Sexual Relationships
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Debunking the myth: No one is "born" gay!

I'm coming from a heated argument today with a teacher (who happens to be a lesbian). And she claimed in front of the whole class that people are just born gay and that there is a hormone "bath" during the child's early stage of pregnancy and whatnot.

All the things she claimed are absolute horseshit of course, so I confronted her and we had an open debate in class. I asked to please give me proof of what she was claiming and she kept going on, on what she believed without ever bringing any solid evidence.

Debunking the myth. No one is

Homosexualism has been prevalent all throughout human history, though homosexuals are definitely the minority is a phenomen that we can safely say is and has been common in nature. There's really no reason to claim people are born gay as an acceptance speech, when you don't have anything to back you up. And this is what bothers me. I don't think there's anything else that frustrates me more than listening to people acting like parrots repeating things that others say without doing the homework themselves.

First of, homosexualism is only a human phenomenon. Animals that are considered "gay" don't make the choice to sleep with only their same sex counterparts. These animals have sex with basically anything that puts in front of them. When animals present similar behaviours of that of homosexuals, it only means they are attempting to copulate with their same species regardless of their gender. I actually believe this argument would work best for bisexuals that homosexuals.

There's no technique or way to reverse homosexualism either. Now this is true. Once you are gay, you are gay. Period. I get upset when I hear Christians for example considering that you can change a person's sexual orientation when they can't. Morally, God condemns homosexual acts, not the person. A gay person is completely free of being gay but their acts would be what may lead them to trouble. Same thing can be said of heterosexuals, since there are too many risks of STD's (worse case scenario HIV). Keep your genitals in check is basically what the Bible commands. I mention this because it's the only thing this teacher got right. I agreed.

Researchers have already concluded that homosexualism develops exactly the same as any other other sexual fetish, or preference. Homosexualism is developed by envoromental factors without control from the person.

So basically, just as you end up liking the skinny guys over the muscular guys, or how you prefer/fetishise the redheads, or just the same as you prefer a well built ass over a big pair of tits. These are things you are not born with but start to manifest during your late childhood/early sexual development as teenagers. As to why some men chose their sexual orientation during adulthood I have no idea, they were probably gay much earlier but chosed to hide it.

Debunking the myth: No one is "born" gay!

"The Royal College of Psychiatrists considers that sexual orientation is determined by a combination of biological and postnatal environmental factors. There is no evidence to go beyond this and impute any kind of choice into the origins of sexual orientation"

The Royal College of Psychiatrists, 2004.

"Currently, there is no scientific consensus about the specific factors that cause an individual to become heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual—including possible biological, psychological, or social effects of the parents' sexual orientation. However, the available evidence indicates that the vast majority of lesbian and gay adults were raised by heterosexual parents and the vast majority of children raised by lesbian and gay parents eventually grow up to be heterosexual."

The American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers, 2006.

Researchers that have concentrated on proving the theory of people being born gay since possibly the late 70's have failed and are still trying to prove this without any success in modern day.

The American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality as a born-with mental condition in 1973, after finding out scientific evidence claiming it is NOT a mental condition people are born with (unlike say psychosis). Which ironically, proves furthermore that you can't be born gay, not only biologically but also mentally speaking. Again, you develop your orientation and often without any sort of control. How much do we need to repeat this for people to stop spreading lies and accept these as social facts? Do you understand why these things irritate me?

I never write myTakes but I felt a blood rush to do this one after what happened today. Be safe everyone!

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Most Helpful Guy

  • I'm gay and I don't necessarily believe gay people are "born" like this. But it was just a preference that came to us naturally, just like other sexual fetishes like you said. I'm not going to say I was born gay until there's scientific proof that there is some kind of "gay gene"
    But one thing that confuses me is that if these preferences develop in child/teenage years like you said, then how come parents know their child is gay when they are very young. Like 5 years old, before they even know what gay or sex means.
    Do preferences just develop at a very young age before we even realize it?

    • Parents can't possibly know if a 5 year old kid is gay. He is not sexually mature enough to even know this himself. Displaying female-like behaviors is completely unrelated to sexual behaviors. Reason why there are heterosexual people that other people swear their whole lives they're gay (acting feminine), and homosexual people who are not effeminate at all yet they find themselves being gay at some point of their lives. Am I making any sense? As children, we lack objective reasoning, and awareness. So that's why many people don't realize they are gay when growing up until they, well, gain awareness of this. "By the age of 8 or 9 children become aware that sexual arousal is a specific type of erotic sensation and will seek these pleasurable experiences through various sights, self-touches, and fantasy" Reinisch, June (1991). The Kinsey Institute new report on sex: what you must know to be sexually literate. New York: St. Martin's Press.

