Transgendered Bathrooms Because Segregation Worked So Well The First Time

[Oberon960]

I apologize in advance as this really irritates me.

I was going through Facebook the other day and someone had a negative post about Target allowing transgendered identifying men (and women) into the bathroom that they identify with.

(See original article here)

So I didn't blow up on their page against similarly people haters, I decided this would end better.

First some background,

For the record I am all for this. I believe that people are inherently good and are taught otherwise (directly or indirectly) and thus change is possible. In most cases you would have a hard time correctly identifying transgendered people as they look just like the rest of us. It is estimated that 1 in 400 or 0.03% or roughly 700,000 Americans identify as transgender, that is the gender they identify with doesn't align with the sex they were assigned at birth. For some like myself, we simply don't identify as either man nor women but neither/both therefore we cannot align our sex with our gender. I publicly identify as man as my sex is man and it is way easier and I can avoid discrimination, at the expense of my own freedom. I have no interest in identifying as as a women, I just don't believe that I should be forced by law to conform to societies social norms because I was born with a penis. So what if I like to paint my nails and wear sundresses with a sunhat and heals? Why can't I do what makes me happy, especially if I'm not hurting anyone else? Sorry, different tangent.

Meet Shawn Stinson,

Shawn recently won a body building competition and would be arrested if he entered a male public bathroom in the State of Mississippi because there it is illegal to go into a bathroom or locker room different from what was written on your birth certificate, regardless of identity or actual sex. There are now men who could be arrested for entering a male restroom because they were born female.

Transgendered people just want to live life to its fullest and try to enjoy it to the best that they can. They however have a lot of people against them. and face many unique problems: discrimination, violence, murder, be disavowed by loved ones, hate crimes, in many states it is legal to be fired and kicked out of your home by landlords, apartments, and even banks because of sexual orientation or gender identity. They have higher or no healthcare, high homelessness and poverty because of legal termination of employment and contracts. Socially they face issues with dress codes, restrooms, locker rooms, confidentiality, pronouns (how would you like to be called the wrong pronoun all of the time?)

But why? Actual hatred, fear, confusion, religious reasons?

For the hard core Christians out there, no where does the bible say to hate and prosecute those that are different for you, I've checked. It also doesn't say to go out and force your religious beliefs upon those that believe differently. The Bible does not say to deny services, fire, incarcerate, or slur those that are identify differently from yourselves. Are the top 2 Commandments not obey/listen to your one true god and the second is to love your neighbor as yourself. Would you then be breaking both of these as the first is to follow the second? Let thee who has not sinned cast the first stone. Even if you believe they are going to burn in hell for all of eternity it is not your place to remind them that or make their living life as bad as hell.

For those who are afraid, generally you aren't afraid of those who identify as transgender but those that will take advantage of it. If someone wanted to attack you it won't be because they had "access" to your bathrooms it will be because it was premeditated, not because "it was convenient." They would have done it anyway. Charge guilty people and don't victimize transgendered people because of it.

I hate transgendered bathrooms, segregation worked so well the first time. It just reinforces that inequities exist and that it is okay to call them out on it. They are not boys pretending to be girls nor girls pretending to be boys. They are just boys and girls doing what makes them happy.

[Anonymous]

Nah transgender is a sever mental disorder. I will never support the normalization of it. They need actual help not forcing the majority to accept them. And yea transmen ususally look like men , very small men. But transgender women unless they get a shitload of plastic surgery they look like drag queens and not rupaul type. plus most transwomen keep their penis , and unless they get that shoved inside out and delude themselves its a vagina (which a vagina is a birth canal) than you need to using some other bathroom. You choose to transition, thats your choice , your beleif to shove your beleifs down peoples throats. And segregation? Your born play not trans idiot. and transgender women dont want gender nuetral bathrooms.. why? they dont wanna use bathrooms with men who know they are men. If women get attacked by a trans or a man acting like he is trans or a genderfluid person. The trans community will be getting massive amounts of hate unlike now. A man thinking he is a woman, forces women to use the bathroom as him and the majority cannot legally say no. Is the ultimate male privilege , transgender people especially transwomen work their male privilege. Im tired of the LGBT community , in the 70's they fought along side making pedophilia legal, they are effed up in the head. I

[Opinion Owner]

oh im an athiest too, i dont believe in a fairy god neither do i beleive someone is born in the wrong body. Im all for science and mfers are crazy these days

[skeptic007]

Nah transgender is a sever mental disorder. agreed

[FakeName123]

"It is estimated that 1 in 400 or 0.03%"

This is the key. You are forcing a decision that makes plenty of people uncomfortable for such a little minority. Thats the peak of selfishness, entitlement and self-importance.

Why? Because you feel uncomfortable. What about the tons of people who feel uncomfortable having some drag-looking transgender in their bathroom stall? Oh, you dont care about them right? Sure you dont.

[00Lelouchxx]

Oh my god your so right. And if you say these things in public your looked at as a devil or a demon. like how could you say that about gays or trans. A lot people feel this way there just silent because they don't want any problem like losing there jobs or you telling them your a monster

[MichelleJustAsking]

I think the issue isn't really as much as Trans rights, but the rights of two other groups as well: the rights of businesses to make their own rules, and the rights of people who don't identify as Trans, to feel comfortable in bathrooms/locker rooms.

First of all, I can imagine that Trans have been using the bathroom of their choice for many years and no one has even noticed. I think a lot of people assume a Trans is the same as a Crossdresser and they assume that all the sickos out there will abuse the new ruling to assault women or install video cams to spy.

Second of all, if a non-government business wants to open bathrooms to trans... or close bathrooms to trans, I feel that is up to the business owners. This is not an issue the government should have a say in. Period. For every 1 business out there that won't allow Trans to use the bathroom of their choice, there are 5 that have no issue with it. I can't imagine bathroom use is really that big of a deal outside the home. Think about it; how many times was it vital you used the restroom at Target to where you needed to fight to ensure you had access to it every single time you went shopping?

3rd, why does the Trans crowd's feelings trump those who aren't comfortable sharing restrooms with them? This isn't about access to a bathroom, this is about access to a bathroom of your PREFERENCE. Somewhere along the line, preference turned into a Constitutionally Protected RIGHT. That is really what I take issue with. Our feelings are not protected rights. And non-government businesses do not have to submit to the will of the government. On the flip-side, the government must submit to the will of the people.

I love that Target can exercise their own rights and conscience, to extend bathroom use to Trans' preferences. But I'm angry that that same courtesy isn't being extended to people who are not comfortable with it, in their own private businesses according to their own conscience.

[Kiwedin]

I don't get the big issue people have with it. I have plenty of lesbian friends and they've never tried to sneak a peek at me while I'm doing my business, because who the fuck does that.

[Mekkalyn]

See, personally, I'm okay with a trans using the bathroom of the gender they look like. If I cannot tell that they are trans, I don't care what part they have, because they really look and feel like a woman.

What I DO have a problem with is a man, wearing man clothes, going into a woman's bathroom.
I have a problem with that being okay, because that should never be okay.

We have been sharing bathrooms with transgendered people forever. That has not and will not change. If they look like their gender, don't be so judgmental... they truly feel as if they are the same gender as you! They aren't going to hurt you.

But I shudder to think of the intentions a grown ass man (who isn't actually transgendered) have to be in a woman's bathroom...

The only exception I have to that is if the dad has daughters. We should not be letting those daughters in the male bathroom... and dad should not be sending small children who need help using the restroom in the bathroom by themselves (and it's not like you can tell them to wait... if they have to go, they have to go). I feel bad for the awkwardness there.

[Stacyzee]

No, these people have mental illness. Why should pretty much exploit them?
This is why a lot of them receive therapy and counseling.

Don't get me wrong,
I understand what it means to be transgender, I have an acquaintance who is, however I disagree with catering to those who feel that their minds don't match up to their parts. This will open the doors to those with other mental illnesses to feel as if they should be deserving of certain rights (Trans-racial people etc.)

[Stacyzee]

*Why should we pretty much exploit them?

[EllieLexis513]

What's a trans-racial person?

[Stacyzee]

Some one born a certain race who wants to live as another. Rachel Dolezeal www.theguardian.com/.../transracial-definition-destructive-rachel-dolezal-spokane-naacp . She's a white woman living as a black woman. Google her pictures she looks nothing like what she looks like now.

