Sexual Relationships 
Sexual Health 
I recently wrote two myTakes:
- Why Men are Sometimes Justified in Avoiding Monogamy
- Niceness Might Not be Sufficient but it is Necessary
In short, I concluded that there are many machiavellian dating strategies that women employ, e.g. 'make him wait' only serves to sexually reward players in the short-term and trap the good men into relationships long-term. What's more, women are using the excuse that 'nice guys' are (a) manipulative and (b) not attractive in other regards not to sleep with them but these are plainly false and generalisations. This is why I refer to such men as 'good men' (i.e. men with GENUINELY positive personality traits that can be attractive in other regards) rather than 'nice guys' because the latter has all kinds of ideological baggage that feminists have attached to the word. Good men are ONLY benevolent because they value the benevolency in and of itself. Furthermore, they would not expect a woman to date based on their benevolence alone AND they typically date with and sleep with girls that are in their own league of attractiveness. In spite of these cold truths, realistically it is men with sociopathic tendencies that are preferred simply because mose women are emotionally unstable.
Essentially the way things are are as I explained in the comment section of a previous myTake:
There are good-men into their thirties who maintained their integrity throughout their twenties and did not act like assholes just to get romantic and sexual experience with women. In spite of making an active effort to respectfully meet and attract women that were roughly the same age, the same attractiveness and shared many of the same commonalities, they were unsuccessful. Now that they are in their thirties, they do NOT want to nose dive into a long-term committed relationship with a manipulative, scheming woman that has been around the block a few times and with whom they share very little emotional or physical chemistry with. This is especially not the case if they are going to wind up 10, or 15 years down the road with two kids, a mortgage and the emotional baggage of insecurities arising from their own sexual inadequacy.
This raises the question - how can a woman go about her dating life ethically and find a good man that actually respects her in a western dating world that is not innocent where most people lose their virginities at young ages? The short answer is, 'make the player wait, reward the good man' - which is actually the REVERSE of most female dating logic. But it actually makes the most sense for everyone: the woman, because she will not feel 'used and abused' by the player; the good man - because more sexual experience will put him on an even playing field when he DOES decide to settle down with a woman (or differences in sexual experience may not bother him. Finally, even the player benefits in the long run (if not the short run) because the player WILL lose his sexual market value (as a man, typically this is when you hit forty) which is why he needs to learn how to commit at some point. Some of you may be thinking that women should be free to do as they please. I agree, but men are also free to pass judgement, there. Men are also free to explain how this dating game really is a lose lose situation. In this light, I assert that there IS such a thing as ethical mating strategy, even if such a view is controversial (especially among women).
A woman only has two ethical options when it comes to standards:
- NON-hypergamous promiscuity
This means she can sleep around but within her own league. No cherry picking attractive, high status men with rolexes and nice cars. Eventually this woman will settle down later in life, and will probably choose more meaningful factors into consideration for her monogamous partner.
- Demisexuality
This means she does not sleep around, ever, and prefers to develop an emotional connection within a long-term relationship before she has sex with her partner. In her lifetime she will typically only have one or two sexual partners. personality and an emotional connection are ALWAYS more important factors in her romantic decision-making than looks, money, status or raw sex appeal.
The worst type of woman is hypergamous, promiscuous and uses her sexual advantage to manipulate men. Worse still, she sleeps around neither for sexual gratification, or even for the validation of being accompanied by a high status man. She is essentially just a gold-digger and wants money and what other privileges she can get from sex.
Somewhere in the middle of the ethical and non-ethical extremes would be:
- The girl dates above her league like you described in the text but she genuinely enjoys the sexual gratification and being absorbing the awesome chill nature of attractive laid-back men. Eventually she will settle down for a relationship although she may be a lot more sexually experienced than the male she partners, even though they are roughly belonging to the same league. He may feel inadequate as a result and over time, he may feel a little inwardly resentful about the short-straw the harsh reality of polygynous dating has delivered. However, this girl also has a super-cool fun personality, is awesome in bed and makes up for the sexual inadequacies the man has about himself and the girl's past history.