Most Helpful Girl

  • I know some people who simultaneously hold the fervent belief that people are born gay AND the fervent belief that male/female are just social constructs.

    Huh?

    • Hahaha good one. I guess some people aren't very good associating 😂😂😂 Thanks for reading!

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  • I completely agree with you and it annoys me when people say they are born gay.
    To me, it sounds ignorant to ignore science and spew out "facts" that aren't actually facts.

    Is it a possibility that someone is born gay and scientists just haven't found proof yet? I suppose it could happen. I mean, they are still discovering genes to this day. There's just so many possibilities and science is always advancing and pushing forward.

    But until then, we need to use the theories of people that have done research and know more about it than we do.

    And as it is, there haven't been any links to DNA and the "gay gene". Doesn't necessarily mean there isn't one, but the evidence that we do have does not support it thus far.

    We don't have any inconclusive proof that such a thing doesn't exist, but until we do we should all acknowledge what was said in this article.

    • I know what you mean, but you mixed the terms there (sorry for nitpicking). We shouldn't support "theories", we should support "facts". The good way to carry out arguments is using conclusive research. If people like to romanticize possibilities that's completely fine, but unfortunately is becomes mute to use it as an argument. Thanks for reading anyways!

    • Well, honestly, it is more of a theory than fact ("a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.") That is the best thing they can think of to explain how someone becomes gay. There isn't a hard fact that could necessarily disprove that gay people aren't born with it, there just are facts that lean towards a different hypothesis. So, if you follow the facts that we have, you would have to believe that gay people are not born with it. That doesn't mean that gay people CHOOSE to be gay, it just means that they aren't BORN with it. I don't understand why I have dislikes lol

    • "That doesn't mean that gay people CHOOSE to be gay, it just means that they aren't BORN with it. I don't understand why I have dislikes lol" That's the whole point of this basically. And I have no idea lol

  • Okay so you completely missed the point.

    Your sexual orientation is determined by a lot of factors, and research is still being done to determine what factors into orientation. What can be conclusively stated is that it is not determined by any single thing.

    You are right, you aren't exactly "born" gay. The reason why is sexual orientation isn't developed until sexual awareness, which happens closer to puberty.

    Even then, sexual orientation isn't black or white, but operates on a scale. You cannot "stop" being a sexual orientation, but you can discover levels of homosexuality or heterosexuality that you have.

    Sexual orientation may largely be determined by how you develop in the womb, but there is still a lot of factors that come into play after that. The researchers quote you mentioned shows how society, brain development, childhood development, psychological development, and all those other things play a part.

    It is very similar to liking redheads or white women. However, a major difference is that those are largely determined by parental and societal factors.
    Being exposed to more red-heads or white people may cause you to develop a strong desire for them, but being exposed to homosexuality doesn't make you more homosexual at a young age.

    We can already say, from your quoted studies, that homosexuals and heterosexuals do not become gay by being exposed to those orientations.

    Further, yes, Asexuality and Homosexuality were removed as mental illnesses, as were all sexual orientations. To understand what that means, you're required to know what a mental disorder is and understand it. Being removed from that classification doesn't mean there isn't influences happening at birth.
    Unfortunately, it is only proof that it isn't a mental illness. Nothing more, nothing less. It's best left as a footnote in this argument.

    It certainly isn't a choice though. That is a major misconception that has been disproven, and is even worse than "you are born gay."

    Further, homosexuality and asexuality servers an important function in the animal kingdom. There's been many studies done on it. Those animals play pivotal roles in adopting and raising children with no parents. Or assisting in child raring itself. They're important, and natural.

    As for "God" and homosexuality, one of the reasons I became agnostic and anti-Abrahamic, is that the morality of any god who creates homosexuality, and then tells those people they cannot love another, is morally detestable..

    • That's fine. I like you point of view on these issues. And I find your opinions reasonable too. "It is very similar to liking redheads or white women. However, a major difference is that those are largely determined by parental and societal factors. Being exposed to more red-heads or white people may cause you to develop a strong desire for them, but being exposed to homosexuality doesn't make you more homosexual at a young age." This is also true. Though I made the comparison (maybe saying exactly didn't helped my case), I meant in terms of development. Of course, when researchers talk about nurturing and environmental factors they don't mean explicitly these, but other factors specific to sexual orientation influence, I'm sure you know.

