Do you agree with abortions!!

[overcoatandhat]

Do you think an abortion is acceptable under any circumstances?

[wölfin-fräulein]

Abortion existed from long before Christianity existed. abortion can be considered a natural act. you cannot completely stop it.

In Avesta the Zoroastrians are against abortion. but they have euthanasia instead. they killed deformed and disabled children. What do you have?

1) you don't believe in abortion
2) you don't believe in euthanasia

you don't believe in anything. "LETS JUST KEEP EVERYTHING THAT COMES OUT FROM A BLIND CRAFT OF NATURE ALIVE". like a mad masochist. that is your motto.

no. we should not keep everything alive. we are not bound to keep everything alive. because nature does not keep everything alive as it does not craft everything with the ability to remain.

In some situations such as physical disabilities and mental disabilities such as down syndrome there should be abortion. there is not the slightest doubt and exception in that.
do you want to keep someone like this:
news.fergananews.com/photos/2008_05/mlad.jpg

he is beautiful but also in pain. you cannot choose that something made of a blind craft remain and by that put a life in pain. how can he enjoy life? he will not. and he will cause unnecessary negative feelings that he or she does not want to cause.
Masochistic feelings are negative. whether or not some religious people want to consider it the most positive feelings.

as in other situations that the child is healthy, there should be a sense of responsibility inside the woman. whether she wants to be a teenager or not. If she is a teenager of a poor family that cannot afford raising a children she can and should first consider adoption. but she can also consider abortion if there is a critical negative situation. there is no need for keeping a child 1) when she hasn't the financial power 2) when she hasn't the emotional power and positive emotions to give him or her. in this situation the child will be grown up as having and giving nothing positive in life.

Tough that doesn’t mean to encourage unnecessary abortion. If all wanted...

[wölfin-fräulein]

to abort children in a hard situation there wouldn’t be a society now. We remained through hardship. That is only about very hard situations when the mother has , 1) mental problems 2) physical and hormonal problems that causes lack of compassion and motherhood abilities 3) rape pregnancies that can cause 1 and 2. And also financial problems. in another situation if the woman whether teenage or not, herself or her family has the financial power to keep the child she should consider keeping him or her and take responsibility of what she has done. or at the most consider adoption. If there is the situation that the child can be born and raised in a good family then abortion is illogical. As necessary as the existence of abortion is it should not be used as an excuse for getting out of the responsibility of what someone has done willingly. That is all. Existence of Abortion is necessary. How to use it needs careful consideration.

[aamy811]

Can I just say I love you

[aamy811]

Okay it's not murder. That thing doesn't even have freaking eyeballs yet. I'm pro choice. Making abortion illegal will not stop abortions. It will not cause women to have unsafe abortions that could kill her and whatever was in her.
Also adoption isn't always the answer. Every yer about 35% of kids age out of the system or run away. Which causes them to be homeless and start with a life of poverty.
Being pregnant is expensive. This women who suffer from vein in the poverty line can't afford to be pregnant. Things like prenatal vitamins and doctor visits cost a lot of money these women don't have. And recovery from having a baby costs a lot of time ( time of work so they can't make money) and money.
Also it's not like you can get an bottom whenever. There is a point where the thing no longer qualifies for abortion. I don't think it goes to the second trimester.
Truth is this is my body. You can't tell me what I an and can not do with my body. If your okay with a man (who never has to make this tough decision), choosing what you can do with your body then that's you. But don't prevent me from doing what I want

[BeInnovative]

thanks well said to the freaking crazy anti-abortionists

[a-wish]

No! you have no right to end a life.. you shouldn't take the risks if your not willing to face the consequences! There are people out there who can't have babies, if you really dont want the child then you could just give the child up for adoption... not end its life before its hsd a chance.

[ButterflyXkisses]

You have no exceptions?

[a-wish]

nope, whatever the circumstances its not the childs falt and the child shouldn't have to pay for it.

[topknots]

Even rape? Even if it would cost the mother's life?

[SomethingWicked]

See, the problem with adoption, is that there are plenty of kids needing adopting, but people only want babies, that's more fucking selfish than having abortion in my opinion. Yeah, we can't have kids, so we'll adopt, but we'll only adopt a baby. Selfish.

[Deadinside10]

I am with you a-wish

[cipher42]

And what about rape? That's not the mother's fault, why should she pay for it? Especially when both her and her fetus's lives are in danger from the pregnancy. You would rather a fully grown person and a non-sentient clump of cells die than just the clump of cells, despite neither of them being at fault?

[SomethingWicked]

Also, people who have been raped, pretty sure they didn't agree to the risks. How about people who need to have an abortion for medical reasons, or they'll die. This is why I fucking hate anti-abortionists, self righteous and uninformed.

[a-wish]

its still not the babys falt... there is always adoption if that was the case...

[SomethingWicked]

So a woman should go through a pregnancy she doesn't want because YOU are against abortion. Aso, I see you haven't commented upon having an abortion for medical reasons because the woman would die...

[topknots]

Holy shit. You don't get it, do you? The amount of kids in the system is ridiculous. ABSOLUTELY ridiculous. Most of them get tossed around in foster care. Do you understand the detrimental psychological effect that kid would have after ONE: finding out they were a rape baby, TWO: finding out their mom didn't want them, and THREE: bouncing from home to home, feeling like none of those homes wanted them either? That shit is fucking millions of times worse than getting rid of cells unable to sustain life.

[overcoatandhat]

With regards to the rape side of thing it not the baby that has done anything wrong. Every cloud has a silver lining and in these cases the child is that silver lining.

[a-wish]

dont get pregnant in the first place then:L and again with medical problems... implant... the pill... there are loads of things to stop you getting pregnant so fucking use them:L

[BiffWebster]

-_- abortion is a hard decision... you just can't say "oops adoption" its a hard thing to do... and no woman wants an abortion, but hey if your going to bring a child into this then ask yourself this... what kind of environment will the child be growing up in. Because if you are in a dangerous environment... or at the same time in a very stressful and abusive situation then that child will be effected even after birth. Environment can changes genetics sadly. Not to mention that the "adoption issue" is a really big hassle not to mention the foster homes in the country which i may add (growing up in one) are horrible

[topknots]

What if they were trying to have a kid, but then found out the kid was killing the mom? Do you HONESTLY believe you wouldn't abort the kid and kill BOTH the mom and the kid (aka TWO lives) rather than just the kid (aka ONE life). I should never get involved in shit like this. Pisses me the fuck off.

[a-wish]

the amount of kids is because the amount of irresponsible twits out there:L

[topknots]

Gonna answer my question at all?

[SomethingWicked]

Some things aren't discovered until a pregnancy occurs. Say, like ectopic pregnancy. Also 'don't get pregnant in the first place then' see rape. Oh but adoption... Yeah, people only want babies, there are enough kids in care that need loving homes, what about them? They're in a system that does fuck all for them then throws them onto the street at 18 to fend for themselves without even giving them life skills. Do pro-lifers work to be this seriously uninformed?

[a-wish]

I dont care what you lot think... under no circumstances would I willingly walk into a clinic and end my babys life! if someone gave birth and then decided they didn't want that kid anymore and killed it.. would that be acceptable? because its exactly the same thing!

[topknots]

EXCELLENT! That's why it's pro-CHOICE! It's your CHOICE to not walk into that clinic and get one. That does not mean it's YOUR choice for someone else to do so. What they have going on in their life is of NO matter to you. Answer me: is a baby one to two months into her gestational period able to survive out of the woman?

[Cómoestás]

So you would have 2 deaths rather than 1? That's ridiculous

[a-wish]

no because it needs the mother to feed it... if you gave birth to the baby and just left it and didn't look after it then it would die aswell...

[SomethingWicked]

It's not the same thing and you know it isn't. So top using that excuse. A embryo can not survive outside the mothers womb by itself, a newborn can.

[SomethingWicked]

*stop.

[topknots]

But a newborn CAN survive immediately being taken out of the womb. The clump of cells within the first four months of pregnancy cannot. That's the difference that you're failing to see.

[Answerstolife17]

@SomethingWicked Viability is a very interesting argument, but there are many cases of conjoined twins in which one twin cannot survive without the other (if they underwent the procedure to separate themselves). What happens in this scenario? Please tag when you reply. Looking forward to a discussion without any animosity.

[a-wish]

it is the same tho:L you having an abortion you are killing the baby... there is nothing the baby can do about it... it can't defend itself... same as a new born baby.

[topknots]

Holy shit. You don't get it. AT ALL.

