Don't Touch Me Without Consent. It's A Pretty Simple Concept!

Don't Touch Me Without Consent. It's A Pretty Simple Concept.

So, there is a news story going around this morning about an obnoxious young man who kissed a TV reporter on the cheek while she was reporting from a music festival, trying to just do her job. The kiss was unwanted, uninvited and an invasion of her personal space. She did not appreciate it, and filed a report to police, who are now investigating and determining whether to lay charges and, if so, what charges to lay.

Although I really ought to know better, one of my guilty pleasures in life is reading the comments on internet news stories. I can't help it. I avoid drama in my real life, so perhaps this is my way of satisfying a latent desire for it or something haha

Predictably, there were several men and even a few women commenting on the story that the reporter needs to lighten up, because it was just a joke and it was harmless. Many were also saying that involving police is taking it too far and the poor guy doesn't deserve to have his reputation tarnished over this, or to have charges laid against him. Many say that things like this are no big deal, and women, especially TV reporters, should just accept it as part of life. Those kinds of comments are infuriating to me, as a young woman, because these "little things" happen to us all the god damn time, and they contribute to a social atmosphere that makes us feel uncomfortable, devalued and unsafe. These types of actions - kissing or groping without consent, making lewd sexual comments, aggressive attempts of getting our attention - all contribute to a culture that tells women that our bodies are not our own, and tells men that they have the right to touch and comment on womens bodies simply because they want to. THIS IS NOT OK.

Regardless of gender, NO ONE should have to put up with being touched without their consent, but it does seem that young women and girls are overwhelmingly affected by these "little" crimes. Now that I'm a bit older, I rarely go to bars anymore, and never clubs, but when I was younger I specifically recall deciding that I hate clubs and avoiding going to them because it was RARE for me to actually go to one WITHOUT being groped sexually without my consent. That is REALLY fucking sad, and it's not acceptable. For me, it was not big deal to avoid clubs, because I've never really been into loud dance music anyways, and I've always just prefered pubs anyways. But what if I really enjoyed electronic dance music? What if going out with a group of girls and dancing for the night WAS my idea of a good time?? How unfair is it for me to have to just accept the fact that, if I want to go out and do what I enjoy doing on the weekend, I have to put up with being sexually harassed and assaulted? No one should have to just accept something like that.

Just like a TV reporter who is just doing her job should not have to just accept that obnoxious douchebags might try to kiss them, grope them or yell obscene things at them.

Just like a woman walking home from work should not have to just accept men following her and graphically describing all the disturbing things they want to do to her body (an actual experience I've had).

Just like a woman shouldn't be expected to just go along with it when some random man on the sidewalk tells her to smile, lest he get angry when she ignores him and calls her a cunt or, worse, grabs her arm and tells her not to be such a stuck up bitch (again, an experience I have had).

This idiot was stupid enough to commit sexual harassment ON LIVE TELEVISION and I, for one, have no sympathy for him and expect him to be made an example of. All the "men" who have groped me in clubs and harassed me on the streets have gotten away with it, because pressing charges against them without a photo or video, or even a name, just isn't possible. So on the rare occasion that one of these pigs does get caught on camera, they SHOULD be made an example of, not only as a way of initiating public dialog about this pervasive issue, but also to perhaps deter other men from doing similar things. The chances of a man actually facing real consequences for actions like these are so slim, that perhaps if the consequences they DO face the odd time one of them is caught are severe and genuinely life-altering, we might actually make some kind of headway into the issue. Maybe publicly shaming the men who do these things will cause other men to actually consider how these things feel for the women being harassed and assaulted, rather than only seeing it from their own perspective which sees it as no big deal.

Women don't need to "just chill" and we don't need to just get over it. We need to be vocal about the fact that touching us IS NOT FUCKING OK unless we say it is fucking ok.

Just don't touch us without our concent.

It's a simple concept, really.