- The girl has incredibly prudish ideas about sexuality. she rarely, if ever dates or has sex with men, because she has over-estimated her league and clings on to very conservative ideas regarding sex. she is sexually inexperienced and after years of being single, she eventually settles down, begrudgingly for a man that is actually in the same league as her. This man will probably have a similar level of sexual experience so will not feel bitter in this regard but he may find it difficult to relate to this woman who is emotionally closed off and dislikes sex.
Overall: women are free to do what they want, but other people are free to pass judgement and show the toxic effects of female mating strategy with sound reasoning and logical arguments.
What Girls & Guys Said
14 19I don't think you know (or care) what ethics actually is.
ethics is a social construct designed to create social cohesion and do justice to people's (subjective) symbolic notions of right and wrong. that's why I focussed on the social cohesiveness arguments and the symbolism of female sexual identity in this mytake. thanks for showing your concern that I might not understand that ethics are subjective.
... I think you mean "morals". You're describing morals.
well there is little difference since both are essentially irrational concepts. however, ethics is more of a social construct referring to pre-established codes of conducts. since I discuss the social consequences of female mating strategy, I don't think that 'ethics' is a wholly inaccurate term.
Actually there's a major difference. Look, we both know you don't know what you're talking about so this isn't really a conversation. I accept you and your attempt but really now, I've got to be going.
morals - individual judgments of right and wrong ethics - proper conduct with ethics, the focus is on the social nature of these values. as such, they can be considered more objective. however, since ethics depend on context (time and place) and vary community to community, they are essentially subjective. also different people have different interpretations of ethics because rules always have blurred lines and complications. this is why ethics and morals are typically used interchangeable, and actually if there is one area above others that I am well versed in, it is the topic of moral philosophy.
Sex is a reward if you're as emotionally developed as a dog. Relationships are a trap if you're only in them for sex like a sociopath.
Be a man and take some personal responsibility.
weren't you just complaining that girls ' use meanness algorithms that take into account muscle mass, bank account balance before mating rituals in order to give guys booboos on their feels '
I think he was saying that sarcastically to try to emulate you. Kinda a dick form of rhetoric. It went a bit over your head I guess. I will say, thank you for pointing out how silly it sounds that women are using sex as a reward system in relationships that have either just begun or haven't even started yet. Like shit. Sex isn't a god damn commodity being traded like spice. Its a mutually engaged method of pleasure for two or more consenting adults. If you're rewarding someone with sex you're doing something wrong. And if you think sex is a reward for something you've done you're kind of a crummy person. Have sex because you both want to have sex with each other. Not because you feel you've earned it or you feel your partner has earned it. Shit, man.
Interesting how a short opinion from a 17 year old pointed out the biggest flaw with @the_rakes myTakes so far. I somehow missed it in there. Now I just want to rant about how stupid thinking sex is a reward system of oppression comes off.
@SomeOtherGuy wish I could be naïve enough to believe it.
You're plenty naive, chum. That red pill goes down so bitter, eh?
Again @the_rake I don't know what you're doing or where you're hanging out or what vibe you're giving off to make these women crawl out of the woodwork to interact with and talk to you and you spend time getting to know on a personal non superficial level (If you're getting this from media rethink your shit) but the women I have bonded with, befriended and the ones I've romanced are nothing like what you describe.
Oh no! Run, asker! The facts! The facts are here to get you! They will inflict more booboos on your feefees!
@SomeOtherGuy well, for one thing, there were women in bars and clubs when I went on my single rampage to pick them up. I never believed any of the PUA tripe about shit tests and female psychology tactics until I did this but that's a narrow field of experience. I came across many of the so-called 'classy', 'educated' women when I was at university. this is in contrast to the other types of 'lowlife', so-called 'trashy' bimbos I met. I actually preferred the latter type: at least they didn't pretend to be something they weren't. these middle class women that are educated and well-cultured have all kinds of pretentious notions about themselves and other people, they are bitchy and backstabbing. men, I don't generally have problems with because they are chill, laid-back and I know where I stand with other men. sure, some men are dicks, or arrogant or whatever but I can deal with that. I can't deal with subtly undermining machiavellian tactics.
people still wait for sex these days? where I am, sex is expected in the first couple of weeks or a month or 2. that's totally normal right?
and I think if a guy acts the same way (trying to or already fucking hot mean girls and bitches) then he can't complain. if he hasn't, then he should find a woman who's like him.