[a-wish]

nope... your just a fucking murderer!! f you killed a child then you would go to prison... if you killed an adult you would go to prison... killing a baby you should go to prison for murder!!

[topknots]

You're* If* If you're going to insult me, do it right. I deserve better than that.

[cipher42]

Those are people and humans. Fetuses are not, for a variety of reasons.

[Answerstolife17]

This is such an interesting discussion (would probably be better if y'all could calm down a bit). But someone please explain the difference to me: Viability is a very interesting argument, but there are many cases of conjoined twins in which one twin cannot survive without the other (if they underwent the procedure to separate themselves). What happens in this scenario? Please tag when you reply. Looking forward to a discussion without any animosity.

[topknots]

@Answerstolife17 I'm not sure what you're asking.

[Answerstolife17]

^of course, that's assuming that embryos or fetuses are persons And I am not making such a claim, I'm just assuming it is for the sake of argument

[a-wish]

couldnt reply to that then so your just gonna go for the spelling:L dick.

[Answerstolife17]

@topknots Ah, what I'm saying is that if the unborn is a part of a mother because it can't survive without her, then why isn't the twin who will die not a part of the twin who will survive?

[SomethingWicked]

@Answerstolife17 Conjoined twins, is a difficult one. There is 2 ways I can view this though. The parents making the decision for the procedure, which, they may accept, if they're told they both will die if they stay conjoined in say, a year. If the doctors said that separating them would kill one but let the other live a full life, I would honestly opt for that option. The second way to view this, is if they'll both live to adult life, in this case, I would say not to separate them, and whenever they're old enough to make the decision for themselves, and with all the knowledge they can obtain and what to expect, then let them decide for themselves on whether to get the operation or not.

[Answerstolife17]

Again, there is no definitive answer to what is and isn't a person. Standards of personhood are socially constructed (slaves weren't considered persons). What I'm saying is that if viability is a standard for personhood, then shouldn't conjoined twins who will die as a result of surgery also not be considered persons.

[Cómoestás]

@a-wish So let's say you got preganant and you had medical reasons in which you couldn't born a baby or you would die. The only option is abortion to save your own life. Now would you rather A. Let yourself die and the baby also B. Get an abortion and save your own life Which option sounds better?

[topknots]

^pretty much that @answerstolife17. If I am understanding you correctly, the conjoining them is detrimental to where they both will die, but if separated one will live, right? I would choose that. One life is better than none.

[Answerstolife17]

Wait why can't I comment? @topknots No, there are many pairs of conjoined twins living as adults. However, getting separated will obviously make their lives more convenient. However, in many instances, one twin will die as a result of the procedure to separate them.

[srslyly]

a-wish, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I think a lot of the people responding don't realize that their arguments lack any moral force when about 20% of all fetuses are being aborted. Rape? Really? Death in childbirth? Fucking really? How does it always come back to that?

[topknots]

I've said my piece, and if those going against me choose to not see it, then so be it. Instead of proper debate, I've been called a dick and a cunt. Is that how the court system works now? The defense calls the prosecutor a dick or a cunt, and they win? Either way, I'll rest knowing I have a free choice in what I do. :) Nice to meet you all.

[SomethingWicked]

@srslyly Because if pro-lifers had their way, all abortions would be banned, meaning rape victims couldn't have one, and those with a medical need couldn't have one either. So, making rape victims carry the child of their rapist, also probably leading to suicide in a lot of cases, and two people dying, because no abortions, is better than an abortion for pro-lifers. They're not pro-life then are they. They're pro do what I want because my opinion and my wants top everyone else's rights.

[srslyly]

@SomethingWicked You didn't respond to what I said. You exemplified it. Answer this for me. If technology made it possible to prevent all pregnancies resulting from rape, or even to prevent rape altogether, and it was also impossible due to modern medicine to die in childbirth, would you then support banning of abortions. Or do you only mention those approximately 0% of all abortions because it makes your argument look better?

[topknots]

*peeks head in* Me again. @srslyly We're only using that because @a-wish said under NO circumstances should abortion be legal. We were divulging into that aspect.

[SomethingWicked]

I would still agree with abortion, there are always other issues for having abortions. Do I think abortions should be used as contraception, no. But there is a hell of a lot of factors that women would consider before choosing an abortion. (Bar the people who use it as a contraceptive.) These issues can range from psychological issues, medical issues (not the woman dying, but passing on say sma type 1 to the child and the child will die painfully in the first year of its life), financial issues, etc. It is painfully idiotic to think that women choose abortion as an easy option (a lot of people do think this), it is in no means an easy option. Also, please tell me, why it is, that it is always religious people that are so against abortion?

[srslyly]

@tooknots . . . and then if she had said, "Oh yeah, sure, I'm cool with those exceptions for rape or when the woman is likely to die in childbirth. I just think they should ban the other approximately 100% of abortions that actually happen." then you'd have been like, "Ok, cool. We're on the same page and we've got no beef with you."?

[SomethingWicked]

Also, you said 'die in childbirth', a lot if abortions performed to prevent the death of women usually happen in the first 4-5 months of pregnancy.

[srslyly]

Mistyped, sorry @topknots

[SomethingWicked]

Of * @srslyly I probably won't respond today again, since it's 4.30am where I am, and I've to be up at 7am.

[topknots]

@srslyly Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. I usually have no beef with people who are pro-life except for extenuating circumstances. What harm is in that? As you can see, I didn't pick arguments with the people who said that. However, when people exclude circumstances that could be incredibly detrimental psychologically for both the mom and the baby, that's when I get a bit aggressive. I've seen how most of those kids in adoption end up. I WORK with them. No kid deserves what I have seen some of the time. If that can be avoided, by all means.

[srslyly]

@topknots That's cool. Like I said, I have no dog in this fight. I just think it's a little silly to focus the entire debate, nationwide in the U. S. (and it very much is) on the most marginal cases, at the far extreme end from where the law is, here. It's legal and extremely common to abort as a backup for contraception. It's the most protected thing in the entire law (and arguably the fundamental goal of our civilization) but quite rare to abort for any genuine medical reason or due to rape. But we never talk about the law as it relates to the common scenarios.

[topknots]

@srslyly I didn't want to say this because I didn't want to be that "I'm right because it happened to me!" kind of girl- but I was taken advantage. And I have the possibility of being pregnant, because the dumbfuck didn't use a condom. Would I choose to abort the kid? Hell yeah. I'm a 20 year old college student who can't even support herself, let alone a child. I would love the child, but it would be brought up in shit ALSO with having a father who couldn't keep it in his pants. That is why I was so hellbent on making my stance in the rape argument. My beliefs all boil down to this- if two people have consensual sex and if NEITHER of them use any form of birth control, then I don't believe abortion is right. They were stupid. It's tricky though because it would be hard to prove that a condom. However, if birth control ultimately fails and the girl is pregnant, then I feel like it's okay because they were actively trying to NOT get pregnant. That's why I'm pro-choice.

[srslyly]

@topknots It's interesting to me that you emphasize the man's failure to use birth control as an element of when you would disallow abortion. (you zealot who's miles away from the law, to the pro-life side) What does his choice have to do with it? It's not as though he has any say in the abortion. Did you only mean that she should be able to use her own contraception or rely on his use of a condom at her discretion?

[topknots]

@srslyly I'm sorry, what is your argument exactly?

[srslyly]

No argument, just a question. Why does it matter if he used birth control or not? @topknots

[topknots]

@srslyly It matters because we're talking about abortion here. Since obviously I'm not on it because I'm not sexually active per my choice, and there wasn't a condom when he assaulted me, then I'm left to possibly wonder if I'm going to have to make the possible impending choice of abortion or not. Because not on pill + no condom = possible pregnancy = possible abortion. Granted I would have had time to get away if he had time to put on a condom, but I'm not a "what if" thinker.

[srslyly]

@topknots I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about your second paragraph where you laid out a specific stance on the overall issue. I have no Idea how to relate anything you said back to anything I said.

[srslyly]

Basically, I read that stance as: If she consents, and doesn't use contraception And He also consents, but doesn't use contraception Then you oppose the abortion. I don't understand why the second element is relevant.

[topknots]

@srslyly You didn't specify that. You said "Why does it matter if he..." I thought you were talking about my situation. As for my generalized second paragraph- it matters because they were actively trying to avoid getting pregnant by using birth control as opposed to not using anything. The latter were just being careless.