(https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/cbc-reporter-files-complaint-with-rcmp-after-man-kisses-her-on-camera/article25898506/?click=sf_globefb)

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Most Helpful Girl

  • I see quite a few comments from men talking about how guys get groped too so girls shouldn't make such a big deal out of it. So basically you're saying that this woman is not allowed to try to improve her situation (and those of others), because you don't bother to improve you're own? That's like telling your neighbour he isn't allowed to paint his house, because your own looks like shit.

    I'm all for improving everyone's lives, so if you give a reasonable statement I will support it. So instead of saying "We put up with our situation, so you should put up with yours." you should say "Yes, I support you with this and will fight to improve my own situation too."

    • Thank you!!

    • Except that there is no institutionalised help for men because we are expected to see it as "getting lucky". This is mainly enforced by other guys but still. seeing posts all over the internets about Rape this and that gets old when most people will laugh at guys getting raped by women. I am not saying she should not be mad just that the attention this got was mainly because she is a woman.

    • The solution isn't to get annoyed with women who bring attention to the shit we deal with - it's to draw attention to it when a man is victimized. If someone harasses you or sexually assaults you, then talk about it and draw attention to it. You are right that it's largely guys who enforce the idea that men don't or can't get raped, especially by women. That's an issue that men need to deal with. The way you deal with that isn't to derail discussions about issued faced by women, or to downplay harassment or assault against women.

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Most Helpful Guy

  • I concur with the concept but given what I see to this point, filing a police report was serious overkill. Slap the guy into next week, embarrass him on camera, whatever, but this, IMHO, comes nowhere close to the threshold of criminal. Her escalating the issue gives me pause as to her motive. It seems to me that she's has her mind set on making a spectacle of this young man. The punishment does NOT fit the crime.

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  • Journalism is a tough gig. Both men and women in the business incur abuse throughout their careers as beat reporters. They are manhandled and threatened by the public, and sometimes their lives have been on the line because of radicals. In broadcast, it's also one of the lower paying jobs and one of the most demanding. (I used to work in broadcast and have friends in the business.)

    What this woman went through might seem extreme, but she probably got to the I've-had-e-fucking-nough point and this guy now will be made an example of.

    You said this, which was interesting:
    "The chances of a man actually facing real consequences for actions like these are so slim, that perhaps if the consequences they DO face the odd time one of them is caught are severe and genuinely life-altering, we might actually make some kind of headway into the issue."

    Maybe I might be changing the subject but this is exactly why rape is on the onus of the victim to prove. It's the only crime committed where the victim has to prove it happened and 98% of rapists do not get convicted. https://www.rainn.org/statistics

    First, because the victims don't report it, and secondly, proof sometimes cannot be found when a non-penetrative or even "safe sex" attack happens, eliminating crude DNA from the victim's cervix.

    In this case, though it's minor compared to rape, non-consensual touching a guy was dumb enough to get caught on camera. The woman was doing her job and seized the opportunity to make an example of him. When this gets attention like it has, it sends a strong message that we're not just living in one person's little bubble, it's our world and people should go back to showing some respect to one another - women included because this isn't all about the guys doing this. Just because our society has become a lot more free and liberal doesn't make this okay.

    And I'm not stupid or prudish. Know your audience. If it seems like someone is welcoming of the attention, then of course, why not? But if someone is giving vibes that they're not interested, making them "lighten up" by forcing yourself on them whether it's a kiss or something more is not for someone else to decide. It's their right to be as reserved as they want. Their comfort trumps someone else's need for attention whoring.

  • I agree with some parts! I would have to say in order to not have "verbal consent" you'd have to be friends, lovers etc. Because you know the person and able to read your body language imagine your boyfriend asking you "can i kiss you?" that's a tad ridiculous. However yes, for the male that kissed the reporter, it may have been a joke but it can be extremely dangerous like what if she injured him based on the fact that he wasn't invited to do so etc. It's extremely disrespectful and no one not even men should ever accept the fact that someone is harassing them, it's not that hard to ask and it's annoying that people feel as if they're entitled to do so.