A month is fair since you gotta get tested, etc. Keep in mind I'm not talking about only fucking the 9s and 10s. I'm talking about sticking to your league - everyone has standards when it comes to emotional and physical chemistry. But women by and large date UP.
I think a month is normal, but I've known a lot of people who have waited a few and even more who waited much less
Women want sex just as much if not more, can you just get together and be done with it? Tomorrow's work, time is money.
Gotta give you ten points for coming up with such a hilarious subtitle, though. Ethical mating strategy :D It's instinctive, honestly, but that made my day so far.
I addressed the mating is instinctive argument in my interaction with fugue: 'I'm aware that [dating is instinctive] but then lots of our urges are primeval and amoral. t we find a way to either suppress these urges or release them in a way conducive to social cohesiveness / harmony. To take a more extreme example, we don't resort to cannibalism just because we're feeling hungry.'
Uh, no. Women do not want sex nearly as much as men do, otherwise they wouldn't be the selectors and we wouldn't be the competitors.
@Transigence Half truth. Women do want sex as much as men. They typically just have different criteria for men before they feel a sexual attraction. Like romance or comfort or other squishy stuff like that. And this is not true of all women.
Also wanting sex is different from being comfortable having sex with someone. Just because I've got a major erection doesn't mean I'm Gonna run out of the house and bang the first thing i see.
anyway the wind bloooows... so none of it makes any difference. A rather unhealthy obsession with this topic, slicing and dicing it for no purpose. Analyze things that are not there to be analyzed in the first place. Talking about competitions and whatnot - it's only a competition if you make it one. Like I said, ten points for the imaginative title. Otherwise this take serves no real purpose.
@SomeOtherGuy true, women tend to focus on more emotional qualities before they (slooowly) become attracted but they don't have that raw physical lust that men have. women often get around this, e. g. by saying - "oh well men don't appreciate sex like we do" "it's just repetitive / mechanical fucking" and they are correct in some ways. but I'd rather be a lion passionately ravishing a juicy zebra thigh than a mouse steadily nibbling away at a block of cheese. I don't really care how much time or appreciation the mouse invests into his food, he just doesn't enjoy it as much as I do!
promiscuous women = repulsive as fuck.
especially when it is hypergamous / polygynous promiscuity.
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE 2?
hypergamous and polygyny are closely linked - there isn't much of a difference.
None of this is true. You are not getting laid because you lack skill with women that you should have. That they need you to have to want to be with you, let alone marry you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Fj8JkfhP4Your society emasculated you and it's a sick society, both you, and sluts you can now never marry because thought of them grosses you out, should blame your feminist society for this. Other men in your society who are just as inept as you are also virgins for the same reason.
Your women are sluts, not because they are planners you dream them up to be. There is no "female mating strategy" in female youth, all these bullshit theories about hypergamy, or whatever crap divisions you made here. No one cares, it doesn't matter, they do nothing but make you feel a little better about being a loser. Face reality.
In youth, your women, convinced their emotional needs and biological clock don't exist, just follow what they like and try to live the lifestyle your Hollywood told them they should live. They are not forced to settle for emasculated guys to survive. And then they won't seek out you and guys like you because, once again, you are emasculated. Not attractive, defective as men. Eww. I don't know how much more simple I can put it.
Only a small number of men in any society can resist emasculation, by pure chance of high IQ to figure it out, or by luck to have a good father figure. This has nothing to do with their "evilness", or their "alphaness", or whatever bullshit you concocted in your head to feel better. They just have skill you don't that makes them desirable and you repulsive. You should have this skill too, in a healthy society you would and you simply don't. Logic you claim to present can't protect you from the truth: This is your failing to oppose feminism, not the failure of women.
Here is a video that explains how in why in a more entertaining way.
Seriously, is this a dude posing as a woman? In any case, if you're going to tell me to stop being a little bitch and man the fuck up (you don't know me at all), then I would advise you do better than post a video where the narrator sounds like he's had his balls chopped off.