[srslyly]

@topknots Right, but why should his action confer rights upon her? If only the man takes precautions, then the decision to abort is entirely the woman's. If only the woman takes precautions, then the decision to abort is entirely the woman's. If they both take precautions, then the decision to abort is entirely the woman's. No other aspect of human interaction works that way.

[topknots]

@srslyly An issue with human nature is that we put too many complications and irrelevancies into things that can be made simple. Consensual sex. An act where both partners agree to having sex. HE isn't using contraceptives, THEY are. SHE isn't using contraceptives, THEY are. If she were to keep the baby, THEY would have to take it into court to discuss child support, which they BOTH would have to adhere to. It's the woman's choice because the baby in her body and she's left with it. The man can have no part it in minus the child support, but if she leaves the baby then she is in legal trouble. So she should at least have some choice in what happens with the baby, because it's easier for the man to run.

[srslyly]

In all fifty states, it is legal for a woman to drop off a baby at a safe haven provided it is healthy and below a specified age. (only two states had any process for the father to gain custody) In thirty-three states it is legal to adopt a child without the father's permission unless he is married to the mother or has registered with the putative father's registry. (women flock to Utah to do this, since it is literally impossible to comply with the requirements of the registry) No state requires that a woman inform a man that she is pregnant with his baby or to inform him that he is only one of multiple possible fathers. All fifty states have a cutoff point after which, a man who has acknowledged paternity is estopped from denying it. No state has any provision which will excuse a biological father from child support under any circumstances other than sperm donation. (not statutory rape, not failure to inform him of his child's existence) @topknots

[srslyly]

You were saying something about what "they" did and how it was easier for him to "walk away"?

[topknots]

@srslyly Looking back, the only idiotic move I made was trying to sway the beliefs of an anti-abortionist. If I were talking, I would be essentially wasting my oxygen because I could shoot off endless facts and rebuttals but the fact of the matter is you will never, ever believe me and I will never, ever believe you. That's the fun of politics! Agree to disagree?

[srslyly]

You couldn't possibly rebut anything I just said and offer any facts at the same time. The law is what it is, and I've got a big, fancy degree that says that I've studied it. You're entitled to your opinion, but the law is exactly as I have described it, I assure you. I was unaware that I was an anti-abortionist. I'm not sure what gave you that impression.

[srslyly]

Forgot to tag @topknots

[topknots]

@srslyly Seriously? I'm fucking tired. What you study doesn't mean shit to me. Abortion is legal in the United States (thank you Roe v. Wade). Those are facts. You must have had lots of fun arguing with a 20 year old who apparently can't logically rebut anything for you to continue after I said we can agree to disagree. That all may be the law, but the law is that abortion is legal and unless you wanna get yourself into Congress, then I suggest you put up or shut up.

[srslyly]

@topknots Why do you think I want to ban abortions? I want to get rid of putative father registries, safe havens without process for fathers, child support collected from statutory rape victims, paternity fraud, etc. I brought those issues up because your position made it seem like you would be sympathetic to them, and I was curious as to your exact reasoning. Instead of expanding on the conversation, you denied the existence of the very real state of the law, and when I tell you I know what I'm talking about, you come back with nothing but insults. If I offended you, I'm not sorry, because I didn't do anything wrong.

[Answerstolife17]

@srslyly Could you please explain how the banning of abortion would fix your concerns?

[topknots]

@srslyly Great. Bye.

[srslyly]

@Answerstolife17 Why do you think I think that? Couldn't be anything I said.

[Answerstolife17]

@srslyly Huh? Dude, I'm pro-life. I just want to know how banning abortion would fix your concerns.

[srslyly]

@Answerstolife17 It wouldn't. I don't know why you're asking me that. I also don't know why she all pissy and left the convo just because I brought those things up when she had just made a statement that displayed that she was completely unaware of those issues. Don't infer my position based on her reactions to me. I don't know what she was talking about.

[Answerstolife17]

@srslyly "Why do you think I want to ban abortions? I want to get rid of putative father registries, safe havens without process for fathers, child support collected from statutory rape victims, paternity fraud, etc.." Ok, I thought you meant that you wanted to ban abortion because it would fix these concerns of yours.

[srslyly]

@Answerstolife that's funny. If you voice that part right, it comes off as connected. Damned internet convos. I wonder if that's how she got mad at me, too.

[Answerstolife17]

@srslyly by the way what do you mean by child support by statutory rape victims? Like both of them were underage?

[srslyly]

@Answerstolife17 I mean there have been several cases of under aged boys raped by teachers or babysitters and then pursued for child support. None of them have successfully avoided support obligations. There have also been cases of women impregnating themselves by sucking the spooge out of condoms with turkey basters. No scenario is so bizarre or disgusting as to obviate a man's liability for his sperm. So, when a woman tells me about how the man can "walk away" yeah, I bring that up.

[Answerstolife17]

@srslyly Oh holy crap seriously? These boys got sued for child support and lost? Holy crap.

[SachikoKurisu]

@a-wish I agree with you COMPLETELY 100% and it's so nice to see someone else with the same views as I do about this horrid act.

[Lilac79]

sucks that you got so many down votes but yeah I totallly agree with you!

[gotc147]

Most people are in favor of restrictions on abortion, for example only abortions in cases of sexual assault or if the pregnancy would endanger the mother's life.

People are in favor of banning abortions after 20 weeks/third trimester, some even the second trimester.

People are in favor of minors who get pregnant being required to inform their parents before getting an abortion.

People are in favor of women who want to get abortions having to pay for it themselves.

But when any single one of these restrictions is proposed, the feminazis go ape shit, saying it's anti-women and that it's somehow unfair. To them, a woman should be able to abort a pregnancy while she's in labor and the baby is half way out of her already.

I'm not heavily invested in the abortion debate, I really don't care what happens concerning the subject, but remember this, especially those who are in favor of unrestricted abortion: your mother chose life.

[BiffWebster]

yea.
the problem is that most of these "pro-life people" are only interested in Abstinence teaching. See if they taught real sex education, gave out condoms and birth control (as they do in Europe)( and studies have shown that when this shit is provided... accidents like pregnancy STOP) that teen pregnancy and spread of disease would go down... then we wouldn't have the abortion problem in the first place in most cases.

yet all they seem to care about is Sex after marriage -_- which common people... we live in the 21st century

[skullly]

Only if you know for a fact that your child will come out deformed, sick with a terminal desease or a product of rape. Those are the only reasons why I think a child shouldn't be born, because that is just sad... Otherwise, it is not acceptable!! If you choose to have sex, you should be ready to deal with the consequences.. If you cannot afford to have a child for whatever reason, then you shouldn't be having sex at all, cause nothing is 100% effective against pregnancy. I'm not saying "you" to you, just in general to anyone.

[Lilac79]

if they have a terminal disease you should let it run it's course, no sense in just killing it off. If they are going to be deformed that is no reason to end their life! Product of rape is a touchy subject but I still think that they should let the child live and just give it up for adoption. Don't make another crime out of the first crime. It's not the childs fault that some man did a bad thing

[skullly]

If the pregnancy is in the initial state, people should have the option to abort if they are informed that their child will be born with a fatal disease, deformed or a product of rape.. If the find out once the pregnancy is already advanced well no, that's awful... but why bring a child into the world if it will suffer? and the parents will suffer too.. that's just cruel! and a product of rape, in case you were not aware that may grow up to be rapist as well, plus the trauma the mother had to go through.. I don't think bringing someone into this world to suffer is lovely, maybe you do. @Lilac79 .. Other than those specific reasons, and in a timely manner, abortion should be illegal.

[been_waiting]

I don't think we should determine what lives have value. My mom's friend's daughter was diagnosed with spinal bifida prenatally. The doctor as well as everyone said her life wouldn't be worth anything so she should abort. The girl is a 20 yr old college student with a boyfriend and a career ahead of her. She's a sweetheart and experiences little pain. She walks with a cane and moves slowly and has to use a catheter. Minor things compared to never having the chance to live at all.

[skullly]

Your comparison is not valid @been_waiting I'm not saying all people giving birth to ill baby's should die. I only say they (the parents alone) should have the option of whether they want to bring into this world a suffering baby and in the process, they themselves will suffer watching their baby suffer... and your example was not a fatal disease either, she had a defect. There's a difference. I have family members who have kids who are mentally ill, they are old and very very disabled.. their parents are always sad.. it's a sad life... not just for the ill person, but also for the parents. I'm not saying they should have aborted, I'm saying people should have the option in these cases.