    • Oh totally, I agree that when you are in a relationship with someone, you generally know one another's boundaries and have implied consent for a lot of stuff.. like, obviously, my boyfriend is free to kiss me any time he pleases, just as I am free to kiss him any time I please. However, even within a relationship, if a person asks you to stop what you are doing, or physically pulls away, then you shouldn't continue. Being in a relationship doesn't give a person a right to do whatever they want to their partner's body whenever they want. Like, if my boyfriend starts putting the moves on for a bone session and I'm not feeling it and I say "dude, not feelin' it" he needs to stop (and he totally would). Same if it was him saying he wasn't in the mood. But the fact that he started kissing me or touching me is totally OK, because he's my boyfriend and I've given him permission to try and mack on me. This take was about strangers in public, though, and it seems we're totally agreed there.

  • Preach it sister! Thankfully I've never been grabbed, although I never really "go out" anyway. If it ever does happen, the guy can expect to get a piece of my mind (and possibly my fist, if he doesn't let go).

    • Well, I've been sexually assaulted numerous times by women. I think it's because, unlike men, women have little to fear from the law on this matter and haven't been taught that it is wrong to commit sex crimes against the opposite sex.

    • It's not ok when it happens to you either, @evenlift. But I do hope that you are not bringing this up as a means of discounting womens' experiences. I recognize that these things do happen to men and that they should be taken seriously when they do, but I can only speak about and from my experience as a woman. If you wish to write a myTake about YOUR experience as a male victim of sexual assault and/or harassment, I will read it and I will try to learn from it. What I won't to is try to paint it as a men vs. women issue, where your issues don't matter because they happen to women too. Our experiences are different and our gender identities DO impact how and when these things happen to us, and how they impact us. It's important to recognize that. For instance, one of the ways that being male impacts your experience is that you likely feel less validated in your emotional response to the act, and feel less comfortable telling friends or family what happened and how it made you feel.

    • @Sara413 Well, you were the one who raised the issue of the difference between the two sexes' experiences. The law can deal only with the objective. Your feelings, while important to you, are not a concern for the law. It may well be the case that women feel worse after having been sexually assaulted by men than men do after having been sexually assaulted by women (though this, as I have implied in my own answers, may indeed be because of what males and females are taught), but that's not a matter for the law.

  • Ugh, so many words in your description. I wouldn't sue a guy for it if that is all he did. I would be considerably annoyed and perhaps a little angry... or even offended, because either way, that was rude and kind of invasive.

  • Yup, happens to me all the fucking time. Even in broad daylight in the streets. A guy came up to me and hugged me once, for no reason at all. I was terrified. Thoughts started spinning in my head, like "what if he has a knife? What if he'll stab me in the back now? There's nothing I could do about that... or what if he starts threatening me? What if he tries to kidnap me?"
    Luckily I managed to wiggle out of his grip and then bolted away. The guy was an old dude too. Maybe 50-60 years old or something. Fucking creep.

  • "Don't Touch Me Without Consent. It's A Pretty Simple Concept." #AGREED and too bad most #women don't seem to follow that simple concept or maybe it is because they know/think that they can get away with it. Since when a #female gropes a #male on average in this society no one seems to bat an eye.

    Yet the moment a guy does the same thing/s to a woman everyone wants to beat his ass or call him a #creep -_-. I've had plenty of girls invade my personal space WITHOUT A FUCK GIVEN... And judging from their facial expressions It was pretty obvious that they feared no consequence for their actions (groping a random stranger in a store). Then again I don't blame them since unlike women, men can't smack the dog piss out yall's mouth for touching them (us) without our consent by society standards LOL i1127.photobucket.com/.../ezgif.com-add-text.gif

    Nice take though ^_^

    • I love how any time a woman tries to talk about stuff like this, some dude comes along and goes off about how this happens to men too sometimes and no one cares... I never said or even insinuated that it's OK when it happens to a man. It fucking isn't. And honestly, in my experience with these discussions, it's largely men that make light of it when it happens to another man. Women, because this shit happens to us all the damn time, tend to be a little more sympathetic. of course, there are exceptions to every generalization.