'This has nothing to do with their "evilness", or their "alphaness", or whatever bullshit you concocted in your head to feel better. They just have skill you don't that makes them desirable This has nothing to do with their "evilness", or their "alphaness", or whatever bullshit you concocted in your head to feel better. They just have skill you don't that makes them desirable ' Not all high status men are bad, no. Don't believe I ever inferred this.
The fact that to defend your ego you attack the narrator's voice alteration like a catty girl, as opposed to attacking his points like any reasonable man would, shows how emotional, i. e. emasculated, you are. You should watch the video again.
'emotional' Guess what? It's possible to have a ball sack AND emotions. I didn't focus on any of your or his points because I don't agree with the sentiment. It's a foul ideology, it reeks from miles off.
"I'm not emotional. I didn't focus on any points just because I characterize is as ideology. It reeks." You're way too emotional to see your emotional. Calm your tits and watch the video carefully.
I never denied being emotionally / self-aware. This is a good thing, in fact - it's possible to be emotional and rational. I watched the video before, I don't want to keep watching it less I slowly become indoctrinated to the point all I can hear in my head is a man that's off his face on helium baloons.
Women don't have a dating "strategy" this is some weird fantasy you have created.
Also, I have never picked a man to sleep with based on how many material possessions he owns.
I am generally attracted to guys who are intelligent and funny. I couldn't give a flying **** about how much he earns. Looks don't really matter either. I'll always find an average looking guy who I have loads in common with way more attractive than a guy who is dull and nice to look at.
Women do not classify men as sleep with him now and he's got to wait. What happens is in our early 20s we make the mistake of sleeping with 1 or 2 men who we really like early on, but then find out the guy only wanted sex.
From that point onwards we're less likely to have sex with ANY guy at an early stage because we have learned that there is an extremely high risk of getting used.
There's nothing machiavellian about a woman who doesn't want casual sex that leads nowhere realising that in future she'd should wait until she can be confident that she trusts the guy.
1or 2 guys? Please the girl picks all the assholes then tells the good man they were mistakes (read: she received multiple orgasms) and that he's the special someone she wants to settle down with. It reeks of hypocrisy.
I wouldn't date a man who felt the need to make me apologise for having seen a dick before his. So I wouldn't lower myself to talking of "mistakes". Any question about my sexually history is a big red flag that the guy is insecure so I'd lose interest in him from the moment he asked. There are enough men who are secure enough in their own sexually abilities not to give a shit about who a woman has been with before them, and insecurity is a hugely unattractive quality in a man.
*sexual abilities -- android auto correct
I have a lot of good friends who are in relationships with attractive women. They didn't settle. I have female friends who didn't pick assholes in their relationships. At all. They picked some straight up great dudes. And those chicks are great catches themselves. And the chicks I picked and who showed interest in me? Not bad looking at all. They obviously didn't pick an asshole when they picked me. Everything I've lived is rather contrasting to your experiences. I actually feel a small sense of offense when you try to proclaim women only pick assholes since I would defend every woman who has picked me and the men my friends have dated no problem. But I also know you're not trying to be offensive. Just express your frustration. You ever think it may not be all the women in the world? Maybe it's just you, or the environment and social circle you've created?
@the_rake I mean, I would like to think my luck here has been a product of myself. I certainly don't think it's because all the women in the world are great. Some aren't.
@SomeOtherGuy Well maybe you belong to some totally high quality social circles (I have my own circles but they are pretty small, not that I care much) but you walk into any bar or nightclub in UK and you see the polar opposite behaviour in women. 'Just express your frustration.' Not at all. I'm expressing an objective view of the dating world. 'You ever think it may not be all the women in the world?' Sure, but man only has a limited perspective of the society he lives in. (By the way, I'm saying most women, not all. I've met some sound women on GaG that are anti-feminist and don't defend all the machiavellian dating strategies women typically employ. It's just that they are in a minority).