[been_waiting]

It wasn't a comparison. It was a story. About the same concept you're discussing. That when an unborn baby is likely to be born deformed or ill or whatever the child shouldn't be born. If you re-read your own opinion, you said "those are the only reasons why I think a child shouldn't be born." So I'm not sure where you found a "comparison" in my comment. The girl I mentioned was supposed to have a "sad life" so her mother was urged to abort her, and yet, her life isn't sad. Even so, it's not up to anyone to dictate what kind of life is worth living. You don't have to be free from physical deformities to be happy.

[skullly]

Wrong again, I didn't say the child should NOT be born, I said the parents should have the option, in such cases, and NOT If they are ill or deformed, I clearly said if they have a terminal disease, or mentally disabled, not just a defect. Either read correctly, or don't argue something you clearly do not understand. And yes you are comparing this to someone who was ALREADY born, assuming I would rather have that person Unborn, that's pathetic, cause it does not compare. @been_waiting

[been_waiting]

Read your statement. You said should not be born. Its the same concept. You clearly just don't get it. That girls life was SUPPOSED to be not worth living and yet her life is pretty ordinary. Fetuses who are aborted because their life is supposedly going to be too "sad" still have lives worth living... its not up to us to attach value to lives but you know what. Who gives a fuck.

[skullly]

I don't understand why people even comment on comments that they clearly do not comprehend. All I'm saying is the parents should have the option in such cases... which in MY CASE, I wouldn't want to give life to a child who'm I know will die for sure of a fatal disease if that were my fate! but that's just MY OPINION, it doesn't by any means imply that ALL MOTHERS who are told by a doctor that their child will be born with some type of fatal disease should abort.. If that's what you're understanding then I don't even care to explain further, cause it doesn't translate into your narrow mind. Seriously. As for your comparison, who says someone's life is not supposed to be worth living? That's pathetic, and I would never say that, nor would a doctor, so it is once again invalid. A defect does not imply someone's life is not worth living, nor does it mean she will die.

[lace1228]

Obviously with the answers and comments abortion is a touchy subject for many. No one has the right to place judgement on someone without being in that person shoes. No one has the right to speak on behalf of a women who is pregnant and going through it.

[hanscuit]

I've been raised religiously.. so no. but honestly in my heart I think it's wrong to kill a poor life like that.. however.. if you know you're not going to be a great mother or father or both i would give birth then do adoption because let's be honest.. babies are a lot of time, work, and money. Even in sims games they are stressful!

[JulyAndrews]

You know that even in countries where abortion is legal and has been since the 80's (lol) there's are rules and regulation that protect the fetus.

Next to that, people seem to have this idea that women love abortions. Even for those who choose to terminate it's a VERY difficult decision.

In my country, since 2007, the abortion rate has decreased! And abortion has been legal here since the 80's. YET we have one of the lowest abortion rates in the world! 10% of the women that have abortions in my country, come from countries where it's illegal. 50% of these the pregnancies were terminated in the first 7 weeks.

Next to that we have very low teen pregnancy rates as well. Compared to countries with higher teenage birth rates, we also have have a higher average age at first intercourse and increased levels of contraceptive use, including the "double Dutch" method of using both a hormonal contraception method and a condom.

And our country has been called the land of Soddom and Gomorroah by FOX news hahahaa. At least we have our shit together ;)

[BuchitaBuchys]

You make such good points. People assume women are happily skipping to get abortions. No. It's a difficult choice, and completely their choice to make. The US has one of the worst and backwards views on sex, contraception, etc for a "developed" nation. -_- I wish people would stop being so uptight, because it's affecting our teens and young people worst. Ironically, in the "Bible belt" of the US, where people are more religious and anti-abortions, anti-contraception, anti-proper sex ed, it is the area where the most teen pregnancies occur. Area where most abortions occur. Area where teens are having more sex. You'd think that the "abstinence only" sex ed, and their extremely religious views would stop all the "immoral" premarital sex. lol P. S. Fox news is a load of crap, they are so far backward, I'm not surprised they are so xenophobic.

[Answerstolife17]

@BuchitaBuchys
Ironically, in the "Bible belt" of the US, where people are more religious and anti-abortions, anti-contraception, anti-proper sex ed, it is the area where the most teen pregnancies occur. Area where most abortions occur. Area where teens are having more sex. You'd think that the "abstinence only" sex ed, and their extremely religious views would stop all the "immoral" premarital sex. lol
P. S. Fox news is a load of crap, they are so far backward, I'm not surprised they are so xenophobic."

Really? The data I found shows otherwise. Maybe you looked at a different source?

https://thenationalcampaign.org/data/compare/1678

[BuchitaBuchys]

@Answerstolife17 if I read that map correctly, you proved my point lol the southern states have the highest amount of teen pregnancies per 1,000 females. Northern states (which are less religious and more sexually liberal) have the least amount.

[Answerstolife17]

@BuchitaBuchys Oh lolz, my bad, yeah it's the other way around. The rank was for which had the least.

[Answerstolife17]

@BuchitaBuchys
# of abortions is another story though.
www.google.com/url
www.google.com/url

[Answerstolife17]

It's kind of mixed

[BuchitaBuchys]

@Answerstolife17 it's cool. :) I know people want to stop abortions, but I think at best we can do is prevent them. I prefer people to exhaust all their options before resorting to abortions. So condoms, the pill, emergency contraceptive (aka Plan B), etc. I prefer if our sex ed actually taught kids not only about the many STDs and STIs (don't get me mistaken, I definitely think it's important to keep mentioning them), but to also speak on effective contraception methods for diseases and pregnancy. Also, to answer the many misconceptions that most teens (and even some adults) have about sex and sexual acts. Like, some people think that you cannot get an STD from oral sex. Very dumb, but some people believe only vaginal or anal penetration can spread diseases. Some even think anal is fool proof. On this site, so many under 18 post ridiculous questions, the lack of good sexual education of this nation scares me. :/ Teach better sex ed, and abortions will decrease.

[Answerstolife17]

@BuchitaBuchys Sex ed does prevent teen pregnancy. However, the data I just posted doesn't compel me to believe that more abortions occur in Southern States though; it's kind of all over the map.

[QueenB1203]

What if a 10 year old girl was raped and got pregnant? How would someone to expect her to go through that because someone didn't want her to get an abortion? Would it be okay then? I personally think it's no ones business what someone does with their own body. You have to be considerate of the woman who is carrying the baby. If I got raped I'd get an abortion. However if it was my choice to have sex, I'd have the baby. So I'm half and half. Women shouldn't use abortions as a contraceptive. But it should be an option for girls who went through traumatic experiences, they would die if they had the baby, or the baby was very sick and wasn't going to live anyways. there's always exceptions

[SomethingWicked]

Well according to a few of these people, they should have the child anyway, because 'it's not the babies fault'. Yet we're the ones who are 'morally bankrupted' if we agree abortions should be preformed. (I'm honestly glad I'm not a part of their morally code then!)

[SomethingWicked]

* morality

[QueenB1203]

i think it's horrible that some people think that every women can go through being a mother, if not being a mother, just the labor and pregnancy itself. Some women are not emotionally or physically healthy to have a child. Some get post partum depression which causes suicide, and i dont think women should have to go through that

[SomethingWicked]

Yes.
Yes. People should be free to decide whether or not they wish to have a child. However, I think, if you've had 10 abortions in a row, maybe they should think about having all that area removed instead.

Unfortunately we don't get the choice in my country on whether women can choose to have an abortion. Stupid backward Christian country.

[Selenator]

So you are saying its a-okay to kill someone then. Science proves it is a child, if you look at ultrasounds it shows they are truly living, thus making abortion murder! Sounds like your country might be more scientificly advanced that USA ;). And this doesn't mean i dont condemn rape either. I believe rapists should either be castrated and have solitary confinement or death penalty. I absolutely hate how idiots think that cause im pro-life, that im also sexist. NOTHING could be further from the truth, trust me you have no idea how much i admire women. I just believe the baby shouldn't be punished for something it has no control of. The rapist should be punished, NOT THE BABY! Also i believe if a woman is more qualified than me for a job they should get it, not me.

[SomethingWicked]

@Selenator Science proves the embryo is a bunch of cells, stop allowing your religion to tell you differently. A child can survive on it's own, away from the parent. An embryo can't do that. In fact, the fetus can't survive outside the womb until 26 weeks. Until this time, it is a parasite. Do pro lifers have any other argument other than, oh, you think it's okay to kill someone then. It's two completely different things. Why can't you pro lifers get that through your skulls? And this was probably pointless because it's like talking to a brick wall. No matter what evidence is provided, you'll only choose the evidence that correlates to your beliefs.