    • Well maybe if people cared men wouldn't be able to pull that card. I don't see any women writing takes about the kissing pranks or pizza pranks where women sexually harass/assault men. And those are way more common than incidents like the one this take is about.

    • "I don't see any women writing takes about the kissing pranks or pizza pranks where women sexually harass/assault men" Perhaps men should do that, no? I mean, here I wrote a take about my experience as a woman, since that's what I know about, since I live it every day. I'm not going to write a take about cases where men are assaulted by women, because that's not something I have experienced. It's not something I live every day. It's not my story to tell. So, by all means, if that is an issue you are passionate about, write a take on it. I will read it. And I will try to learn from it.

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  • This isn't a feminist thing. It isn't exclusive to women, and i do think she over reacted by filing a police report. Cause here's the thing, it's not about men who are touching women without consent...
    It's about assholes who think it's ok to put their hands on another person. In primary school they used to teach us to always keep our hands to ourselves. If a 5 year old can understand that concept, then grown ass adults surely can. They just choose not to because they are a-holes.
    As an example, I was at a local football game with my family, just sitting on the bench playing on my phone. When this slightly drunk dude starts repeatedly moving past me, then checking to see if i am distracted (which i was, playing that damn bubble witch game) and then he starts leaning over me and grabbing the rail behind me as if he's losing his balance... does it twice and then instead of the rail he goes for my boob. With lightning quick reflexes i slap his hand away, and give him a look that says dude you do not fuck with a girl while she's playing bubble witch unless you want to lose a testicle. He moved on. My mum saw everything and just started laughing, probably because i was still playing on my phone throughout the entire thing (i know priorities right).

    Now should i have had to slap the dudes hand and deal with his dumb ass? No.
    But he is an a-hole. He's someone who thinks that behavior is socially acceptable.
    There are people like that. It's a reality, that in everyday life you have to deal with a douchebag or two. It's not a feminist thing. It's a reality thing. Just like those bullies at school that call you names (and you wisely ignore) this too must be ignored. I mean stick up for yourself, but then move on.

    • It kind of is a feminist thing since these things are primarily men-on-women crimes. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen to men, though.

    • I get what you're saying, and i can understand that a feminist approach/reading of the situation can be made. But i don't think the problem stems from a lack of respect based on Gender. It's not like most of these types of guys think women are beneath them or are lesser to them or something and they can therefore do whatever. It's not that at all. It's certain people who have zero understanding of the appropriate way to behave socially. Or they know they shouldn't but they do it for the attention. On of my guy friends was actually telling me the reason he and his friends occasionally catcall is because it's stupid, and they find their lame ass attempts at flirting to be hilarious. Which reminded me of class where one of the boys would say something stupid out loud to make everyone else laugh. Although typically the only ones laughing are their friends. The kiss mentioned above seems a prime example of that behavior.

    • You have a valid take on the situation and there may be some truth there with regard to some of these types of interactions, but I do believe that many times it IS about gender. I do believe that a lot of times the "men" who do these types of things to women do it to assert control and dominance over the space we are taking up, and to exert control over our bodies. I assume you have noticed, like I have, that a lot of times the "men" who do this kind of stuff are, for lack of a better word, losers. They're the 50 year old men who are drunk on the street downtown at 2:00 in the afternoon. They're the unemployed losers without a high school diploma getting fucked up on random street drugs. They're the socially inept weirdos who have always felt alienated from their peers. So, to make themselves feel better, and to make themselves feel like big men, they harass women and make us feel powerless.