[lumos]

You have an acquaintance who's transgender and you think that automatically means that you understand what it means to be transgender? Clearly not.

[93stepsawayfromhome]

Do you hide this opinion from your acquaintance? I feel like you might, because I'm not sure why you'd stay acquainted otherwise.

[Stacyzee]

@lumos I don't care what some chick who crawled out from under a rock thinks.

[hazoplmeught]

i totally agree that they shouldn't be supported because it is actually a mental illness (i studied this in my psychology class (not majored but took a class) like gender confusoin or something but now people are too PC to label it as what it is

[Stacyzee]

You're entitled to your opinion and so am I. Lets be adults here and not backlash those who don't share the same opinions.

[93stepsawayfromhome]

Do adults not criticise anyone, then?

[Stacyzee]

@93stepsawayfromhome It's not a conversation that ever came up. She goes in bathrooms with me and some people freak out. I can sympathize with her but I can see if this were a law this being more harmful than good. The number of rapes would increase I feel. Men can easily say I feel like a woman and go into a womans bathroom and hit on her. Things should stay the way they are

[hazoplmeught]

i think 93... was agreeing with you

[hazoplmeught]

but i do agree w3ith ur response

[Stacyzee]

@93stepsawayfromhome To form an opposing opinion respectfully vs. Insulting someone are two different things. One lacks maturity

[93stepsawayfromhome]

Believe me, no, we can't. I cannot stand the label of "man" that I'm forced to wear and go out of my way to identify as gender neutral, but I still can't just walk into the women's bathroom and use that as an excuse.

[Stacyzee]

@hazoplmeught He asked me a question , don't think he agreed.

[93stepsawayfromhome]

@hazoplmeught No, I wasn't.

[Stacyzee]

@93stepsawayfromhome You are transgender? I believe people should live the way they want as long as they aren't harming anyone. However , you have to see that law would have more negative than good. For you to "feel" better crimes would increase in the process. Is that even fair to society?

[hazoplmeught]

@93stepsawayfromhome oops my fault
I will add most people of a certain group dont do the bad things you expect, but it does happen more often with them. Ex: most psychopaths dnt kill, but you know what they can do
evidence
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...g-teenage-girl-man.html

[93stepsawayfromhome]

Gender is just something I struggle with. It's too complicated to explain. I don't feel like a man, but I also don't really feel like a woman, and I fear that if I settle on one of the two, I would always feel fake after actually transitioning — you don't genuinely become the other sex, you just start looking like it. I just prefer to identify as gender neutral for now. As for the bathrooms thing, I get your point, but then again, transgender people have been using the bathroom of their choice forever now and no one has noticed or cared. I don't think that an official legalisation of this would actually make the harassment numbers go up.

[hazoplmeught]

@93stepsawayfromhome you should probably just try to stop thinking about gender and just "live." Just be you minus focusing on gender

[93stepsawayfromhome]

@hazoplmeught That's what I try to do, yeah.

[lumos]

Ironic how you'd claim that we shouldn't "backlash" those who have a different opinions yet had no problem calling me a chick who crawled out from under a rock. The number of rapes wouldn't increase. Men can already enter any bathroom they want and rape any woman they want, but most choose not to do so. And not because of some law, but because they simply aren't rapists. Not allowing transgenders to use the bathroom they want to use doesn't stop rapists from raping.

[93stepsawayfromhome]

What @lumos said.

[hazoplmeught]

@lumos stopping them would stop masculine men from dressing like females and entering female bathrooms to sexually assault or rape women. In that cas i could go into a female bathroom looking how i look and say im a female

[hazoplmeught]

allowing this would make rape "easier"

[lumos]

@hazoplmeught like I said, nothing is stopping men right now from doing just that. Rapists rape no matter what. I mean, raping is already against the law. What kind of rapist would be all like "ooh can't enter the girls' bathroom, that's illegal" like? What kind of stupid logic is that? Clearly rapists don't give a fuck about laws, so to assume that allowing transgender people to enter the bathroom they feel most comfortable in would somehow escalate the rape statistics is illogical as hell.

[hazoplmeught]

@lumos i clearly said it would make it "easier," rapist dont wanna get caught so they are like "ooh can't enter the girls' bathroom, that's illegal" Thats why they usually rape in the dark at night. If u do it (not sex but grab the girl) in broad daylight ur just a savage. In the privacy of a bathroom, just jam the door (im not a rapist though). Just think about it.

[lumos]

@hazoplmeught actually most rapists don't rape at night in the dark, that's a myth. Most rapists know the victims personally, and it often happens in the victim's (or rapist's) home. Like I said, nothing stops rapists right now from shoving someone into a bathroom and jamming the door. If they're going to do it, they'll do it regardless of what bathroom they're in. Like they might as well shove the girl into the men's bathroom instead. It doesn't make a difference.

[hazoplmeught]

@lumos it was obvious i was talking about stranger rape. Not date rape, friend rape, or what ever. Those people had to be close enough to rape in day. And yes some girls do get shoved into the mens bathroom, but some super horny guy might dress up and go into the womens room. Less suspicion<---- since its accepted now, u know what i mean. I mean i shove a girl into the mens room on the security guards see that whats gonna happen?

[lumos]

@hazoplmeught how many times do I have to tell you that sex offenders will do this regardless of if it's illegal or not? They don't care much about laws or looking suspicious. The fact that public bathrooms don't have any locks or security cameras are making them unsafe as it is, nor are there constantly security guards that are patrolling around them. Literally anyone can do just about anything. Laws don't stop people from raping or sexually assaulting others.

[hazoplmeught]

@lumos yep so just ignore that fact that im a guy and also I've had convos with guys with no morals (not my friends) and u think that u can tell me what i guy would do or rather do. Ok yep you got it

[lumos]

@hazoplmeught how does that even defend your position, though? If anything that's a problem that has nothing to do with transgender people. The fact that, apparently, some guys would go so far that they'd dress up as women to sexually assault women in a bathroom, says a lot more about how fucked up they are. Again, not something transgender people should have to suffer for by not allowing them to use the bathroom. That's a different problem entirely, the root of the problem being fucked up guys who have no respect for women. We would have to stop them with an entirely different approach, such as teaching the point of consent at sex ed in schools. Not prohibit transgender people from using the bathroom they want.

[hazoplmeught]

@lumos you dnt need surgery to be a transgender, you can just identify as a woman and then go into the bathroom. People might say unisex bathrooms in japan (thinking ahead) but they have way less crime because of their society compared to ours

[lumos]

@hazoplmeught where did I state that you need to have a sex reassignment surgery to be transgender?

[hazoplmeught]

@lumos u didn't percievewhat i was saying right. Basically, since you dont need sexual reassignment surgery to identify as transgender, any guy can just walk in and "identify as a female." That would also allow more unwanted consentual sex in bathrooms too lol

[lumos]

@hazoplmeught any guy who truly wanted to enter the ladies' bathroom could do so right now with a good wig/nice clothes and skillfully applied makeup. Changing a law wouldn't change that. And even without the wig and the makeup, nothing still prohibits a guy from just walking in and sexually assaulting whoever he wants at the right moment when no security guards are watching (which is, quite frankly, pretty easy).

[COCOCHANEL]

it's just wrong to appease and coddle individuals with a certain mental illness and not do the same for those with other mental illnesses.

[hazoplmeught]

@lumos A masculine man with facial hair and a buzzcut can be a transgender these days

[randomhobo]

@COCOCHANEL The illness is called gender dysphoria and the only recognised treatment is transition (DSM V). Letting them be who they are neurologically is the what the WHO agrees is the best scenario as no amount of therapy can help. Asking to let them use the correct bathroom or to treat them as the gender they neurologically are is just the same as making arrangements for an ADD child when teaching or taking care not to mess up an OCD individuals ordering. Its just being respectful of what they have and recognising them as people.

[COCOCHANEL]

@randomhobo alright please do not belittle me when i say i plan to have consensual protected sex when my son becomes a legal adult and wants to. don't judge us. please.

[hazoplmeught]

@COCOCHANEL lol this is the funniest ting, im gonna start doing this wheni have no comeback

[COCOCHANEL]

@hazoplmeught oh you think it's funny to make of certain people who aren't protected by a movement?