[Selenator]

So then, what your saying is at week 25 day 6 its okay to have an abortion and at week 26 day 0 it magically becomes a baby. Hmm, seems weird. And everything I've said is stats, not religion. Have i even mentioned religion? Nope. Look at this at 20 weeks? Is it a coincidence that your so called clump of cells has a vertebrae and a head, haha i dont think so, that doesn't fly with me. And btw, a bit off-topic, do u believe in absolute-truth?

[Selenator]

20 week old BABY 3.bp.blogspot.com/.../I20110715124714343.jpg

[SomethingWicked]

@Selenator Okay, take a fetus out at 20 weeks and see if it survives. (It won't.)

[Selenator]

So then i am right. I just disproved you so called science. Now what can you say to this, if a person is hospitalized and hooked up to a machine thay gives them air, then its okay to kill them? Because take that machine away and they will surely die. Just like if you have a baby too early, it can't live without being hooked up to the mother. So make up your mind, is murder permissible or not?

[SomethingWicked]

@Selenator You're talking to the wrong person. I believe in euthanasia as well. Aka. Murder, screamed by religious people that is horrible, no matter how much the person is suffering.

[Selenator]

What if a person is in a coma? The need the help of machines, as a baby does of its mother. And yes authenasia is murder (now a brain dead person no, thats different, they have no hope). So i think its safe to say u support murder. And by the way what is your religion? Or are u atheist, cause i have nothing against any religion, other than terrorism.

[Selenator]

Im not biased with religion, i treat everyone equal. I respect everyones beliefs. Im just saying im sorry but i can't support murder

[SomethingWicked]

@Selenator Since when was terrorism a religion? Also, one man's terrorist another mans freedom fighter. You just advocated murder for those that are brain dead though? Atheism isn't a religion either, it's the opposite. There is no belief system there.

[Selenator]

Brain dead people are already dead. A baby at 20 weeks is developing and can move, has brain activity, and has a heartbeat. Terrorism is muslim extremists killing others so they can have a better afterlife, with something like 72 virgins. And both cannot be right, either terrorists are killers, or freedom fighters they cannot be both. The law of non-contradiction clearly says something cannot be both yes or no. So they are either freedom fighters or they arent. They is no in between. This is also proven by the law of the excluded middle ;)

[SomethingWicked]

@Selenator By the British government, the IRA are terrorists Yet by Irish law, the British government is the terrorists. Neither has been exclusively agreed. The world sees the IRA as terrorists, yet, by Irish law, the British are terroristhe terrorists. The law of non contradictions, is only a notion.

[Selenator]

Fine then, how do you know the law of non-contradictions is only a notion, besides if thats the case i can say its a fact, and we are both right. Thus is you say 1+1=2 and i say 1+1=3 and we are both right. "It states that contradictory statements cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time, e. g. the two propositions "A is B" and "A is not B" are mutually exclusive."

[SomethingWicked]

@selenator Except the human race is nothing bar contradictions anyway, and although, 'logically' and in 'theory' you can claim that, practice shows otherwise.

[Selenator]

So basically we can't know anything for sure according to you. Then how should we make our laws? Whos opinion should we go by? The majority? No, because racism was wrong, and was at one time supported by the majority. The minority? No because forcing people to convert to Islam, isn't right or just. So what do u base your morals off of? And how do u figure out and determine what is and isn't permissible in a country?

[Selenator]

Racism is wrong*

[SomethingWicked]

Morals is empathy, laws have always been made by the majority, it is only recently that they go by what it 'fair', you also realise that a lot of lass are vague and are left up to a judges interpretation, which then sets the precedent for laws, you do know this right?

[SomethingWicked]

Laws *

[AnayaWilliams]

No I don't, your baby has a right to live. Even if you weren't careful or using protection and you are pregnant it is still your baby and you still have responsibility for it. Abortion is never an option. If you didn't really want the baby in the first place then maybe you shouldn't have been having sex to begin with. The baby deserves a life not to be killed.

[psychobarbiex]

Yes. Most abortions are performed in the first trimester and its an objective fact the fetus is physically unable to feel pain until 20-24 weeks, so there's no cruelty.

It's an undeveloped tad pool. Basically a parasite and the host has every right to cut it out until it can survive on its own

[cipher42]

Psh, we all know science is just lies spread by a massive underground government conspiracy.

[psychobarbiex]

@cipher42 ikr? Just like Satan put the dinosaurs here to trick us

[CommieDearest]

Yes you are the only one who thinks @Topknots is a cunt, her answer is correct btw. Why fucking ask if you don't want to hear other viewpoints?

Don't be so pathetic.

[topknots]

Hey that's me! Thank you much. :) I'll admit I'm a bit ruthless in my debating but these things get me so riled up!

[CommieDearest]

@topknots just report that update he's being ridiculous.

[CommieDearest]

Ps as a new member already talking shit, he'll be gone within 48 hours I guaranfuckingtee it.

[a-wish]

he's only speaking the truth :)

[CommieDearest]

@A-wish it's pretty childish to ask a question solely to bait people into name-calling whine traps. If you guys don't like her: block her, or disagree.

[topknots]

My opinions happen to be blatantly honest. I would apologize for that, but the reality is I'm really not all that sorry. I don't antagonize people. I don't call people mean names. I may say their opinion or viewpoint is shit, but I never directly attack them. Calling me a cunt... now who is being the asshole?

[topknots]

... so I may have said a mean name by saying 'who is the asshole' but I think that's justified. Right? RIGHT?

[CommieDearest]

@Topknots and he wouldn't even say it TO YOU. Just put it in an update. What is he so afraid of lmao. Dude wouldn't even comment on your opinion he got his little minion to do that for him. This whole thing is hilarious and kinda pitiful.

[SomethingWicked]

I wish I could up vote this comment more than once... also, not a hard guess on the girl and guy who down voted you!

[topknots]

@SometingWicked D'awww. You're too sweet to me.

[topknots]

Oops. @SomethingWicked *

[topknots]

A zygote legal for abortion cannot sustain life by itself, therefore it is completely part of the mother. It is the mother's choice what she does in the first trimester. Why do you all care so much about someone else's decision?

[SomethingWicked]

Because they're self righteous and uninformed.

[topknots]

@SomethingWicked It's disgusting. I walk into Planned Parenthood to get birth control and there are anti-abortionists sitting outside in lawn chairs and signs jumping down my throat saying abortion is not the right way. Chill brah, I'm not pregnant!

[isaynononono]

@SomethingWicked and you're God and has total right to judge them?

[topknots]

I think we begin to have the 'okay' to judge when I have people attacking me for aborting my child that doesn't even exist

[SomethingWicked]

Women can't even get abortions in my country, they've on, y now made it legal to get abortions for medical reasons. I had a friend die because she couldn't get an abortion here, so had to travel to Scotland, and she died on the way to the clinic. So pro-lifers fuck me off, especially when they spew hate about people who get abortions should be killed. Pro-life my fucking ass.

[topknots]

I don't even know why I try with these questions. They just end up pissing me off.

[SomethingWicked]

Same here.

[SomethingWicked]

Especially the ones who say something like, don't have sex if you're not willing to look after the baby, then back track, oh, I'm just saying what I would do... No, your first answer paints you exactly as you think, for everyone. They said/I said it was only my opinion. Yeah, and in my opinion, you're wrong, self deluded, self-righteous, and wrong.

[topknots]

@SomethingWicked I just don't get the ones that seemingly go around when I ask if a woman willingly gets pregnant but the pregnancy is killing her. They are pro-LIFE, so why are they so intent on killing two "human beings" instead of just one? a-wish also just messaged me, saying "I don't like you." Lol well shit. Join the club.

[SomethingWicked]

They're not pro-life. They're pro my opinion andfuck what you think because I grew up believing this therefore I'm right, without any evidence in my side, also, there is always ADOPTION, because that service hasn't been strained beyond comprehension, and isn't failing those who are in the system AT ALL.

[topknots]

@SomethingWicked I WORK with that system. It's a joke. I would never put my kid up for adoption. I'd get rid of a bunch of cells before I would put a child through emotional turmoil for the rest of their life.

[SomethingWicked]

I know all to well. Here the system is a fucking joke too, they take kids of loving parents (easier to adopt them off when they don't have any issues, and they get bonuses for getting kids adopted), and leave kids with fucked up parents there, which results in a lot of abuse, and increasing, murders. Which then leads to people saying the system failed, why? Until the next great news story comes along and it's swept under the rug and continues along those merry lines again.