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  • Any forceful contact can be triggering to a person. This guy had no idea if she would be triggered or not by forced contact.

    sure, the kiss on the cheek was just harmless fun but it was still disrespectful.

    the argument that women do this stuff too doesn't mean that forced contact is ok. Its never ok, I dont care who is forcing the contact, its just not okay and its disrespectful.

  • Guess I'll be going to prison due to what my job demands what I do as a lifeguard then. Damn guess I'll have to go into cardiac arrest and drown because I only have implied consent and not verbal consent, and we all know that people who aren't conscious can't consent at all. There have been satires written about women sueing and charging the lifeguards for rape because the lifeguards had to touch their chest to save them. These were written a few years ago, and now a days I can actually see someone being charged and sued for rape for saving their lives even when they have followed things to the T of what to do.

  • Question: You may have mentioned it, and in that case I missed it, but how do you want a man to know whether or not he can kiss you? Do you want them to politely ask: "Excuse me, will you allow me to kiss you?" More often than not I hear women say it's a turn off if a man asks this, and quite honestly at this point I have no idea what I am expected to do. Should we just "feel" it or what? Or do we need to ask? I'm confused.

    • This take is not about situations in which two people already have an established rapport. It's about strangers groping, touching or kissing strangers, and on that front the line is crystal fucking clear - DON'T EVER DO THAT. It's never OK. If you see a random woman on the sidewalk, or on transit, or at a public event and you want to kiss her, my advice would be control yourself. You know better than to just walk up to someone with whom you have no rapport and no established relationship and kiss them. Everyone knows better than to do that, but some people do it anyways.

    • I don't think you understood my question. Yes, if we're talking about a girlfriend, I can probably assume that she will be okay with me kissing her. I'm not a retard either, so I'm not planning on kissing and/or groping random women on the streets. Let's say I meet someone at a bar/club. Eventually it's all a guessing game. What kind of girl is she, and how much does she like me? Is she drunk? Will she regret it? She is either willing to kiss on the same day we met, or she wants to wait, or she doesn't want to at all. Tell me, how am I supposed to know? Do I have to guess based on hints? It's tricky if she can just go to the police if you make the wrong decision, ain't it?

    • Basically, what it comes down to is reading body language, gradually escalating physical touch, etc. I really don't think it's as confusing as some guys make it out to be. If a woman wants you to touch her, you can generally tell, and if you're not sure, make tentative touches - don't just start trying to rub a woman's clit through her jeans, or grab her ass or kiss her out of no where... put your hand on her shoulder while you're talking to her and if she doesn't move it, let it slide down to the small of her back.. read her reactions - her facial expressions, body language, etc. If at any point she is uncomfortable, it'll show and you'll know to step back a step and not move forward. And honestly, if you aren't sure what her body language is telling you, it doesn't hurt to straight up ask...

  • I agree but I do believe filling a police report was taking it to far. However, I do understand why she did it considering her position. She is a professional woman who wants to be taken seriously. So she needs to send a message to not mess with her. I've seen clips where random guys dumb and sexually explicit stuff behind female reporters so I can understand where she's coming from.

  • ''the reporter needs to lighten up, because it was just a joke and it was harmless''

    ^^that's all I have to say on this.

  • Great take, which is why I'm not going to comment on it (I usually don't comment that much on what I agree with).

    I would like to comment on another issue which came up, that being verbal harassment. If all a guy does (and I mean *all* he does) is call you pretty, or tells you to smile, then I don't believe that's harassment. Even if he's a total stranger. I would NEVER sit on a jury and vote guilty if that's ALL a man or woman said, and in fact I think if a person feels unsafe or offended if all a person does is say "you're hot" or "you're beautiful" or "smile for me," and that's ALL the person said, I think the person who feels unsafe or offended is unreasonable and I would NEVER vote guilty to convict a person on those grounds.