    • "Being removed from that classification doesn't mean there isn't influences happening at birth." Actually, I would entertain the idea that homosexuality, bisexuality and other different "abhorrent" (don't mean to sound derogative here) and bizarre sexual practices/fantasies may have a correlation on intellect and IQ distribution. Actually, I read a question today that reminded me of that study that made a similar relation to this. I wonder where can I get it now.

    • Thanks. You made some good points to build an opinion on, so good job there. I to build on to that in order to illustrate what it all means. At least, from what knowledge i have on orientations.

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  • The fact is SOME people ARE born gay. And some TURN gay. And yes there's proof!

    Regardless of who anyone tells you to like, you're gonna end up feeling attracted to what YOU find attractive.

    There was a little 3year old boy who was always so feminine.. as he grew older he was just very girly and wanted to play with dolls, so his parents got mad and he wiuld only play when his parents were not there. now he's a grown man and he's gay. He was just always attracted to what most commonly girls are attracted to since a very very early age.

  • "Researchers have already concluded that homosexualism develops exactly the same as any other other sexual fetish, or preference."

    A paragraph later:

    "Currently, there is no scientific consensus about the specific factors that cause an individual to become heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual—including possible biological, psychological, or social effects of the parents' sexual orientation."

    You see the contradiction?

    A lack of evidence is not evidence for a counterclaim. You would have been one of those guys in the 1400's denying that the Earth was round, because you could see that it was flat.

    Talking about failure as if it's proof of your claim is simply ridiculous.

    Why shouldn't we accept all of your beliefs as facts? Mmm. Possibly because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

    I do believe that homosexuality is more, if not completely, a result of environment. I've known many gay people who are missing a parent of the same gender. Meaning I basically agree with you. But, your reasoning is ridiculous.

    Do you understand why you irritate me?

    • I already discussed this topic with another commenter, and yes, I did hyperboled that statement and I retracted. It should have been: "Researchers have already concluded that homosexualism develops in a very similar fashion as any other other sexual fetish, or preference." Also, there has been establishment, and I can refer you to the researches, that the only proven and accurate fact about sexual orientation is the development caused by nurture and environmental factors. And that, buddy, is a fact. If this still irritates you then there's really not much I can do but to tell you to swallow a chill pill. Also, a line it doesn't take away credit of the things I've been saying, specially when I'm able to justify it. And you can take what I say in any way you want, all I know is I handle well my sources which is irrelevant since you agree somewhat to what I've been saying. My reasoning still stands.

    • Not the reasoning in this post, no.

  • My take on it is that many guys or women do not want to put in the effort to find a women.. and there are so many gay guys and gay women out there that will say yes to the same sex.. it is far easier to go with them.. they will let you do anything you want to them.. to some guys and gals.. what is better then that

    • That's bullshit lol.

    • I doubt this. Given the amount of guys that are disappointed at women, I'm pretty sure all of them would turn gay if it was by choice.

  • Could be several factors contributing to it but I don't feel anyone is going to accept any theories without hard scientific evidence to back it up. Plus, there are different types of gay people. I don't have a strong opinion one way or another about where it comes from but I don't think people choose it. It's long been associated with persecution and it doesn't make sense anyone would choose to be persecuted. That goes against basic logic. It's one of those live and let live things. If we could just respect each other, sexuality wouldn't be an issue in society.

    • I agree. Thanks for reading! :)

    • You're welcome :)

  • No, there isn't a gay gene or scientists would have found it by now.

    Then again they haven't found what causes autism or other mental disorders either.
    I believe that homosexuality is a little like a mental disorder.
    It's not necessarily a bad, thing but not necessarily a good thing either. There's no cure. There's no evidence to suggest exactly how it develops. It affects a persons behavior. It's not something that should be discriminated against, but it's no more normal than autism or Asperger is.
    Only ten percent of the male population is gay. If it were a normal thing that percentage would be closer to fifty percent.

    • We could argue there might be some sort of heritable, mental predisposition (not talking about an specific gay gene here lol) but something mentally that triggers with post-natal environmental factors. It's an interesting point of view. Thanks for reading!