[COCOCHANEL]

@hazoplmeught *make fun of

[hazoplmeught]

@COCOCHANEL lol its like I/they are deer walking in front of a band of hunters lol

[Stacyzee]

@lumos I believe in giving fair treatment. So, If you talk to me in disrespect don't expect not to get the same treatment in return. The rape will not go up? According to you. Men , cannot enter any bathroom they want ever seen security and cameras? It's clearly not allowed hence the labels. Of course you're blind to see issues because you're on one side of the fence refusing to see anything other than what you believe.

[COCOCHANEL]

@hazoplmeught hunters? i think i'm amongst self-proclaimed human rights activists and i'm begging to be accepted.

[hazoplmeught]

@COCOCHANEL lol i accept u

[COCOCHANEL]

@hazoplmeught thanks. but you never got back to me about whether or not you believe that any judge would award you in a case against a woman you married whom you claimed lied about being a virgin due to having had oral sex in the past (while never having had anything inserted vaginally). please get back to me when you have time.

[hazoplmeught]

@COCOCHANEL oh shoot, my fault. Uhh if she would have to state that she wasn't penetrated vaginally to the guy to get off if i was the judge. She can't be acting innocent while suckin dicks in a school and club bathroom. Nothing wrong with oral sex, but ur not innocent to me if you did. So she is free if she told the dude she is a vaginal virgin, but not if she said virgin in general

[COCOCHANEL]

@hazoplmeught you're not the judge you're the plantiff the person who filed the lawsuit

[hazoplmeught]

@COCOCHANEL if im the plaintiff hell yeah she not a virgin, ya think i paid all them court fees to she her walk away the way she came in lol. My argument her mouth was penetrated and dudes were BUSTIN ALL KINNNDDZZZZ OF NUTZZZ ON HER FACE lol. Imma get my award

[lumos]

I criticized you for claiming to know what it means to be transgender just because you have an acquaintance who is transgender. That's like saying I know what black people go through because I have a black friend. Or that I know what it's like to be disabled since one of my classmates has cerebral palsy. That's simply not true. Claiming that I crawled from under a rock is nowhere near justified. And even if someone does disrespect you, using your logic you shouldn't stoop to their level. Like I said, rapists are already doing something illegal when they rape. Nothing stops them from walking into a bathroom when security isn't looking. Security cameras don't mean jack shit if you, for instance, cover your face. They also don't mean much if nobody is paying attention, and the sexual assault might have already happened by the time security shows up. Nobody is protected in any bathrooms, regardless of any laws.

[randomhobo]

@COCOCHANEL If you want to have consensual and legal sex with your child once he's of age and he hasn't been influenced then go ahead. I'm not sure what this has to do with transgendered stuff as it seems like a red herring more than anything else

[Stacyzee]

@Lumos My transgender acquaintance is only an acquaintance now because I haven't heard from her in sometime. However, I was the one who guided her through her transition process when she had no one else. Her family abandoned her. I was the one who helped her find the right clothing and make up for herself. I was the one who she confided with in secrets. However, with that being said I have every right to my opinion on this issue. She is a normal person, who has a mental illness. If I am schizophrenic and I feel like I should be a duck, does that mean you should treat me like one and I should live on a farm? Use your brain. I am not stooping to your level. I am just dishing the ugly back to you, that you dish out to others. Don't like it? Well, instead of trying to give people advice and lecture them on how they should treat others, take a good look at yourself. There's one word for you 'Ignorant". It means to ignore. You are IGNORING all the possible outcomes of passing that law

[Stacyzee]

because you are desperately believe people should have a world opened up to them based on the way that they feel. Well, I am a duck so put me on a farm. Rachel Dolzeal is a black woman, so from now on she should check off black instead of "white" which she was born. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xujgH_C2q8
The above woman feels she should have been born without a limb perhaps, I should drive her car for her and get her into a car accident so it's possible she can lose her limbs.
I know better yet, why don't we treat her like a disabled person since that's what she wants to be. Why not we install special bathrooms for people outside with body integrity disorder.
You sound absurd, and should really be quiet.

[Stacyzee]

Lets exploit mental illness why don't we? This will "fix" the problem? The person who came to that amazing conclusion is @lumos.

[hazoplmeught]

damn @stacyzee went off, with STRAIGHT FACTS!!! DAMN STACYZEE, BACK AT IT AGAIN WIT THE PRECIOUS LOGIC

[lumos]

You were there for her, but you were not her. Therefore you can never truly understand what it's like, as a bystander. Criticism =/= personal attacks.
As for calling it exploitative, read this. gcnjustin.tumblr.com/.../why-is-a-transgender-person-not-considered-to

[hazoplmeught]

@lumos (i got you @stacyzee) personal attacks? she mentioned how she FIRST HAND helped a transgender person after her FAMILY ABANDONED HER, she brought in analogies to people who falsely believe they are a different race and think they are missing limb. She brought in straight facts and you can't get outta responding that by saying that

[lumos]

@hazoplmeught what does this even have to do with my response?

[hazoplmeught]

@lumos she is a primary research, in simpler terms she would be the most valuable source on a project since she seen it and dealt with it first hand. He is a reliable source

[Stacyzee]

@lumos Perhaps, you should read this www.cnsnews.com/.../johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

[Stacyzee]

@Lumos I never said I was the "transgender" person themselves, but I do have experience with what it is to be transgender due to spending so much time with her. If I am not a nurse, but I care for those who are sick should I just ignore what I have done previously, because I am not the sick themselves? Experience is experience. It is knowledge.

[randomhobo]

@hazoplmeught I am transgender. Using your logic im much more valuable source of research. Also have a degree and a job in psychology, the field which is heavily interested in transgender stuff right now.

[lumos]

Seems like you didn't read the link I posted though since it tackles everything that is explained in that link you just provided. I never said you were the transgender person. I said that your experience as a bystander is not the same as the experience of someone who's actually transgender, therefore you will never truly understand what it's like. Your understanding of what it's like will ALWAYS be secondhand and there will ALWAYS be things you don't understand that has to do with being transgender. @hazoplmeught the most valuable source for a project would be an actual transgender person. Not the friend or acquaintance of one.

[Stacyzee]

@lumos I did read the link you provided and I disagree with it. I doubt you read mine. You are participating in normalizing mental illness. Exploiting it doesn't fix it and only makes it worse. Also, no where in my response did I say I know what it feels like to be transgender. I am not even sure why that is being disputed. Perhaps you just want to try to pick at something for the sake of feeling right rather than comprehending the bigger issue here.

[lumos]

I did read yours. "Trans people already have to have years of therapy from multiple doctors and therapists to get the required letters of recommendation (verification that therapists and doctors have confidence that the person does experience Gender Dysphoria and that they believe that sexual transition would be beneficial to the patient’s mental health) needed to get hormones and SRS (sexual reassignment surgery) and no form of conversion therapy has worked anywhere near consistently. It is just easier (at this point in time, at least) to modify the body to reduce dysphoria than it is to modify the brain to stop dysphoria altogether." That's why. You said "I understand what it means to be transgender". I'm just saying that you don't.

[Stacyzee]

You can understand something without actually being someone. Do you not understand hiv what it can do to you , although you've never had it? Do you not understand a lecture although you were not the instructor themselves? Yes, I understand transgender people , what it means to be one and their struggles. However , that is second hand knowledge and very different from me being the first hand source themselves. I never said that or claimed it either. I read your paragraph in quotes , however my article states the exact opposite. You are normalizing and exploiting those with mental illness. There's people that think they look fat and are 50 lbs, should those who serve food give them a candy bar at lunch because of the way they feel? There's people with body integrity disorder , that feel they should be born without a limb , should society install more handicap bathrooms to account of their mental illness? Etc. There's a lot of mental illnesses where people go off of what they feel

[Stacyzee]

you wouldn't help the problem. I think you should thoroughly read the article I linked it provides excellent points. I will end the discussion here because it will forever be ongoing. We will not see eye to eye. Lets just agree to disagree and remain respectful of eachothers opposing opinions.

[randomhobo]

You do realise the vast majority of research shows that transition is the best way to help those suffering from dysphoria?

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02437545

https://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/162/5/681.short

https://i.imgur.com/uaDQe4g.jpg

Also its something that is seen to be potentially biologically caused. You can't use therapy to change the neurology of someones brain.

https://i.imgur.com/hUCbQyj.png

[hazoplmeught]

really, funny how i learned today in psych that they are always changing treatments to not offend people

[randomhobo]

@hazoplmeught Seeing as psychology is a scientific field, it wouldn't distort itself to cater to someones feelings. The most that has even changed is that from the DSM IV to the DSM V update in the manual changed the name from Gender Identity Disorder to Gender Dysphoria, to try and reduce the stigma of disorder in the name. But please, tell me how they change treatments to not offend people when it's been transition for a long amount of time as it is.