    Now, you have been advising people to "DO something!" when they feel threatened. Yet when it comes to a woman unjustly (please note I said "UNJUSTLY," the distinction is important) calling a man a creep, you advised Mesonfield, "Get over it. Not everyone is always going to be nice to you. That's fine. They don't have to be."
    Now, be this very clear, I am not saying or implying that unjustly calling someone a creep is on the same level as sexual assault. It isn't. However, your advice people if they feel threatened is "DO something!" yet your advice to men being unjustly called creeps is just suck it up. Why shouldn't men who are unjustly called creeps "DO something?" If a guy is unjustly called a creep, you think "that's fine" (your words), but if someone tells you to smile, why then by God "DO something!"

    By the way, if fully agree with you that in most cases, a man being called a creep is usually because he is giving a woman excessive and/or unwanted (and often hamfisted) attention. I also agree that very attractive men can be and do get called creeps. However, I think anyone who believes that unattractive men don't get called "creeps" more often is naïve. I have been raised around people with disabilities who have been disfigured. They have been told they *look* like creeps, not *act*, but *look* like creeps. You acknowledge that some women do unjustly label men as creeps, but they instead of advising men "DO something!" about it, you advise that they not do something about it, but just get over it? Why isn't unjustly (please note again I said "unjustly") labeling someone a creep not being a verbal bully? Why shouldn't they "DO something?" and call these women out on their bad behavior?

    • Most of the comments that women get on the street ("Hi Beautiful" or "Smile, Honey", etc.) do not constitute harassment, I agree. But when you hear these comments constantly (which many women in urban areas do), it gets annoying and you don't want to respond to them, so you don't. You start ignoring them. Where it becomes a problem is when the men making those comments feel entitled to a reaction and get aggressive or rude when you don't acknowledge and thank them for the unwanted "compliment". I've been called every derogatory name in the book simply because I don't say "thank you" when some skeevy old man who smells like a brewery tells me I've got great tits. That's still not criminal-lever harassment, but it does contribute to a social atmosphere where I feel vulnerable, and where I am made to feel like I have to adhere to certain behaviours (thanking people for comments I didn't want) and have to just accept others (unwanted comments) in order to get through my day with a

    • reasonable sense of ease. That's not OK and that kind of thing needs to stop. I'm not saying that it's an issue for the LAW to stop - it's not, because that would be too easy a law to abuse and misconstrue - but it's up to each and every person when you're out in public and see this shit happening to say and do something about it. As for guys "unjustly" being called creeps, to me that's on the same level as just being insulted in general. It happens. It sucks, it's not fair, but it's life. If a woman calls you a creep and you feel it was unjustified, then tell her that.. Say "you know, it's not fair of you to call me a creep just for asking you out. You could just say no." Perhaps, then, if she had a just reason for feeling that way, she'll explain. Otherwise, she'll feel kinda bad about it and maybe think twice next time before saying something mean.

    • Women can be incredibly brutal with guys that DO respect boundaries that they don't find attractive. Saw this no end of times whilst working as door staff , really nasty " Fuck off Creep !! " style rejections. Then they wonder why no guy will approach them... word gets around fast !! A sleazy guy that oversteps boundaries deserves this treatment. A random girl thought it funny to grab my crotch... I snarled " Get the fuck away from me !! " so can sympathize with you ladies to an extent... If I grabbed HER crotch.. I'd have been in jail !!

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  • I don't really like being touched without my consent either, I'm not a particularly touchy-feely person, but Christ, why do you have to turn it into some kind of gender-war?

    "A MAN did this, everybody! Did you hear that? A MAN!"

    You make it sound like men are monkeys incapable of understanding the most basic human concepts and it's very frustrating that you're using the language that you're using. Incidentally, I don't think many people consider it as large of a deal as others online claim it is, which is probably why you got people of both sexes saying that she needed to lighten up. I get that it annoys you, I GET that you're a woman and you've experienced this as a woman, but you just come off as though you're venting to the wrong audience here, I don't think too many guys on GaG touch people without their consent.