  • Actually that is not true. Their are female cows when born to twin male act like a bull ie attempt to mate with other females. Then of course scientific evidence has found structural differences in the brains of homosexuals that are similar to those of the opposite gender heavily suggesting it is biological in origin. We have pretty good evidence to conclude its biological, one of which is the fact that when faced with extreme violence for the behavior they cannot seem to deviate from it suggesting an innate response rather then it being a choice. Thats like saying being straight is a choice, most will argue that they do not choose who they find attractive they simply do. Now there are some enviromental factors but as with all things, this only triggers what preexists within the genetic code (like depression and such).
    www.sciencemag.org/.../study-gay-brothers-may-confirm-x-chromosome-link-homosexuality
    www.livescience.com/...being-gay-not-a-choice.html
    www.natureworldnews.com/.../...ongest-evidence.htm

  • You fucknut! To start of with, sex in humans is still a primal thing - the chimp-like thinking/lizard brain still kicks in so to say homosexuality is only a human phenomenon is ridiculous. You're also projecting human emotions into animals. There's just as much evidence either way and you're saying its determined by environmental factors? How do children living with two fathers/mothers turn out hetero then? Or super-orthodox Christians children be gay? There so many hypocrisy during this it's unbelievable. It's people like yourself that halts human progress.

    • "You fucknut..." I stopped reading, thanks.

    • Thank you. Just re-enforces my point😊

    • Certainly. It means you can't have an argument without resorting to insults. Have a good one.

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  • I am queer, not gay but asexual. And I feel like I was born this way. Sexuality is not a choice. I think you are taking this to literal, as no new born had developed sexual orientation. It just means that people are the way they are, and feel like they have always been that way. I think that applies to every orientation.

    • I have nothing against gay people and that's the reason I used Ian McKellen in myTake, cause I admire the guy. However, what you feel is irrelevant to the studies. Liberalist usually apply sentiment over logic, and emotions over facts and that's completely wrong.

    • But but no one sexuality can be dianogised at any point in one's life. There is no sexual orientation test at all, if some one feels like they are said sexual orientation then they are. Sexuality at least in term of gender preference is based on attraction not action. So it is to whom you are attracted to, which is a feeling that only the individual can define. The cause is irrelevant to the effect.

  • Homosexual attraction is an acquired trait. Period. And the APA didn't use science to remove it. They based that on political pressure.

    • I respect your opinion. However, it was based on a research that was held because of gay manifestations and political pressure. You may have a point though.

  • Actually, it's a proven fact that being gay can have an impact due to your genetics.
    There, I have stated my argument and I would like to avoid a confrontation with you.

    • No, there isn't a gay gene. Sexual orientations and preferences aren't determined by genetics, every other post-natal proven influence is enough to determine these sort of things. And that's fine, there's nothing to argue cause there is no proof here. Carry on, and thanks for reading anyways :)

    • Don't patronize me. Google it :)

    • I don't have to. There are no studies that confirm this, with veritable/recognized conclusions. If you are basing your argument based on google searches and biased websites then you are missing the whole point here.

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  • The people claiming it is a "problem" it's just plain and simply stupid.

    In nature, homosexuality exists and it is neither a secret nor a "conspiracy" to make your children gay, the problem is that we have a CONSCIOUSNESS that mediates between our will and our actions which is affected by our own culture, that's why people is more akin to claim they are not "totally" heterosexual on Europe than they are in America and other parts of the world.

    The "gay gene" term isn't even a term used in genetics, it is a media-created term (like "the 1%"), such term is -although not exclusively- used by right-wing (specifically conservative) media and it comes with the same rhetoric they use to deny climate change. The has been plenty of evidence about homosexuality not being a psychological thing. For anyone who wants a more grounded explanation, basically asking for a "gay gene" is like asking for a "gender/sex" gene, there isn't one either, if it was, people would have been already extinct if one of both sex's genes became too widespread. Being gay is a similar thing to getting a sex, and it isn't even in your mind.

    Before, they used to discriminate and judge homosexuals based on religion, now that religion isn't a deeply important thing in the modern world, they try to argue from a pseudoscientific trench, but it is always the same mental gymnastic: give up the parts that are just too ridiculous for current society's standards and keep the core, then come back.

    Homosexuality of course, isn't an "exclusivity" thing in nature, there are not homosexual animals as in, a "sexuality", but homosexual acts, and I haven't been able to see a chimp being willingly penetrated by another one (not even unwillingly). But the issue is that apes have not a really complex mind, and our mind can affect a lot.