[TheDevoted]

That was very beautifully said, and asked. I feel no need to add to the conversation besides saying that. Have a great day everyone!

[topknots]

@TheDevoted Thanks girl. Welcome to the site! I promise we're not all assholes.

[Creole_Flavor]

I'm neutral I don't care what a woman does with her body I'm not for it or against it just is not an issue for me. I hate how people debate about shit like this. It won't change anything. It is legal so it will happen and if it wasn't women would still find a way to get it done. I don't concern myself with other women's choices and I wish people would do the same.

[SomethingWicked]

It's not legal in my country. Lately a lot of women are getting 'back street abortions', out on a ship on the Irish sea. You can just imagine how a lot of them are turning out!

[Creole_Flavor]

I would be skeptical about that kind of like how women go to foreign countries for cheaper implants and tummy tucks and end up with a bad operation. This is another reason why as long as it is legal it can be regulated for safety.

[Nylena]

not a fan of it but I think there are situations where it is ok

[jannii]

no!
everyone has the right to live
you can't destroy that even before they were given the chance...

[SomethingWicked]

Right, you either carry this baby and you both die, or, you have an abortion to save your life. Would you honestly say that you would choose death for both of you?

[overcoatandhat]

Completely agree its not the baby's fault. And by getting an abortion you are killing the baby and there is no difference between that and murder!!

[SomethingWicked]

One is a living breathing, able to survive on its own person, the other is an agglomeration of cells. It is not the same thing.

[jannii]

i would put my life on the line for my future child. i'm sure a lot of people will agree with me. also, having an abortion is considered murder. you killed someone. just because they're in the womb doesn't mean they're not humans too. they have a beating heart, they can move the way we do and they have feelings as well. having an abortion shouldn't be legal. if you think you're not a capable mother then put them up for a foster family who might be able to do better than you, but don't kill the poor child that didn't do anything wrong. it's just wrong.

[topknots]

If it's a human like us, why don't we take it out of the womb at one or two months in and see how it survives in the world like us humans, yeah?

[Nokino]

What about rape? Have you even thought about that? What do you plan to do if your life is at stake - bearing a baby that isn't even yours?

[jannii]

the same way newborn children are needed nurturing after they're born until they're older and learn to do things themselves, the same applies to them too. for nine months they require delicate nurturing so they can develop and come out into the world. and are you saying that when they're in the womb they're not human?

[cipher42]

Are you speaking as to your views on legality or your personal views? Because as I've said on another opinion, in the US at least it has already been established that women have the right to get an abortion, and that fetuses do not qualify for the rights granted to individuals.

[jannii]

just because you're raped doesn't mean your life is at stake. emotional trauma and other things but it doesn't always mean your life is in jeopardy. i would have the child and put them up for foster care. Australia has a great system and thus if i think i'm an incapable mother they would make sure they find a home for the baby. but even if it's rape, it's my child and i would want to keep the baby and i'm sure my fiance would agree too.

[jannii]

@cipher42 i'm talking about my personal views

[cipher42]

I think he was talking about two separate situations. Though having been raped and being forced to keep the child could be severely bad for mental health, and put your life at stake that way. But I don't really mind what your opinion is, so long as you recognize that legally it should be allowed for the most part.

[Nokino]

I hate to break it with you but you do realize that adopted children confronts a lot of nasty psychological problems every day right? They are more likely to struggle with self-esteem and identity development issues. Who knows what will happen in the long run? By continuously allowing children to be adopted is also form of abuse if you think about it.

[jannii]

@cipher42 he wasn't specific. i personally think that everyone has the right to live. abortion in Australia is very specific and i agree with it more than allowing anyone to have an abortion "... legal if a doctor found 'any economic, social or medical ground or reason' that an abortion was required to avoid a 'serious danger to the pregnant woman's life or to her physical or mental health' at any point during pregnancy."

[jannii]

@Nokino i said foster families not anyone is allowed to be a foster carer they have to meet certain requirements to show that they're adequate parents for the child that is the case in Australia.

[cipher42]

Yeah, he probably could have been more clear. I was just attempting to clear it up. And I like Australia's version fairly well, though I honestly think any reason is a good one, because being forced to keep a child against one's will can be severely psychologically damaging for both the mother and eventually the child, something that may not be obvious to all doctors. But then, could one simply go from doctor to doctor until one finds a doctor who will allow the abortion? Honestly, I prefer the US's version, wherein the right to privacy makes personal reason/situation irrelevant for most abortions within legal time constraints and so on.

[Zendrya]

Shouldn't be having sex if you aren't able to/willing to look after a baby.

[SomethingWicked]

Oh, I'm sure all the victims of rape consented to having sex too...

[Zendrya]

okay I didn't mean in that respect. Honestly though please don't be so ignorant. Adoption is an option. I honestly don't care what anyone does to their body if it doesn't affect me. I am just saying what I would do.

[cipher42]

But the major reason why abortion is legal and must be legal constitutionally is because you can't say it's okay in cases of rape but not otherwise. But let me clarify something first: are you just morally against them in certain cases or do you actually believe they shouldn't be legal? Because there is legitimately no good argument for them not being legal in the US, but if it's just a personal objection then I don't have as strong an objection.

[cipher42]

Nevermind, obviously didn't read your comment. Apologies.

[SomethingWicked]

Yes, adoption, so, a woman should have to endure a pregnancy and give the child up because you don't agree with abortion. Also, I'm not ignorantm that tends to be the proxy setting for anti-abortionists.

[cipher42]

@SomethingWicked: She did say that this is her personal view. You should probably read the whole comment before responding. (Something I actually made the mistake of not doing, though at least I was responding to her opinion, not the comments.)

[notcreativethough]

Not even rape victims? You'd force the already traumatized woman to raise the child of her rapist? You're fucked up.

[GingerMary]

Urm I only believe that thing is alive once it has a heart beat and develops into a feotus. This should be a person's choice. You don't know what the person who is pregnant is going through. So who are you to judge. No I agree with abortions. If a person wants to do it or needs to do it then they have the damn right too. Its their body and they will deal with the consequences of their actions. I get so annoyed with narrow mindedness.

[gotc147]

So the person being killed doesn't get a say in whether they live or die?

[GingerMary]

That thing isn't even aware of its own life. its not like that thing screams and cries when you take it out of you. Either way people, should be avoiding unwanted pregancies so that they don't even have to have an abortiong. But if somebody has to do it then why judge them? What , are we suddenly God now that we judge what is right and wrong? . It should be an individual's choice. You don't know what someone else is going through.

[lace1228]

The heart beats at 5 weeks. Most women don't know they are pregnant until after that.

[GingerMary]

People find out at 2 to 3 weeks. And either way. That thing isn't even aware of it own life.

[amandagayle252074]

After being raped I became pro choice.

[gotc147]

Under any and all circumstances? If a woman just sleeps around and doesn't take any birth control and gets pregnant she should be able to abort the baby?

[amandagayle252074]

I mean that's the choices she makes no one should have the right to tell her she isn't allowed to make that choice. Yeah it's selfish and I don't necessarily agree with it but it's her life and her choices she'll have to live with.

[mutedaisy]

It's a necessary evil in this world.

[PrettyBama]

theyre 100% acceptable.

[PrettyBama]

when safely done

[a-wish]

if someone gave birth and then decided they didn't want there kid anymore and killed it would that be acceptable? its the same thing:L

[PrettyBama]

nooooo. but thats not what abortion is. is it, my love? @a-wish

[Izzex3]

@a-wish That's not the same thing at all.

[SomethingWicked]

@A-wish They are in no way the same thing. A new born has the ability to survive without the mother, an embryo is just an agglomeration of cells.

[been_waiting]

Depends on the circumstance

[CuriousCatbug]

Im for it.
i believe it is the parents choice in the matter... better no child than one brought up into pain and from hate and anger

[Autumn_stone]

i believe in certain circumstances that it is acceptable. like say if you were raped. especially by a family member. but if it was just a mistake because you chose not to use protection because of the "heat of the moment" then no, you need to deal with your consequences.

[JuliexDeath]

It depends.
If the woman was raped, she shouldn't have the product of such an horrible act.
But if she got pregnant because she doesn't take her pills and neither uses any other protection, she must take responsibility and deal with having a kid that she didn't even wanted.

[JackKerouac77]

First of all, nobody's "for" abortions in the sense that they just WANT people to go get abortions as a form of birth control.

How I understand "pro-choice" is that the decision is left up to the woman (whom the baby is growing inside) as to whether she would like to terminate the pregnancy or not.