    In fact, back when I was in secondary school this girl I disliked used to grab my ass all the time and it bothered me, I eventually had to tell her to piss off because she deliberately did it to annoy me, but I've just accepted that some people do it. It's the SEVERITY of the touching that I take into account, otherwise I just try and forget the matter.

    • I did not deny that these things happen to men, too. And no where did I even remotely imply that this is something that all or even most men do. I didn't generalize about men in any way, shape or form. I recognize that it is a minority of men that do this shit. BUT a majority of women have experienced it, and continue to experience it regularly. So it IS a big deal. It's a big deal because, I like I said in my Take, I cannot go to a fucking club without being sexually assaulted. Literally. Just by walking into a certain type of establishment, this small minority of men act as if they have the right to touch my body in disgusting and completely inappropriate ways. I get harassed walking home from work. I get followed for several blocks with very disgusting words directed at me that, sometimes, can feel incredibly threatening. I have men try to grope me on public transit. All these "little" things are part of a bigger problem, and it is a problem that disproportionately affects women

  • This is a great take. I am always getting causally touched by men at work. Now these men are a all older than me. I think sometimes some older men feel like they should get a pass and touch a woman. But I totally agree with you on this.

  • It's sexual harassment only if the girl doesn't find him attractive.

    If she does and he doesn't touch her without her explicit consent, then "he's not man enough to go for what he wants".

    People should figure their shit out before they claim that literally everything is sexual harassment unless they explicitly state otherwise only AFTER the fact.

    • Uhh no? Many attractive guys at clubs have decided to touch me inappropriately at clubs and they made me really fucking pissed. Attractive people aren't excluded.

    • @LightsOff I'm pretty sure I've heard women claim the second thing I mentioned. Of course, those women are also inherently sexist by being "traditional" in what they "want" in a "man"; and maybe should not be seen as a general rule.

    • a lot of girls approach guys these days.

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  • Kissing someone on the cheek is hardly sexual harrassment. Weird and creepy in this case, but not sexual harrassment. I have frequently been groped by women at clubs - women I don't even know, a lot of the time - and though it's a bit weird, I honestly couldn't give a shit two seconds later. If he's groping your breasts or bottom, that's sexual harrassment. Otherwise, it's just him being a weirdo. There are some women that would have an Orwellian world where uttering the wrong words and doing the wrong facial expressions lands a bloke in jail. Lighten the fuck up.

    • It amuses me that so many of the "men" who get worked up about the fact that they aren't allowed to just touch women however and whenever they want seem to assume we want to touch them willy nilly too. No. I certainly don't. Maybe some women do but - and this may be a surprise to you - not all women are the same.. sort of like how not all men are the same... Sure, there are women who do this, but you can bet your ass most of them aren't the same women who are against being touched without their consent themselves. DO something about it when it happens to you. Just because you chose not to make an issue out of it when it happened to you, doesn't mean no one else should when it happens to them. No one else is going to just "enforce" it for you, if you don't speak up about it when it happens (instead of just mentioning it in a discussion about sexual harassment against women...) If it doesn't bother you when it happens to you, well, great! But that doesn't mean other people have to be

    • OK with it.

    • I'm not getting worked up over the fact I can't touch women however and whenever I want, but there is a line to be drawn between touching and sexual harrassment. The majority of casual touching in my life is done by girls to me - namely, them hugging me or kissing me on the cheek as a greeting. I would not be so bold as to do this to them, but does it count as sexual harrassment? Please answer that, if nothing else. When a girl comes up and hugs me to say hello, is she sexually harrassing me? And I don't want to do anything about it, because I don't consider it to be worth wasting police time over. I don't speak up against it for the same reason I don't make an enormous scene when somebody insults me. If it bothers you, ask them to refrain from doing it, and if they still do it, take further action. But to say one touch without explicit consent equals a police report... that there is fascism.

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  • I've been sexually assaulted by women numerous times (and in worse ways than what happened to that reporter), and so have many of my male and female friends!