[hazoplmeught]

@randomhobo "Gender Identity Disorder to Gender Dysphoria, to try and reduce the stigma of disorder in the name." you just explained how they change stuff not to offend. Also its change to suit "society's new likes (caitlyn/bruce jenner has money so hhe hot a one hour special to brainwash people). Its kinda how they put a fat girl on the cover on "------>sports<-------- illustrated" because society thought showing fit girls is "fat shaming".

[randomhobo]

@hazoplmeught Don't try and strawman my argument. You said " funny how i learned today in psych that they are always changing treatment" So how have they changed the treatment?

[hazoplmeught]

@randomhobo as @stacyzee said, they used to tell them to adapt to their current gender, but now psychologist would recieve backlash for that so they have to go with whatever society says. In this case tell them to get the surgery

[randomhobo]

@hazoplmeught That was nothing to do with society and was to do with research. Techniques evolve other time to better reflect treatments. You're line of argument can literally be used to argue that taking vaccinations is only accepted by the medical community now instead of hoping the magic sky father protects you because society says to do it to avoid backlash. Also they don't even tell you anything as an individual. It is entirely your own choice, you sign numerous consent forms, go through a year of therapy to get hormones.

[hazoplmeught]

@randomhobo psychology and the medical field is different. Its more like whites dnt use the word negro or n** (im black so dont even try the racist comeback) because of society backlash. Or using the word faggot for a gay person

[randomhobo]

@hazoplmeught Umm psychology and medical fields are very much interlinked. What do you think clinical psychology even is? The medical treatment of psychological issues and disorders.

[hazoplmeught]

@randomhobo im talking about cough cough physically sick and major depressive disorder mental psychology, obviously

[randomhobo]

@hazoplmeught The medical field is varied and includes many things in it. Psychology does link to the medical field and crosses over in certain aspects.

[hazoplmeught]

@randomhobo u know what im talking about. I know that certain things like medical treatment to restore non epinephrine and seritonin level in the brain for depressoin and using medications that with chemicals that resemble dopamine to block to receptors to prevent schizophrenic and other psychotic outbreaks. I know but u know what im trying to say, non medical psychology dealing with ideas (like psychopaths and sociopaths or some other personality disorder)

[randomhobo]

@hazoplmeught Point being? Science says that transition is the best solution to stopping dysphoria that we have at the moment. Transition is a medical cure as it requires pills, supplements and endocrinologist support.

[hazoplmeught]

@randomhobo best solution to stopping dysphoria, is to do what the dysphoria "wants" you to do, or really, that sounds cool. Since u claimed ur a transgender, would u tell a guy b4 u get wit him

[randomhobo]

@hazoplmeught It may be what the dysphoria wants but unfortunately its all we've got. I would have loved to be able to just make it stop. Being trans is not fun, its a nightmare and just to be able to accept my old self would have made life easier. But i tried that for 3 years and it didn't work. And of course i would, i tell guys im going to date literally on the first date or even before that.

[COCOCHANEL]

@randomhobo it matters because it's unfair and intolerant of open-minded people to accept and fight for the rights of certain sexual ”deviants” while being against others like those who participate in incest and beastiality,

[randomhobo]

@COCOCHANEL 1) Transexual is not a sexual deviant, it is a psychological condition and deviant as a word has poor connotations. 2) I'm for incest, between 2 legally consenting adults that are not pressuring or have groomed each other. Offspring i think is the issue so i don't think incest offspring should be allowed but thats a grey area. For beastiality i side on the caution of consent. How can an animal give good consent and what are the health risks to humans for participating in such acts. I'm undecided on where i stand on this issue but i'm open enough to accept it.

[WhereAmI]

Seems like "today's mental illness is tomorrow's social norm". I should put that phrase on a plaque and mount it outside my office.

[COCOCHANEL]

@randomhobo the British refer to it as sexual deviation. i decided to adopt the phrase recently after having discussions about this with a British friend. both he and an American male friend, while supporting gays/transsexuals, reacted negatively and even tried to shame me when i mentioned what i want to do with my son. gag is full of the same. i. m tired of the bs about child abuse and/or offspring. i stated that both do not apply in my case and may not apply even to most cases. why do i even have to explain this? it's pretty obvious that people are brainwashed by the media and jump on the bandwagon without thinking about it deeply. so much hypocrisy.

[randomhobo]

@COCOCHANEL I'm British and i don't hear people refer to it like that at all. And yeh people are brainwashed by the media, i recall reading stats that since caitlyn came out violence has gone up 600% against trans people just because before nobody knew or cared. But now its being made forefront. I think we can both agree that a live and let live policy can work for this overall? If not agree to disagree?

[COCOCHANEL]

@randomhobo i have never met a single person who's against gays/transsexuals enough to even say it let alone be violent against them. most people are open with saying they are against incest and ridiculing it. all or nothing. that's my stance. it's gotta be fair.

[randomhobo]

@COCOCHANEL I literally don't even know what the point your trying to make is anymore. The world isn't all or nothing, its not black and white

[COCOCHANEL]

@randomhobo i'm saying that it's not right to ridicule some while supporting others. you might be open-minded enough to say that incest and beastiality are ok but many people aren't.

[randomhobo]

@COCOCHANEL I don't think anyone should be ridiculed. Its just pointless and serves no purpose.

[falafelany1]

So because you have an acquaintance who is transgender you know? I doubt that. It is not a mental illness. If someone told you that you were a man when you think and feel and look like a woman, you would feel hurt and think the other person is crazy. You cannot tell people how to feel.

[Stacyzee]

Look, you're coming to me with an empty opinion. You're coming to me with what you "think" should happen but you haven't the brain ability to see the negativity that could result from passing that law. So , if we let transgender people have their own bathroom because they feel like a different sex, then give others with mental illness the same rights based on what they "feel". Anorexics feel fat. Those with body integrity disorder feel they should lose their limbs. Transracial people feel a different race other than what they were born. We should just pass a whole bunch of laws to accommodate for those with mental illness. We live let our children grow up in a society where this is normalized. We should have rapist have easier access to bathrooms of their choice. You aren't smart. I am glad you aren't a person of authority. I clearly stated I have a transgender friend and I know her struggles because I helped her through it all. So don't tell me what I know when u weren't t

[Stacyzee]

there

[Rainie_]

The thing is... I can't see anyone on the toilet in female bathrooms... There are walls around the toilet and a door. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? I could understand a changing room tough, BUT BATHROOM? Really now... 🙄😐

[sluggognatface]

Best answer on this subject I have seen on Gag so far.

[jacquesvol]

Best answer indeed

[talloak]

The transgendered are now the last group in America where discrimination against them is fully protected by the law. As with all discrimination, the perpetrators blame the victims. They pretend this discrimination is to protect public safety. They actually argue that a trans-woman would go to the trouble and abuse of living full-time as female for the quick thrill of seeing the inside of the women's bathroom! They treat them as non-human. Trans-women are routinely murdered because of their identity. Their murders are seldom investigated because "they had it coming." Changing the laws to ban discrimination will not end all the hate crimes. However they will not diminish as long as they remain legal.

[vonasaurus]

i see gender identity and biological sex as two separate entities. trans people aren't hurting anyone by using the bathroom that matches their gender identity, so leave them alone already.

/von's 2 cents.

any "fears" that people have about trans people being sexual predators are unfounded, likely the fear-mongering work of the "religious right". i read an article recently that stated no such crimes have ever been committed by trans individuals, so transphobia is pretty baseless.

it's 2016; the fact that segregation is even a thing is pretty sad.

[randomhobo]

Transgendered people should be allowed to use the bathrooms of choice, we've been doing it for bloody ages and noone noticed until the conservatives made us the newest boogie monsters to rally support against to distract from the fact they just waste time on pointlessness.

As for those saying its a mental illness, well yes dysphoria is recognised as such and the recognised treatment is transition- counselling and therapy doesn't help (i went through a year of it and it did bugger all apart from make me worse).

Most of the time you'd never even notice if someone is trans or not, so long as started young. The fact that the few times you do makes you think everyone looks like that is confirmation bias.