I am completely against abortion on moral and ethical grounds, but it's never going to be illegal and people are never going to stop having them. Even before Roe v. Wade, people got illegal abortions that sometimes killed the mother. It won't go away. This is a brutal reality of life that you will eventually have to accept.

Do your part by:
1) Not getting an abortion
2) Adopting a child
3) Being a foster parent for some time in your life to help adopted children
4) Being sympathetic and supportive to pregnant women who may or may not be able to fully handle the responsibility yet.

I always say that I'm Pro-Life because I'm Pro-Choice. Make sense?

[rjroy3]

For it in special cases like rape, incest, protecting life of the mother. Something outside of the parents just not wanting the responsibility of a child

[rjroy3]

I think abortion is wrong, but in certain circumstances it is morally forgivable. My life long best friend was a child that came from rape and I'm thankful everyday that his mom didn't abort him. Otherwise I would never have met him.

[cipher42]

Are we talking legally or just your personal views?

[rjroy3]

Are you referring to initial comment or my second? @cipher42

[cipher42]

In general. Your general point of view on abortion. It's clear you oppose it, but what do you believe about its legality? Because the two are entirely different, and create different arguments.

[rjroy3]

Legally I think it should be limited for specific scenarios and not open to parents that just don't want the responsibility of raising a child. @cipher42

[cipher42]

But at least in the US, that's not an option constitutionally. The major issue in Roe v. Wade was that the 14th amendment's providing individual liberties included the right to privacy, which meant that the reason for the abortion doesn't affect its legality. So unless you think you know better than the Supreme Court, you can't argue about situational legality in the US in those terms.

[rjroy3]

The question wasn't about "what the law is" it was about "do you agree with it?" I don't agree with it as it is, and the Supreme Court while having the power to make that decision does not mean they were right. They are just people like you and me, put in position by the President as well as the senate. Last I checked, they make bad decisions too. That's why we are in debt as a country. @cipher42

[rjroy3]

But yes. For you, it's a good thing I don't have say on that front because you and I seem to disagree on this.

[cipher42]

They are people who have been extensively educated in the meaning of the Constitution. Abortion is Constitutional, and placing restrictions on it based on the reason/circumstances around an abortion is unconstitutional, so if you agree with placing such limits you disagree with the Constitution. The Constitution means, in effect, what the SCOTUS interprets it to mean, and I find that they are relatively trustworthy, particularly when a good majority of the judges are on one side (Roe v. Wade was 7-2).

[rjroy3]

@cipher42 Just because they know the meaning of it, do not mean they agree with or abide by it in all situations. We have a president who has gone against it several times, so if he is the one appointing judges, it's not a stretch to think he'd appoint people who would do the same. And abortion was decided to be constitutional in 1973, while the constitution is much much older. What I disagree with is the decision to make abortion constitutional.

[rjroy3]

*does not

[cipher42]

Look, they are the experts. If you want to disagree, that's all well and good, but it doesn't change anything. The President's job isn't to know the exact meaning of the constitution. A Supreme Court justice's job is. They have the most credibility out of anyone about what the Constitution means. I trust their opinion above all others's, aside from perhaps those who have spent years and years studying specifically the Constitution. And so should any reasonable person.

[cipher42]

Basically, if not them, who? Who else am I supposed to listen to? If you could provide me alternate sources or equal experience and credibility, that would be great. But too few of those exist.

[rjroy3]

@cipher42 I don't think you understand the point to this post. That's why we are going in a circle. I'm simply expressing a different view than yours. I'm not claiming that your view is wrong, just that I disagree. It's like comparing favorite colors. I think blue is the best color in the rainbow. It's awesome. That doesn't mean that if your favorite color is yellow that you are wrong because blue is obviously better. It's an opinion and nothing more. I know that I personally can't change it, but that's not my goal. You place your complete trust in the supreme court. I don't. Simple as that. I will never put my complete trust in an elected official, because all of them have and do things that I disagree with at some point. So to claim that I should trust everything the rule as law as "what's best" for all is silly. Because the next people in charge might feel the same way I do. We aren't all the same, nor should we be.

[rjroy3]

We elect people that we believe will fight for what we ourselves believe to be right. That is the point of elections. We all have the same goal. We want what's best for the country, we just disagree what the best thing is

[cipher42]

I don't care if you have a different personal view than mine. I care if you have a different view on it's legality, despite the best source on these matters supporting me. It's like disbelieving climate change because your personal beliefs tell you scientists are fallible and you know better than them. I can't stand that sort of thing. Again, if not the Supreme Court, who?

[rjroy3]

@cipher42 The Supreme Court should have that decision. We need a new Supreme Court. And a different view on legality is still a different view. So you do in fact have a problem I have a different view than yours. Your words. And deciding what's moral is different than observing and evaluating factual evidence in science. Climate is always changing that is a fact. Global Warming is a theory, which is not proven as the cause. So I agree with them on the outcome, just not the cause. Because they don't have enough evidence to support their theory and not because they are fallible. But yes, every human is fallible but I don't claim to know better. You pull that assumption because I don't agree with your conclusions

[questioner1991]

No, I don't. I feel like it disrespects life and nature.

[Wh1teRabb1t]

I think abortion is wrong. However, if the mother's life is in danger then that's a different story.

[Izzex3]

I'm pro choice.

[CommieKiller]

Nope, it's murder. Plain and simple. Anyone who tries to justify it is an accomplice to murder.

[ScruffyNerfHerder]

The way I think of it is this: regardless of whether I agree with it or not, do I think other people should have the right to make their own choices in their lives?

It seems to me, the debate on abortion is far more about imposing one's viewpoint on others than it is about the fetus.

[Deadinside10]

Most leftists are only pro choice for murder anything else they hate like guns religious freedom and hate America itself and want thier own nation ugh.

[cipher42]

And most rightists are only pro life when it comes to abortion, and they dislike gun control and universal health care. At least the left's point is rational. You forgot the MY BODY part.

[topknots]

Oh stop. I'm pro-guns, pro-religious freedom, and pro-choice.

[Deadinside10]

Rational ok you dont want a baby keep you're pants up rape however is a different case and yes im jewish I abhor gun control because our Government looks more and more like the Nazis everyday as more freedoms get taken away the only reason you can say anything against you're government is because we have guns. and Universal health care is not health care i spent 10 to 15 hours reading the stupid bill and its hardly about healthcare at all I bet you doidnt know that it gives them access to you're banks and they will do to you like they did in cyprus and its people. if ya dont know Cyprusses government took out 10% out of everyones bank. so when you get a job and you put you're money in the bank because you're saving up for something then pay and the card says rejected then you are going to find out they can take anywhere between 1and 100% of the money in thier because of that law. bet you didn't know that did ya. @cipher42 @topknots

[topknots]

Oof that was a lot of irrelevant information

[Deadinside10]

Then dont heed my warning on this Government you're a fool if you dont if I were you i would leave before hell breaks loose next year what you are seeing in fergussen is just the begining iv seen how things work and how the gov does things it be foolish not to listen but then again you're young. @topknots

[cipher42]

Firstly, Argumentum ad Hitlerum, by Godwin's law you've already lost this argument. Secondly, learn to write. Thirdly, the Supreme Court has already ruled that making abortion illegal would be unconstitutional and a violation of peoples' rights. So they are UPHOLDING individual liberty through making abortion legal. Are you SERIOUSLY disagreeing with the Supreme Court and with our Constitution?

[Deadinside10]

Absolutly disagree with just about every choice the supreme court has made for many years now. what the hell is Godwins law I only know history and warfare. I am pro constituion by the way and the constitution does not say anything about abortion it was not a right according to the founding Fathers. Just looked up Godwins law and you're an IDIOT! my God you haven't learned how the Nazis took over Germany they took the schools and the health care made it all universal as you say and eliminated who they didn't like and that was my people my Grandpa specifically. I know how to write just not type. I can't believe how indoctrinated the young ones have become whats you're real age if you dont mind exposing you're self. or are you one who puts thier actual age on things? and that seriously isn't a picture of you're self is it? ugh I you know with todays tech someone could use that facial recognition crap and find out who you are and where ya live right? @cipher42

[cipher42]

Well that's your own problem. You realize they're the people whose job it is to know exactly what the constitution means and how to interpret it? If you are disagreeing with so many of their decisions, it probably means you're the one who's wrong, seeing as it's almost certain that they understand the constitution better than you. And I'm not lazy enough to use Godwin's law as an actual major argument. However, my issue with Nazi comparisons is that they are lazy, overused, offensive, and generally make you look like an idiot. But you know what? I think I don't need to waste any more time here. It's pretty clear you aren't worth wasting my time on, considering how you give absolutely no weight to the opinions of actual experts, so it's clear that your mind is already fully made up, and arguing with you will only be a waste of time.

