgusting that people take abortion lightly.

    • As for rape, like I wrote, I'm undecided on that.

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  • The single biggest problem with abortion laws, is that we haven't 100% abolished this wicked act with any of these laws. The number of times botched abortions lead to last-minute transfers to hospitals - that fail to save the mother's life - is so the mill isn't caught with the victim they messed up on dying inside the actual house of horrors itself. All to keep the money train going so the DNC can launder money through it!

    I say we bulldoze Moloch back to the Bronze Age, and make sure he stays there! Child sacrifice has no place in a truly civilized world. None whatsoever.

    • What do you say to that 13 year old that is raped or the victim of incest and is pregnant because of that? Do you think she is fit to raise a child, or endure the risks of bringing a child into this world if her body isn't ready yet so that you can stand there and say abortion is wrong, especially as a man who will never have to endure getting pregnant after a rape or case of incest? It was also shown that with complete bans on abortions, women were going to extremes to rid themselves of babies, leading to much more of a loss of life than medically sanctioned abortions, which actually is one of the main reasons we do have abortions back into law in many cases.

    • Better adjust that tinfoil bud...

    • I say that the grandmother has a responsibility to step up to. And that there is a very long adoption line if all else fails. And if you want blood to be spilled because a teen is pregnant, let it be the father's. He is the one who did what deserves death, NOT the unborn child! Incest does not make the child less human; it makes the PARENTS into bad human beings! We need to end this barbaric custom of killing children for the sins of their parents. ONLY GOD can judge us for what our ancestors do/have done! And even with "legal" infanticide in place, women STILL go to extremes to perform it on themselves anyway - to AVOID HAVING TO PAY FOR IT! (Or to avoid anyone finding out they went to a mill.) I'm reminded of the 11-year-old rape victim in Chile who refused to abort. Pro-abort thugs were flying into the country, just to tell her she was "too stupid" to know what she "should want!" It was never about choice. It's about blood sacrifice. Exchange theology.

  • Girl how many people get raped and get abortions in the US because of it? And how does being raped make it ok to murder the baby human growing in you?

    Please do your research on children from rapes. Their mothers end up loving them and the kids are always grateful their mom didn't abort them.
    Yea, rape laws should be harsher but they aren't unfortunately.

    • How would you or I actually know that number because due to the the often re-victimization of victims and poor rape laws against both male AND female victims by courts, media, bullying, the number of rapes and pregnancies as a result of those rapes is under reported. You cannot speak for all the rape/incest victims which lead to pregnancy as if all of them just come out of the situation just fine and their kids are just fine, because you are not there in their lives nor do you have to deal with actually being the child of rape, and even if you are, you can only speak for yourself. We're not talking about kids who just had sex one drunk night. We're talking about a dad raping his daughter, a sister being forced to have sex against her will. They should be allowed choice, for once, in their situation as to what they want to do. It is not their fault that that baby came into being against their will, and you have no business trying to dictate what someone else can do with their body.

    • BUt you are speaking on their behalf. You assuming that pregnancy from rape exists in the US. You made a take about it. Realize in order for it to be from rape a rape kit had to have been done before hand. Otherwise its you making the claim you where raped.

    • Am I reading that right? You believe rape simply doesn't exist unless a rape kit is done? Wow...

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  • Sorry but 98% of abortions aren't due to incest or rape but because someone wasn't smart enough to use contraception.

    • So, what? Do you support abortion for the few who are the result of rape, but not for anyone else? How do you propose we enforce that? What do you think will happen to the number of false rape claims if that rule was implemented? What about women who weren't "raped", but who are fleeing an abusive relationship from which they became pregnant? What about the women who simply cannot afford to have a child? What about the girls who were mislead about their bf's intentions and are now being ignored by the guy who said he loved her and now wants nothing to do with her? What about the girls who's parents might actually kill them if they found out? What about the women who's birth control failed them?

    • @Sara413 yeah like I said 98% of abortions are done because someone wasn't smart enough to realise that pregnancy is a natural result of sex and didn't use contraception your grasping at straws. Abortion is unnecessary, all thats needed is better sex education and free contraception ie the morning after pill.

    • 98% you say? Lol Where exactly did you get that stat? I'm guessing right out of your ass.

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  • I can't understand pro-life people. Everyone should mind their business and let people have their abortions.

    • And what of women who drown their already-born children in the lake because they cease to be convenient? How much and from which direction someone exits / has exited the womb now means that the First Amendment is rendered null and void? What superstition is this? Moreover, what do you think will happen to Social Security, if the future pay-inners are all aborted? Murdering one child murders countless opportunities for thousands. Abortion affects everyone. It is pro-death types I can't understand. Your selfishness and bloodlust are beyond reason.

    • I agree with you, @Library

    • "I can't understand pro-life people. Everyone should mind their business and let people have their abortions." yes then lets men rape women. Everyone should mind their business and let people rape. SARCASM

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  • i agree with you, its your life and body, and what happens good or bad should be up to you, not by some law invented by some idiot to determine it.

  • The majority of abortions aren't even based off rape or incest it's mostly people who don't want a child. I believe that the only way a woman should be able to legally have an abortion is her life or the child's life is threatened and if the woman is pregnant because of rape or incest.

    • How do you propose we enforce that? What do you think will happen to the number of false rape claims if that rule was implemented? What about women who weren't "raped", but who are fleeing an abusive relationship from which they became pregnant? What about the women who simply cannot afford to have a child? What about the girls who were mislead about their bf's intentions and are now being ignored by the guy who said he loved her and now wants nothing to do with her? What about the girls who's parents might actually kill them if they found out? What about the women who's birth control failed them?

    • @Sara413 Birt control is pretty effective especially if you use more than one method. There's really no excuse. If you aren't in any position to have a baby then you don't need to be having sex.

    • Haha wow ok... so I should never ever get to have sex with my long term domestic partner because we don't want to have children? That's ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous!

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  • ... but Jesus wants 12 year old girls to raise their rape/babies or die (and usually the fetus dies with them) from the complications of a dangerous pregnancy...

    • Jesus' mom too was only 13. Impregnated by... by who?

  • The deeper question is, "when is it ok to end a life?".

    • NEVER

    • @efefefefef daaaamn.

  • So all those Republican Conservatives who rant and rave about Islam wanting to control women and make them do things they don't want, where are they now?
    philadams.co/.../tumbleweed.jpg

  • factually inaccurate from the start. try again.

  • I agree that in situations of incest and rape that a woman (or a man) should have the right to abort (financial in the case of a man). It's inherently unfair for a person to be forced to have a child that they had no say in it's creation. The counter argument is that the child is itself innocent, and had nothing to do with the rape, and punishing/killing the child is wrong... (It's important to understand the mentality of those who you argue against).

    It's painful to me that we're getting back to "every time a person has sex, they consent to parenthood, even if they did not consent to the sex" This is the wrong direction

  • Actually I do because the sanctity of life is something that goes beyond me or you and rarely any of the abortions are a result of incest or rape maybe like 1% of them.

    Murdering a child is not ok, under any circumstances, period, end of discussion.

  • Im sorry there have to be so many stupid religious nut jobs ruining peoples lives.
    Could you have it done in another state where it is legal?

    • This is immature of me but i don't care because it should be pointed out when pepole sink to blocking you purely to have the last word. "RationalMale" just blocked me after i made one i think humorous comment that didn't agree with his sexist religious views just so he could get the last word. Whats wrong with monty python that on its own warrants being blocked?

    • @sedrftvgyhujik @RationalMale blocked many people who disagree with him.

    • @jacquesvol how did he become an editor if he's censoring everyone?

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