[Curmudgeon]

Oh please. If anyone pushed this issue, it was the Left. If somehow you really *did* "pass" for female, no one objected to your using the ladies room (or vice versa). But then that is the point, isn't it? Gender must be bent.

[randomhobo]

@Curmudgeon I do pass and people don't object to me using the bathroom, same for many others. My point is that that is the case for quite a few of us and people are only objecting recently because of the right wing wanting another thing to focus on now that gay marriage is legal.

[ImagineRelease]

North Carolina Got it Right... Gender Identity SHOULD be amended on your birth certificate. Meaning you will ALWAYS dress and behave as that identity. as such once you do that you CAN use the restroom of your choice. BUT makes people choose who they are. You're either living as a man or a woman. Make it final, get it on the Birth Certificate.

Anyone "serious" has no right to use their former restroom because clearly if it's your "identity" why would you?

Pick one, mark it final, stay the hell out of the old one. But pretending you're a woman today and a man tomorrow is nothing more than a mental disorder.

[Ratiocinative]

The importance of the issue is that men are "predatory" when it comes to sex. Men are the ones who seek out sex, which is not bad thing when it is welcomed by the woman, but it also means that women are going to feel extremely uncomfortable when they're in a vulnerable situation such as restroom with their pants down and a strange man is in the next stall. Just ask a woman, especially an attractive one, how many times she's had guys make unwelcome advances on her and how she'd feel alone in a restroom with a guy. Not much different then if they was walking through an alley alone. Being assaulted is not something us guys really worry about too much, but women are naturally a lot weaker than men and it is something they have to worry about.

Trying to deny this fact and misdirect the argument into one about hate or discrimination just makes you look like even more of an idiot than you already do by misquoting a bunch of things from the Bible. I realize there are people who may have been born one gender but from outward appearances look like the other, and I'm not saying I have all the answers, but clearly you have no clue what you're talking about. Sex and gender is not a social construct. That's why in 2012 there were about 20 convicted male sex offenders for every female sex offender. Men are more aggressive, it's biology.

[lumos]

I don't see why they wouldn't be allowed to use the bathroom of the gender they identify as. First off, it's petty and stupid to assume that this would somehow end up with cis-people getting harassed by the transgender people (I'm thinking it's more likely to be the other way around to be honest). Second, as it is right now, very few public bathrooms are actually locked somehow, which means that anyone can enter them whenever they want. Nothing is stopping anyone from going into the bathrooms now to harass those inside. Why make the assumption that things would escalate simply for letting transgender people use the bathroom of the gender they identify as? Better yet, why even make the assumption that transgender people are violent perverts who only want to use the bathroom to harass others? Newsflash: they just want to use the bathroom like everyone else. Deal with it. This will literally not change anything, except give more rights to those who deserve it.

[93stepsawayfromhome]

This, pretty much.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Thank you! As usual, Lumos hits the nail on the head.

[BambooforPanda]

@BuchitaBuchys No she shines a light on it XD

[93stepsawayfromhome]

@BambooforPanda https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zXDo4dL7SU

[Northeast106]

www.nbclosangeles.com/.../...stroom-207541101.html

Well you would think so. Single occupancy restrooms, a simple solution for a childish problem

[EllieLexis513]

@Northeast106 I think people are deluded, too. I doubt a transgender is going to molest children in a restroom. First, why would your child use the restroom unattended? Anyone under 10 needs to be supervised by an adult, at the very least. Second, I've never heard of anyone being in danger from transgender people. If anything, they are the ones who are getting beat up and picked on, especially the men who want to be and/or look like women. I'm not necessarily for this change, but it's not the end of the world to me if it happens. There's other things to worry about in this country and bathrooms aren't one of them.

[Northeast106]

@EllieLexis513 Unisex single occupancy restrooms make sense for everyone. People should have privacy and security in the restroom, besides its better to have a whole restroom for yourself when you do your business. It's not hard to factor into construction, hotels can have 4+ floors of guest rooms each with a restroom. No more men's restrooms, no more female restrooms. Someone will always be uncomfortable about it. This solves the problem for everyone, regardless of how they view the issue.

[FlamingoHunter]

They shouldn't be allowed to use the bathroom they identify with because of how easily this could be used and abused (by trans and non-trans alike). Anyone could come up with any gender they please and then make it problematic and uncomfortable for many others. There is quite a lot already restricting people from just entering as they please. It's called social obedience. Social obedience is so powerful it can be the difference between a nation of Nazi control and one that isn't. Look up studies of obedience and you'll understand how powerful social norms are. So, let's just keep it to what actually works. Male, female, and single bathrooms. It works, it's good, and anyone that doesn't accept this can enjoy their private bathroom at home. The only way they will get safer is when one decides not to use the public bathroom or we keep our society focused on high standards. Pity over what you decide to shove your penis in shouldn't be something the world stops turning for.

[Ninjaorbes]

Why? They are overdoing this shit.. men are men and women are women. If a person identifies as a man then let them go into man. If women describe themselves as women sex change or naturally born one let them be in that bathroom.. why separate people from people.. because in the end thats all we really are.. people the only separation is gender man and women just 2 we all fit under 1 of those categories a trans is a person transitioning from one gender to another.. still a person

[Geometry]

I think it depends on how far ones transformation is. Even if you separate sex and gender, separation of bathrooms is because of sex not gender. So it's entirely dependant on how far you are in the change. This is coming from a religious person by the way. As for why people may be discriminating against transgender people, you said it yourself only.03% of America identifies as transfer gender. While 700,000 is a big number 320,000,000 is way bigger. Some people may not even know that some people want to change their gender or sex or whatever you want to call it. What transgender people need is advertising. Once people know more about transgender people, rules can be made or changed. A little information goes a long ways.

[BuchitaBuchys]

I agree, but this site is extremely conservative, with a few popular members who are liberal and accepting. So prepare to get hated on, by folks who have very little to no clue, aside from Wikipedia "research", of what they're talking about.

[QuestionMan]

I'd have to say it's refreshing to see so many people against it. If I spoke out against it publicly I could get fired from my job, kicked out of school and be completely ostracized.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan I don't agree as I'm against discrimination.

[QuestionMan]

Well it's not discrimination when you want to treat people with mental illnesses.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan who says it's mental illnesses? Homosexuality was considered a mental illness.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan I know for many people on this site who are sheltered af, it's hard to imagine discrimination based on what you were born. But it's real. This is why I'm against it.

[QuestionMan]

I used to believe homosexuality was a mental illness but further research has led me to the conclusion that it is a birth defect.
Well it's called Gender Identity Disorder so yes it is a mental illness.
www.nytimes.com/.../overview.html
There is a lot of research done into this illness sadly a lot of it is covered up through political correctness and campaigns for acceptance. You'll probably hear the term Gender Dysphoria which simply means that "people feel uncomfortable in their body".
To me if someone had cancer and instead of trying to treat it the person said "This is who I am now and I will embrace it" I would be shocked and try to convince the person to seek help. This is no different.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan but cancer is deadly. Trans isn't.

[QuestionMan]

Trans have a higher rate of post op suicide and contracting other mental illnesses.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan that's probably more because of how society treats them. I mean, there are places you can get fired just for being trans.

[QuestionMan]

Well then don't become trans. Get help.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan ignore who they are to conform to society? Interesting.

[QuestionMan]

Tell me, if you had a kid that told you he was pikachu would you take him seriously? Now imagine that kid is 20 years old now and still thinks he's pikachu. Wouldn't you want him to get help?

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan but there are actual brain scans that show that their brains are "wired" like that of the sex they identify with. I'm sure there are no brain scans to show they are more similar to Pikachu than humans.

[QuestionMan]

Then let's fix them so they identify with the body they're born with.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan and how well do these "fixes" work. Just like the "gay therapy", very unsuccessful.

[QuestionMan]

Gay therapy was a bunch of bible thumpers yelling at gays and using electric shock. If they truly wanted to turn gays straight they would study what causes homosexuality and try to counteract it through medication. It's not a choice, it's a birth defect. Honestly idc about gays. Less competition plus I like bisexual girls. Transgender people suffer from a mental illness, that can needs to be treated with medication. Yelling at them and dehumanizing them doesn't change their condition which is why these "gay therapy" places were made illegal.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan how about instead of "fixing" people, we let them decide. And don't compare it to cancer as, again, this is not deadly.