    Yes, there are some people who won't take seriously what happened to that reporter, and there is a chance that the police wouldn't take it seriously. But, how much less seriously would people and the police likely take it, if the sexes were reversed? We both know the answer to that question, don't we? In fact, in many jurisdictions, the law doesn't even fully recognize woman-on-man sex crimes. If I were to be raped by a woman in my supposedly civilized country, I could not report it as a rape to the police. It would be in the same minor legal category as what happened to that reporter!

    If you want to promote an anti-violence culture, the only way to do it is to oppose all forms of violence. All forms of violence are wrong for the same reason. For example, a culture that doesn't take woman-on-man sex crimes seriously (or doesn't even fully legally recognize them) is of course not going to take man-on-woman sex crimes as seriously as it might. That is the culture in which we live. A culture that doesn't take violence in general seriously is of course not going to take sexual violence in general, or man-on-woman sexual violence, as seriously as it might. That is the culture in which we live. The man who attacked that reporter has undoubtedly many acts of violence done to him all the time, with the approval of virtually everyone including virtually everyone who is complaining about the attack. That doesn't justify what he did, but it is easy to understand why he presumably didn't think that what he was doing was wrong.

    • I take it just as seriously when it happens to a man. But I also recognize that this type of behaviour is pervasive among men and frequently directed toward women. I do not discount that it happens to men and, when it does, it is just as bad and should be dealt with just as seriously. I am speaking about this issue, however, from the experience of being female. I cannot speak for male victims of sexual assault and harassment - I can only listen. I CAN speak about my own experiences and how, as a woman, they make me feel. And how I feel my gender affects the frequency of these experiences, as well as how they impact me.

    • I think it's pretty pervasive among women also, perhaps more so. There are two obvious reasons for this, which I don't think anyone would deny: firstly, while there is debate whether males are taught enough about the importance of females' sexual consent, it is undeniable that females are taught nothing about the importance of males' sexual consent; secondly, females have little to nothing to fear from the law when committing sex crimes against men, except in the most extreme cases. Realistically, a woman has nothing to fear from groping a man's bottom or even his genitals. A man does have something to fear from doing that to a woman. Of course, that doesn't mean that every case is prosecuted or even reported. But, the difference between the two scenarios is stark.

    • Those things need to be taken seriously, but it is also up to men to share their experiences and speak up about these things so that people will recognize them as actual issues and things that are happening. Women have only recently begun to speak up about the innumerable ways that we feel sexually harassed and abused. By sharing our experiences, we are drawing attention to the issues that affect us. By drawing attention to these issues affecting us, we are not denying that bad things happen to men too, or pretending our issues are more important, we are simply talking about OUR experiences and how they impact US. If male sexual consent is something that you feel is impacting your life and your experiences, you need to speak up about it as it's own issue, not merely as a point of derailment in a discussion about issues faced by women.

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  • ... but we are taught that being assertive and aggressive in nature is what is attractive to you ladies,

    and that "asking permission" is a mood-killer and an attraction-killer of any attraction she may have had. :-P

    #SarcasmStatedAbove

  • I agree, it's sexual assault, unfortunately women are much more likely to randomly kiss a stranger then men... this needs to go both directions.

    • So do something about it when you see it happen or it happens to you... No one said we shouldn't care when it happens to men.

    • What, precisely, does a gentleman do when it happens to him? It is a societal expectation that man will enjoy it, and therefor should do nothing about it.

    • Well first off, challenge that social assumption by saying you don't like it... second, do what you feel will be most useful, whether it's filing a report, simply stating that you're not ok with that, causing a fuss, or writing about it online or elsewhere. How you choose to respond is up to you. I agree that it is a problem that people don't take it seriously, or assume a man ALWAYS wants that type of attention. That's not going to change until MEN force it to change. Just like many of the issues that plagued women for centuries never changed until WOMEN forced a change.

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