[Deadinside10]

Back in my day we had respect for our elders and fear of intelligence or ex inteligence you Miss are naive in that you expose you're age and face and if they come for you well you were warned you have wasted my time. @cipher42

[cipher42]

Did you really just say "back in my day"? Wow. Okay, one last thing. I'll pose you the same question I posed another guy. If not the Supreme Court, who am I supposed to listen to about what the Constitution means? Find me sources who have years of experience learning about and interpreting the Constitution who agree with you.

[Deadinside10]

I took the constitution as bland as it is nothing added nothing removed I know my rights ect. and yes back in my day I didn't honestly believe people put thier honest age but they have never done the same kind of work il let you guess my age I might tell ya if you are on spot. My best advice is if thier is a law dont let others tell you what it means and if you want a better example go read Animal farm or a history book because when you allow others toi tell you what a law means you give them full control over you whether you agree with them or not. but read the Constitution for youreself and you define what it means because thye ones in the supreme court are doing what thier told to do as well as the congress and president if you ever go into intelligence and get deep you will know exactly what i mean you are young and may have a chance to turn things around. @cipher42 if it already isn't too late I am warning you mark my words something bad is going to happen next year

[Deadinside10]

Because the military knew the same thing a year before 9/11 @cipher42

[meatballs21]

Yes, it is acceptable under any circumstances.

[front2back]

I think it's f**ked up, but I'm going to let it happen. Nothing I can do to stop it, so why not just let it be?

[Nuns_in_Heat]

Yeah. Baby isn't even aware of it's own existence until after it's born. Let alone while it's still in you. If you don't want it, then either get an abortion or put it up for adoption.

[KafJ1996]

I think its disgusting and it should be illegal because the babies could go to couples that cannot have babies and its murdering your unborn baby

[cipher42]

Well, the Supreme Court thinks otherwise, so too bad.

[psychedelicfruit]

I'm for it. But there should be a restriction on getting so many in a row.
You could've been raped/life threatening to you not being financially/ emotionally stable. I believe it's both partners choice on whether to keep it or not. It's also a woman's body, therefore her choice

[ShaeNielson]

I don't believe that any unwanted child, should be born. If the mother doesn't wish to be a mother, then it's best not to have to child. It wouldn't be fair to force such a big life change, down on someone who doesn't want it, not to the mother, and especially not to the child. I don't "agree" with abortions, because I sure see the 'taking a life' part too, but sometimes, it is best for the baby, not to be born.

[KiaTate]

I don't agree with abortion if you have sex willing. But in the case you're body can't handle it or if you are raped then you have the right to have an abortion.

[cipher42]

But what's your view in terms of legality? Because if we're talking "rights" here, then in the US at least, you have the right to have an abortion in any normal circumstance, barring a few specific limitations.

[RationalMale]

Oh, completely against abortion.

If you say that taking the life of the most innocent person possible--an unborn child--is okay, how can you claim your own life has any value?

[Seriousness]

i love you!

[RationalMale]

@Seriousness And I love you, random citizen! :D

[PANDAmonium]

Yep the short answer is I think women should be able to make the decision when it comes to her own body.

[SecretSomeone]

Yes only if it was in the first 2 of the 9 months while the fetus still has no life in him yet. Sorry your poll is straight forward "yes or no" so I can't vote.

[cipher42]

That's not nearly enough. Fetuses aren't even sentient until after 20 weeks, so I think that's a far more reasonable limit that allows for more time to find out and work things out.

[Toothpaste92]

I think abortion should be safe legal and rare.

[erinikechi]

seriously? its a no no! at the first place why would you have sex and unprotected. people should think think about consequences when they hooked up.. duh!

[chocolateismylover]

It depends but yeah I'm not bout it.

[askaway2012new]

Abortion means Killing a baby for the sake of an orgasm.

[Dbt25677]

I think a woman should have the right to choose.
It's honestly none of your business, though.

[Maazin]

None of my business !!

[Virtual_Killer]

God bless all the girls/women who voted no. As for the rest, they should of been aborted.

[been_waiting]

you don't support abortion yet you wish people you disagree with had been aborted such logic a+

[Cómoestás]

It really depends on the issue. If you got pregnant and can't take care of the child, then it is right to have an abortion. If you purposely got pregnant, then you have no right to take that life since it is your own fault

[cipher42]

And legally?

[Cómoestás]

Abortion should be legalized

[cipher42]

All right, just checking. I just don't like it when (Americans in particular) oppose legalization, or support strong limits, because it's so obviously unconstitutional, and just generally harmful toward the common good.

[Cómoestás]

Being legalized, it would help a lot of people.

[jam25]

I don't agree with it if it was your choixe but if say a 15 year old girl was raped by a 30 year old man and she ended up pregnant then i can see why they might want that to happen that child will change her whole entire life!

[Steve-O1990]

It can only be carried out at the end of the day? :O. Im impartial - couldn't give a flying pissflap either way. Only voted yes to ble a rebel :P

[TheFluckYouWant]

Kay well the damn thing hasn't really formed into something. So basically you are saying that guys shouldn't jack off bc all the sperm is gon die without being born? Dafuq

[been_waiting]

A fetus and a sperm cell are not the same thing. A fetus is the conjoined sperm cell and egg cell, with DNA combined to begin to form into something. Actually, when most abortions are formed, the fetus has a distinguishable head, eyes, spine, sometimes even fingers and even eyebrows. It has formed into something. A sperm cell is just a sperm cell. Has not met an egg cell to create something else yet. The equivalent would be a girl releasing an egg once a month. Clearly an egg alone does nothing. Not saying I'm totally pro-life though. I am varying opinions on the matter, but do not compare a fetus to a single cell.

[Anonymous]

Honestly? I really don't care. I could give an argument going either way on this topic but it would only be fooling the people hearing it, not me. Because I'd know that I seriously just don't care to form an opinion on this (among other things).

So I guess that makes me pro-choice by default?

[Anonymous]

I think it should be available early in the first 60 days... then only if it is a threat to the woman's life (not if she is tired of being pregnant) certainly not if the baby is viable... too many people (see Europe) use it as contraception. ..

[Anonymous]

I am just wondering something if anyone can explain this, I will be more than glad.
1) There are many ways you can get pregnant. You might be young and stupid and forgot to get protected and got pregnant. and you are not in a situation to take the responsibility of raising a child. so dont you think you need abortion?
2) Second, she might be raped and the kid might be the product of that horrible event. do you think a mom can like the kid who always reminds her off that horrible traumatic event? do you think (even if she raises the kid) she will ever be truly healing by seeing the monument of the incident everyday by yourself?
3) you still have a chance of getting pregnant even if you are on pills. so you and your husband had sex but since u got ur pills couple hrs late you got pregnant. you already have three kids and you dont want one more due to economic conditions and the truth that you cannot give the baby a good life. do you still have to give birth?
4) for rapes, you will say you can give the baby to the foster care or child protection institutions. haven't you ever heard that those kids feel unloved and unwanted and mostly they have psychological issues. or some of them got raped by the officers in those care institutions... do you think those institutions are fine for kids?
5) this is especially for the people whose country does not provide free health insurance... you dont provide proper healthcare to the people dying on the street just because they have no money but you think of the life of a fetus which is not alive having heartbeat until 6th week of pregnancy...

accept the fact that it is women's body and women's decision.. you are not gonna go through that experience but the woman herself. and it is her human right to decide freely for her own body.

PS: look at the consequences of banning abortions in the world in history.

[Anonymous]

Im against it because it is taking a life away. The only exception is if it's a risky pregnancy or something of that nature but other than that I disagree with abortion.

[cipher42]

Legally or personally?

[Opinion Owner]

What do you mean?

[Anonymous]

@topknots
No, there are many conjoined twins living as adults. However, getting separated will obviously make their lives more convenient. However, in many instances, one twin will die as a result of the procedure because he/she can't live without the other person.

[Anonymous]

Under some circumstances yes. I am not a fan of abortion in no way shape or form though. There are however some legit reasons for it and I would never personally entertain them.

[Anonymous]

Lol I was assuming guys would say yes

[Anonymous]

Yes. In any circumstances. If the parents feel like it's the best thing for them/the baby, do it.