    To conclude:

    Even if homosexuality wasn't "natural" or "normal" that doesn't make it EVIL and I don't find any reason to hate or think in any negative way about it, specially, if you feel zero attraction for the opposite sex. The need to "debunk" the natural origin of homosexuality is to demonize, because you can't lynch people for not abiding to your beliefs anymore, they just to try to make people think it is a mental disorder.
    With all the information available on the Internet, claiming homosexuality is bad is plain and simple stupidity and voluntary ignorance.

    Damn God must have been drunk when he made those dick-licking chimps tho.

    www.telegraph.co.uk/.../...fort-to-homophobes.html

    • I agree to some of your points of views and respect your opinion thoroughly, but you need to understand that debunking here, at least for me personally, is not to demonize but to "expose the falseness or hollowness of (a myth, idea, or belief).". Why? Because there are people that call themselves professionals yet they teach things to students that aren't facts as facts, and worse things that aren't even recognize by scholars. Also, I don't think I ever implied negativity against homosexuals so I take it tht last line wasn't for me. Thanks for reading. Lmao tho XD

    • It seems, you didn't even get it right though, those aren't opinions, those are facts. There is a difference between objectivity and neutrality, the second tries to look for a middle ground regardless of reality not being compatible with such thing in a certain case. You also responded in a very vague way, I still don't even know what you think, and which are your arguments to debunk and "expose" those "so called" experts.

  • We need to stop claiming we know the truth about what causes homosexuality and just accept that for now it's understood as a complex mixture of factors. Not even scientists understand it completely. However, I refuse to believe that people choose to be gay. No way.

    • I kind of agree, but my point here is that when people start making out facts my counter offer is the following: The only proven statements we can make on homosexuality is that it develops from nurture and environmental factors, often an interplay of these. Any other claim outside of these are just mere "possibilities" and non recognized "theories". If people weren't making out these statements I wouldn't be affected in the slightest. Also, yes I don't believe being gay is a choice in most cases.

    • But as it's been observed in animals there must be some kind of underlying biological element to it? Surely. Animals don't have room for the complex psychosocial development that allows some humans to be gay. The jury is still out for everyone though. If scientists were so sure it was merely the result of nurture, then the debate would have ended long ago.

    • That's the argument for many biologists. Many believe that males can segregate females for coitus and vice versa but others don't. So even if some species display homosexual behaviors many biologists believe they will still respond to their reproductive instinct. But yes, it is a prevalent thing in nature and very few develop it, it is present in nature regardless. As for your second point, not really, as long as people know what gay gene is as a social construct there will be bias towards that idea and the arguments will still prevail even if such things can't be actually proven.

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  • You are ignorant - scientifically and in almost every other way conceivable. You listen to others but don't follow through in a logical method. Instead, you simply echo others idiocy. You'll make a fine member of the Republican "base".

    • Take your own advice. You are making unfounded claims, while my claims are coming directly from the medical books. Maybe you should make your own research before coming here and calling scholars "idiots".

    • Your understanding of medicine is what's in error. As a practicing scientist and engineer, I know what I am talking about.

    • I've been studying science for two good years now, and I recently finished a course on genetics. What's the point on bringing this up? You're the third person that comes here proclaiming to be a scientist yet you have no study nor proof that there is something as a gay gene or that hormones affect sexual preferences directly from birth. I don't see what's the point in claiming to be a scientist yet not being able to recite sources that have been approved by medical scholars? What am I missing then? Point me such research that proves your claims?

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  • Well, nueroscience is supposed to look into wether one is born gay or if Its from your environment I. e gender norms or if it's a disorder. They have already concluded tranagenders are not born into the wrong body but environmental influences and mental illness make them feel so. I think , I'll just wait for science to speak before I give an opinion on this issue.

    • Good call. Thanks for reading.

  • I for one don't get the need to define whether someone can be born gay or not. What does it matter in reality? They are gay. That's it. Now live with it.

    • I am normally like this. But I hated the fact that a Histology Teacher would use theories as facts, and tried to convince students of these. I hate to see people claiming things that aren't proven.

  • I think we are getting to the point past that argument, if you are born that way or not, it shouldn't make a difference. Let people love who they want to love. I think it does develop during puberty, but again who cares, live and let live

    • I respect your opinion. Thanks for reading.

  • I personally think you have just as much control of your sexuality as you do with your limbs.

    Although some are just stubborn in their beliefs...
    m.mobsea.net/appimg/Most-Craziest-Facts/rip60.jpg

  • Psychiatrists? Where are the Economists? They are good at explaining data and such. I never trust the shrinks. They think everyone is crazy. Economists assume everyone is perfectly sane. You sort of want both to crunch the data and put in the math.

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