[QuestionMan]

Mentally ill people cannot be allowed to make decisions concerning their own safety. If someone started cutting themselves and a good samaritan noticed he/she would rush in to stop the person. The person cutting themselves would be put in a facility that could cater to their needs and try to help them get better. Same with transgenders, they would be provided with care until they're better.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan but they aren't hurting themselves!

[QuestionMan]

Hmm let's see who are they hurting? 1) Their bodies by mutilating them to the extreme 2) Their place in society since they turn into some weird deformity 3) Their friends and family 4) Their coworkers

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan 1. Do you feel that way about those getting boob jobs, nose jobs, etc? 2. That's more of an issue with society, not them. 3. Again, that's the other persons issues, not the trans person. 4. I'm just repeating myself unnecessarily now

[QuestionMan]

1. You're comparing an extreme case to something that isn't as significant. Piercings do not fundamentally change the person's body. It remains the same just with metal in it. A boon job is also a small adjustment. A trans surgery however requires hormonal treatment as well as a transformation of the genetilia. The person only retains their organs while everything on the outside changes. 2 +. "It's society that's wrong" Who decides when a society is right or wrong? What criteria do you use to determine a just society?

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan 1. Some of these transformations men and women do are extreme. You can't even recognize the person. 2. I don't know, I guess when a person isn't treated like a person more of an outcast?

[QuestionMan]

1. If you're referring the people that tattoo their whole body and others, those people are just looking for attention and are harming their body in the process. 2. By that logic criminals should do as they please otherwise we'd be infringing on their freedom of choice. There's consequences for every action and inaction.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan but criminals are hurting others, trans folk aren't

[QuestionMan]

Please refer to points 2-5. Emotional harm is also bad.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan we'll just have to agree to disagree because we're both hard headed, especially me lol

[QuestionMan]

Lol glad you can be respectful about it.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan sarcasm?

[QuestionMan]

No I'm serious. It takes a really mature person to say this. Most people would just whine until one person blocks the other.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan I never block lol I'm blocked by lots of guys mostly. I don't back down! But I'd rather just agree to disagree now because you might block me lol

[QuestionMan]

Nah, I like you. You're a good person even though I disagree with you. It's not the opinions that matter bu the character of the individual.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan lol I get that a lot. Thanks, you're a swell fella, despite us mostly disagreeing

[QuestionMan]

I'm sure we can find a couple of things we agree on.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@QuestionMan probably only that Kim K is hot lol

[QuestionMan]

Haha she was hot but now she's too exposed. Not interesting anymore

[Mekkalyn]

@QuestionMan I agree with your well thought out points 100%.

[QuestionMan]

Thanks @Mekkalyn

[jadexo]

I can maybe understand the logic that allowing transgender women into women's bathrooms, and vice versa, could be exploited to harrass people, as there are no cameras inside.

However, anyone can exploit the lack of cameras in bathrooms. Female-on-female abuse and male-on-male abuse can still occur, and while men aren't allowed to go into women's bathrooms, they can still physically go in and harass women.

[Cryostatic]

It's fucking moot, because the vast majority of companies already have this policy in place anyway.

www.thedailybeast.com/.../...endly-businesses.html

www.12news.com/.../158399819

[OlderAndWiser]

Everyone who opposes this idea is not motivated by hate. That is an indication of your bias.

[duvexy]

Just wait to the new civil rights discrimination lawsuits that will be formed when these transgenered people will file, because these will cry that they can't go into the restrooms that they so desire, because they were descirimated against. They have been going into restrooms for decades with no problems. It is all about MONEY and bleeding America dry.

[KattFeesh]

Your post is too short it doesn't explain everything. I would add another 10,000 words. And then waste the government's money putting up transgender bathrooms into different categories those with blonde hair and those with brown hair. I would force those with black hair to make a decision by posting another 20,000 word question on gag

[DianeDuffus]

Now there intelligent young lady who understands what's going on.

[FauxGirlNikki]

a person SHOULD be able to tell if a person is portraying the other gender for pervy reasons or not by the overall image they project. an ACTUAL transgender will have god knows how much time researching and studying how to make themselves as presentable as the chosen sex (ie makeup, posture, manerism, body grooming) as to where a straight up perv would give off the image of a straight up guy in a dress (no attempt at all to be seen as the opposite sex). and all that aside, they should just allow the people to use the bathroom they choose and report any one who does anything perverted in nature, whether someone going into a bathroom as cis or trans. if a trans simply walks into the bathroom uses said bathroom, washes and leaves... what is it hurting?

[princess88126]

I disagree. If one is transitioning into a woman, they should be able to use the WOMEN'S bathroom, because that's who they are, and vice versa.

[godfatherfan]

It is sad but our society is not ready for this kind of issue. if you have a penis, you don't belong in the womens bathroom. Nobody made you dress up like a woman. I understand you want to "be yourself". but until you get a sex change operation, your a man. Already there are places like Planet fitness that have men using the womens bathroom so they can watch women shower.
now, honestly, if people were not so hung up on themselves, they would just have co-ed bathrooms. I am much more weirded out by a guy seeing my dick then a woman. I really don't care if a woman looks at me.
so unless your going to just have unisex bathrooms, stick to the policy of checking between your legs and using the appropriate bathroom.

[EllieLexis513]

I'm against it, but not because those people are gay or anything. I just don't want to share a bathroom with a man is all. If you have the complete sex change, I can understand that. But I want some privacy as a woman away from men.

I think there should be transgender restrooms that are separate from men and women restrooms. Transgenders should be allowed to feel comfortable and safe in a restroom, but so do I.

[DianeDuffus]

We should have seven types of bathrooms to accommodate everyone. Just borrow the money from China

[EllieLexis513]

@DianeDuffus I wasn't aware there were 7 different types of people who need it. But since you were attempting to be witty (and failed, mind you), the purpose for gender separate bathrooms is because it's based on your gender. Transgender isn't male or female. So, by definition, they really should have their own separate restroom.

[DianeDuffus]

Sorry I didn't meet your qualifications for humor. You have enlightened me I will jump off a bridge now

[EllieLexis513]

@DianeDuffus Again, a failure at wit. Nice try though.

[lumos]

Transgender =/= gay.

[hazoplmeught]

@lumos it does if you switch to attract the other gender (some do this)

[lumos]

@hazoplmeught... lol?

[hazoplmeught]

@lumos ur never heard of that? open ur eyes and look around lol Think about it though most people especially guys aren't gay (why there are 3 times more male to female transgenders). But there are more gay/flexible (go both ways/would do it for certain girls)

[hazoplmeught]

u didn't think about that did u?

[gotc147]

Typical left-wing ignorant drivel.

Christians and conservatives don't care if men want to dress like and act like women, they don't even care if you feel so strongly that you're a woman that you got surgery to get as close to a woman as possible (though thanks to DNA and bone structure, still remain a man). They DO care however, if you're writing loopholes into law that allow sexual predators easy access.

Sexual predators typically start out as peeping Tom's, they evolve over time to breaking and entering, stealing intimate items and eventually, contact with their victims, who they sometimes kill.

And that doesn't even touch on perverts recording women showering without their knowledge, as happened in Toronto recently.

Not everything is about you, sometimes it's about basic public safety and common decency.

[BillyTheMountain]

It's not the transgendered people who are the problem.

It is the sexual deviants who are going to use this as an excuse to get their jollies by going into the opposite sex's restrooms or locker rooms.

I predict it will become a new teen sport, by the way...

[Outofthegrey]

Frankly I don't care. You keep yourself to yourself, I'll do the same. We don't need to be in everyone else's business.

[Spiorad_Aisce]

Great take and I agree totally with your point of view but would not a third option gender neutral bath/locker rooms be useful as stepping stones. I understand your frustration but behind the histrionic sometimes bigoted protests there are genuine concerns for some people. The gender neutral option assuage their fears and hopefully as the world matures the need for the third option declines. For example homosexuality up to 50 years ago was taboo now it has mainstream acceptance who knows transgenderism in 50 years time could be as acceptable as homosexuality is today.

[SwoopingHawk]

I think that the way we treat transgendered people in this society is a tragedy. Folks like my uncle (man who identifies as woman) are confused, they need serious mental help, not to be egged on in their delusion. Some people are born with a Y chromosome, and some without, and if there's confusion over the subject, the answer is love and therapy, not "tolerance" and mutilation. Perhaps institutionalization was mishandled back in the days, but instead of making it easier to get folks into the wrong bathroom, we need to make it easier to get them the right help. Maybe that could be like in-home assisted living, where the help comes to the person receiving the help, obviously transgendered people aren't generally a physical threat to society. But at the end of the day, people who are gender confused need to be given every possible aid to help live a full life free of confusion and mutilation, not to be willfully accepted as-is in the name of "tolerance".

[ClassicRocker]

Shawn and others like him should just be allowed to use the men's room. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be.
I do question the decision to allow him to enter a bodybuilding competition. I would imagine that he is on hormone therapy. The only way would be to ensure that his hormone levels were monitored to ensure that it never goes above what a born-male would typically have.

[Blonde401]

Trans people should be allowed to use the bathroom that they're comfortable with. It shouldn't go beyond that, people need to deal with that.

[DianeDuffus]

There is too much garbage revolving around this topic. Too much touchy-feely. I feel like I'm a guy, no that was Friday this is Tuesday I feel like am a woman with the result being that all the liberals all the left all the crazy people think you should change choice of bathrooms on a daily basis. "But that's how I feel." What a crock. It is interesting that I wrote a paper in college warning of what I called, "Too Much Democracy in the United States." Individual freedom should not be used as justification for 3+4 = 27. That is incorrect. "But that's how I feel. It should be 27." Attention – there will be a protest rally at the United Nations 2 PM this coming Friday as we advocate 3+4 = 27. The new fantastic folk rock group, "The Toenails will be performing as part of this protest there's still time to change your vote. " That is how society in the United States slowly disintegrates everybody gets a trophy everybody's a winner. That brings me to transgender bathrooms.
Whatever your genetic makeup is that is the bathroom to which you are assigned.. I don't care how you feel I don't care if you feel 3+4 = 27 or that your clitoris is really a penis with stunted growth – accuse me vertically challenged or horizontally challenged.

[Shpongolia]

Only if they are post-operation sex change should they be allowed to use the restroom of their non biological gender. Seriously though, only about 1% of the population is transgender, and most people who want to use the other gender's changing room are creeps and threatening perverts anyway. Tell me why we need to spend billions of dollars to add a 3rd bathroom in public buildings to accommodate 1% oft he population.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2dBpR36VFQM

[RexCatholicissimus]

I think transgendered "people" in general need to stop being babied so much, since their very existence comes from a poor place and state of mind.

[Rissyanne]

It is very simple... if you got a penis... use the men's room. If you have a vagina... use the ladies' room.

[JosefK]

.. if you are dressed as a woman and look like a woman but have a penis?

[FlamingoHunter]

@JosefK Then look for a single bathroom, wait for a bathroom to be empty and use a stall, or use the bathroom at home. The world doesn't stop turning for my problems, why should it change for others because one week they want to shove their dick into a man and the next the woman? Should we force everyone to change their diets because a small percentage of the population is diabetic?

[Rissyanne]

@JosefK I dont think anyone is going to be looking into the stall. But I personally dont want to go into the ladies room and see a big hairy man in there... sorry.

[Rissyanne]

@FlamingoHunter Very well put..

[Beautybynature]

SO A RAPIST CAN WEAR A WIG AND SAY he's TRANSGENDER AND IF U DONT LIKE IT.. UR HOMOPHOBIC!
this is bullcrap! they should have their own bathroom! not mix with women! i do not want to see this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZnl3XrMU9Y

[ObscuredBeyond]

Keep in mind: the top leader in North Carolina that wanted to make all bathrooms gender-neutral turned out to be a man with a lengthy history as a convicted sex offender. Respectable gender-confusion strugglers will put up with the struggle, or seek counseling, for the benefit of others. They don't demand that others bend over to take it in the rear for them. Predators do that. The current craze of demanding gender-neutral bathrooms is not being pushed by those with emotional stress. It's being pushed by predators who want carte blanche to prey on others. And the worst ones don't have enough money to gain this much traction in terms of lobbying. So that invites the question: who's supplying them with money for lobbying, and what is the creditor's real agenda?

[jacquesvol]

@Beautybynature Can you give a link to a transgender who raped in a womans' restroom?

[jacquesvol]

@ObscuredBeyond A link to details about that person, please. Thanks

[hazoplmeught]

@jacquesvol www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...g-teenage-girl-man.html
@obsurebeyond i got u man

[hazoplmeught]

and of course the majority of a certain group would do that or have the balls to do that. Ex: most psychopaths dont kill

[jacquesvol]

@hazoplmeught That'UK news, not N Carolina

[hazoplmeught]

@jacquesvol no matter where they are from, they are still human beings. Also only.04 of US population is trans, so if transgender news is making so many headlines, somebody has to be faking it

[hazoplmeught]

think about that last comment i made though, only.04 but every news sourse mentions them

[jacquesvol]

@hazoplmeught "if transgender news is making so many headlines, somebody has to be faking it ". if transgender news is making so many headlines, a part of the public has to be buying it. If nobody buys the news, it's no news.

[jacquesvol]

@hazoplmeught I quote: "and two friends and had gone drinking in a garage which had a sofa and chairs in it."
Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...g-teenage-girl-man.html
Should transgenders have their own transgender garages because of that single crime? ;-)

[hazoplmeught]

@jacquesvol i think both are true though, hmm i guess we could agree to disagree

[hazoplmeught]

hold up we posed at same time let me read

[hazoplmeught]

@jacquesvol they shouldn't, but it shows we should have precautions set up just in case. You dnt wait for a serial killer to kill before you set up security measures

[jacquesvol]

@hazoplmeught You cannot take precautions against every thing that ever happened.

[hazoplmeught]

@jacquesvol you might not but i would i would for every ---->serious issue

[jacquesvol]

@hazoplmeught That fake scare has been debunked here: mediamatters.org/.../198533

[hazoplmeught]

@jacquesvol only.03 of pop is trans and of tht.03 percent nothing happened. Also most case would probably come from non transgender who acted as female

[jacquesvol]

@hazoplmeught Safety mesures?
An armed guard in every restroom?
Armed guards too commit crimes: nypost.com/.../
Who will take precautions against raping guards? Which precautions?

[hazoplmeught]

@jacquesvol only precaution would be agianst men entering women's bathrooms. A masculine man with facial hair and a buzzcut can be a transgender these days

[beautifulangel76]

I believe that transgendered people have something mentally wrong with them. They have multiple surgeries and do hormone therapies and other things which is not natural so I dot get why it is looked at as such. Again they do all this stuff but at the end of the day they are still whatever they were born as. I think this is why there is a law against them entering the wrong bathroom. You honestly can't always tell that the person is transgender anyway mainly if it was a female to male transition. And what you said about Christians and the bible for one simply stating the truth isn't judging anyone and if we were to say something it means we care. And God made us in his own image so for me to say oh I'm actually a guy is saying that he made a mistake but the God I know makes NO mistakes. Religious or not being transgender is clearly a mental disorder or something is clearly wrong with people to make them feel this way.

[Sunflower19]

Agreed

[beautifulangel76]

@Sunflower19 I mean its very obviously that something is wrong but society looks at it as a good thing. I can't wait until God comes. These people are crazy

[abundantlyrich]

They should use the unisex bathroom to avoid further problems with other people.

[ObscuredBeyond]

Exactly. We've had unisex bathrooms for years. But for predators, that isn't good enough. Because unisex bathrooms protect privacy. And that's the rub with them.

[JRICHARDS1996]

I am wholly and unequivocally opposed to Target allowing transgender people into the bathrooms of the gender that they identify with. It has nothing to do with them being bad people or passing a moral judgment, but about discerning truth from falsehood and in the process affirming the former. And the truth is that chromosomes do not lie. No matter how much a trans person may feel like the opposite gender, they are not the opposite gender. And that is true regardless of how you politicize it. The finest rhetoric in the world cannot change a single iota of established scientific fact. And frankly the only reason this (re) education insanity has gotten so far is because of political correctness, everyone being afraid of offending everyone else. But the truth is true regardless of how we feel about it. And that truth is that men are men and women are women as confirmed by biology. Nurture is rooted in nature, so likewise gender is rooted in sex. Society only reinforces that which is already there. So while it is good and holy to feel compassionate toward the trans community, I can never accept or agree with that which I know is false. Emotion does not change truth. And if you want my opinion, this whole trans movement is just another way for the Left to rebel against the Creator. They hate normalcy because they are rebellious by their very nature. So they try to pervert and redefine it to fit their own agenda, as if they knew better than God.

[howzit2015]

I think the only way we are going to solve this conundrum is by making everyone go use a private bathroom that is sex neutral...

[Browneyes33]

I don't think transgender should be able to use any bathroom they associate themselves to be. Just because there's perverts out like. And if we allow anyone to use the bathroom they please. This allows perverted men to dress like women and go in to the ladies bathrooms. The rape crime will go up. I will no longer be using public bathrooms. If this goes into play.
Just because you had a sex change and you say you're a girl doesn't mean you are a girl. You can have as many surgeries as you desire. You can't change DNA. You can have your penis cut off and walk around and say I'm a girl. But, DNA doesn't lie. It will always show your gender.

I'm a girl. DNA says I'm a girl. i was born with a V and I have boobs. like it should be.

[93stepsawayfromhome]

Why do you get to decide how it should be?

[93stepsawayfromhome]

And by the way, DNA shows one's sex. It never has shown and never will show one's gender.

[Browneyes33]

@93stepsawayfromhome ok... my point made. You can "choose" whatever gender you want to be... but, like you said DNA will show your sex if you are a boy or girl. I'm not saying I get to choose how it should be. I just think there needs to be a bathroom for boys and girls. Like it's always been.

[TinyDancingBean]

I am Christian but I support trans gender peoples what people do with there life's is non of my business so why would I care as long as they aren't hating on me for my religion I'm not going to hate on them for anything I may not have the same opinion as them but I can respect that people are different what I'm tiered of is the fact people feel the need to call out Christianity when not all Christians are judgmental and not all anti-gay/trans/bi people are Christian. I love all people the way they are and if they feel happier if they are different then how they are born i support them as long as they change for themselves and not anyone else. Yes I take my religion seriously I take all aspects of the bible seriously including the part where God was all like "Thou shalt not judge."

[Prof_Don]

A segregated bathroom for transgenders is a horrible idea. Just because someone was "born in the wrong body", doesn't mean they should be forced to use a segregated bathroom.

It isn't their fault that they were "born in the wrong body" and want to live their lives with their internal, correct gender identity.

[Prof_Don]

It is better to have transgenders use the bathroom for the gender they currently identify with, rather than to 1) have businesses pay for the infrastructure to make another bathroom [money doesn't grow on trees], or 2) have ALL bathrooms be open access by all genders

[KLTheErudite7229]

I honestly think it will solve the problem if there are "unisex" restrooms.

[Northeast106]

Simple solution for another first world problem. Single, occupancy restrooms. It doesn't matter if you have 2 penises, 3 vaginas, and a pair of tentacles. One person, in the restroom, at a time. Stores should start building maybe 4 to 6 single room bathrooms and call it a day. Construction is probably cheaper than lawsuits.

[JustADude20026]

One day the world will collapse on its self how goddam pc it is

[SnowHearth]

Make them their own bathroom.

[jacquesvol]

Why? @SnowHearth

[amy-louise-H]

If its a man who wants to live his life as a woman then its fine. If its a man who just enjoys dressing up for sexual gain then no.

The problem is we wouldn't be able to tell which type they are, unless they get their clit out hahaha

[untotal]

Actually there's a very distinct difference between the two. Transgender women are women that were born with an extra Y chromosome, while transvestites are men that dress up as women for sexual pleasure. You'll find that very few transvestites dress up outside of the bedroom or whatever sexual situation they're in, like a party. You won't see any actively wearing women's clothing in target lmao. Hope this didn't come off as an attack on you? I just thought you might be interested in the difference because of your last sentence lol

[amy-louise-H]

@untotal Its fine and thanxs for the info, tbh I haven't got a clue why a man would want to be a woman as men have it so much easier. But what do i know xxx

[meanyReyd]

@untotal we dont see that y chromosome in the bathroom, you know. we see a man with cock and he needs to gtfo. i dont care which type of extra chromosome he has, he is a man.

[untotal]

@meanyReyd lol at the fact that you think whatever a person is pissing out of affects you in any way. Trust me, trans women in the bathroom are just trying to pee in peace, not terrify your delicate sensibilities or some bullshit like that. Plus a lot of trans women have had sex reassignment surgery so check your facts - not all of them have dicks. I'm not looking into getting into an argument with you, just pointing out that as long as someone is just peeing or taking a shit in an enclosed bathroom stall, it shouldn't be any of your business.

[meanyReyd]

@untotal im not sensible, in fact i dont give a shit where they pee. as long as they dont do it in women's bathroom, being a bilogical man. trying to make laws that fit them, its them being too sensible.

[bluenose1872]

Jesus. We'll be goin there there to paedophiles next. You can't make everybody happy. We were never meant to. Some people get it smooth others get it rough. It all comes with benefits. These clowns in charge. The bureaucrats I mean just want to be radical and justify their salaries so they rock the boat as much as possible. This race wants to progress it should go to old fashioned values that got us here in the first place. After that throw every fucker that wears a tie to work into the ocean. Round up the elite and politicians and hang them in a square. Even Soddom and gommorah thought they were progressive and liberal. We can't just move the goalposts to accommodate because believe it or not we humans are held up to a standard we must adhere to. You watch where this goes. already this generation is making all the older ones sick to their stomachs. They see the pitfalls of what's happening but know the cunts are too daft to listen

[RayNavy]

ill use shawn as an example, what if, because of this law, he went into the girls restroom because he was born legally a man, i bet you those conservative nut women would be like "ahh fuck i knew it, ahh fuck he's coming for my titties!!!" but shawn would be like "uhh i was born legally a female so fuck you cause now i, a man, gotta use a women's restroom, how do ya like it now." How much of a self fulfilling prophecy is that. you make a man, who was born a female, use a women's restroom, therefore making the situation you wanted to avoid happen, a man in a womens restroom.

[jacquesvol]

South of the Mason-Dixon line many people still believe "Segregation Worked So Well"

[Justneedtokno]

Yes, this is already happening in Australia

[Johnagain]

I think it's stupid to have segregated transgender bathrooms. It has been around for a lot linger than these uptight offended whistle blowers have complained about it. And it seemed to work out just fine. To each their own. There are STALLS with doors for privacy, for crying out loud! What kind of PERVS are peeping around---er. Well, we've had that too. Um... If you're third gender or other, use whichever one you identify with and just don't let em see your stuff or get freaky (creepy) with anyone!

[ZenithDawn]

aslong as they ain't harassing anyone it should be fine boo

[genericname85]

so do we need like 100 different bathrooms for every constitution of gender now so that nobody feels uncomfortable? xD i think this is bullshit. just go on the toilet that´s for your biological gender. it can´t possibly be such a problem. in our university for example there are unisex bathrooms in a lot of places. meaning just one for everybody. that´s not a problem either.

[UncagedAgent]

Honestly, its pretty straight forward.

Match the pieces, got a penis, stand with the boys, got a vagina, sit with the girls.

[HentaiMaster23]

I'm very against it, cuz if you identify as male you should be able to go to the mens room, if you identify as female, you should be able to go to the ladies room, although I wish they had a Non-Binary Bathroom, I hate having to go to the mens room

[Jersey2]

Sounds like the bathrooms are a free for all now as anyone can walk into any bathroom since there is no way to determine who really identifies as what vs who just want to enter say the women's bathroom bevause they get off on it.

[QuestionMan]

I've heard this argument before of people just want to take a piss. That is why transgender bathrooms or having them use the disabled washrooms would be perfect in this scenario since you won't have an issue with rapists claiming to be transgender. However, that is not the main problem. The main issue is the normalization of the mental illness known as Gender Identity Disorder.

I feel sorry for people that suffer from it. We need to invest in mental health treatment to help these people become normal again. Mental illness is a big issue that's being ignored. We have many people suffering from illnesses but the money goes towards building more bombs and selling them to extremists.

[COCOCHANEL]

this won't be happening in japan thankfully

[jacquesvol]

@Cocochanel the 2003 GIDA is harsh but isn't part of the Constitution, is it?

[jacquesvol]

blog.hawaii.edu/.../APLPJ_14.2_Taniguchi.pdf

[COCOCHANEL]

never heard of it

[John_Doesnt]

Does that mean everybody needs a copy of their birth certificate just to poop in a public restroom?
I don't care who the fuck uses which bathroom. They're just going to the bathroom and it's none of my business.