@the_rake I don't think you're aware I'm a former feminist. I still like the many rational ideas heralded by the many sound women in it, but I worry it's been hijacked by an extremist minority and diverted by anti-feminist extremists. Both the extremist feminists and the extreme anti-feminists have fucked over any chance they have at equality. Much like liberalism and conservatism have done to themselves and each other in their bipartisan state. The blame is on social constructs that are being taught by both sexes equally, but they're being taught moreso inside of certain cultures. It's way more complex than "women are being shady." I could explain it, but not in less than 1000 words. I belong to very large social circles. Not everyone is quality, but I can identify the ones that are due to not being nihilistic and misanthropic. I also think you're mixing up objective, which does not use feelings and opinions, and subjective, which takes a personal stance.
See, I can admit I'm being subjective, because I have only provided anecdotal evidence. I admit my feelings and opinion sway my view here, and have made that clear. It's unfortunate you cannot do the same. You would get a lot farther if you did. Also I don't walk into nightclubs or bars in the UK. Drinking and dancing aren't my thing. I don't get to know women like that. I go to conventions for my interests. I visit venues that support what I believe in or that express the things I love, like art or music or recreational activities like sports. And I get to know both the men and women who go to these things as though they're people, not objects to bang or things to be used. I also can identify a person's character very quickly and accurately, with high precision. It's not something everyone has, and I assume I have it innately since I never had to work on it.
@the_rake. At least we agree on something UK night clubs are indeed a grim place to look for a partner!
@SomeOtherGuy I wrote a take why egalitarianism is better www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a24039-the-focus-of-gender-issues-should-be-shifted-towards-egalitarianism
'I can admit I'm being subjective, because I have only provided anecdotal evidence. '
Ok, that's fine. My point was that as individuals we don't really have better than anecdotes when it comes to this sort of thing.
' I go to conventions for my interests.'
Yeah, it's not really my kind of thing, hah.
'UK night clubs are indeed a grim place to look for a partner!'
I'd like to emphasise this isn't the only place I've looked, for casual sex or otherwise.
"Any question about my sexually history is a big red flag that the guy is insecure so I'd lose interest in him from the moment he asked." Out of curiosity, would you consider me insecure if I asked you "Have you cheated on any guy you've dated before?"?
Women love a bastard!
very true
In the dating "game", women start with their smv (sexual market value) high, getting gifts, trips, going with this guy and that guy. But when they are around 30 they become desperate to settle down. Guys start with their smv low and can't even get the time of day from girls their own age. Once they hit around 30 their value keeps increasing if it hasn't already. Then they get all these girls left and right. If your a guy who wants to get laid just set "rules" in place and things you will or will not tolerate. If you want to get laid and she is not putting out them leave her ass and try to find someone who will.
The SMV shit is stupid to hear. But some men are more successful when they're older and everything else is pretty true.
You've got some interesting points in here. I do think women fall victim to players and yeah if they really don't want to reward the player they shouldn't. However, how many of these very women are ignorant in that they don't know the difference between the nice guy and the "nice guy"? You even admitted that the term has been distorted. I won't say it's solely feminism's fault. Some of that is the fault of every guy claiming to be a nice guy. The players and the "good men".
So while I do see what you're saying and it's a valid way of looking at things I just think people should do as they please. Women are still going to fall for wolves because wolves always cloak themselves among the flock. I think what happens is that "players" are like Jordan Belforts. They buy at a low price and then sell at a high price. In other words women think they're getting more than what they are getting. They get caught in the facade.
Agreed people should be free to do what they want -see the parts about moral judgement. Otherwise, great post.
Yeah I saw.
I don't agree that they fall victims to players. They CHOOSE the player and then they say "stick it in me baby". Victims? So they were raped?
@Mysterio421 worse is when they have the hypocrisy to say they were 'used' for sex - like it's a one way transaction and they have nothing to benefit from it. then they go ahead and use their sex for all kinds of things - trapping guys in relationships, getting money from guys, the pure power of cockteasing some poor sod, etc.
@Mysterio421 Victims in that they can be naive. You think women are always non ignorant? I've met men and women who are naive and ignorant. I didn't say anything about rape you fool. They CHOOSE the player BECAUSE they are NAIVE. Usually. Though some may just like snakes. I don't know.
@ myTake Owner Let us ignore that we were talking about male players though -_____-
I don't care if women are wanting to sleep with the player. My only complaints are that it is insulting to the good man to be told he has to wait, when the players didn't as this is a way of telling him he isn't as valuable to the woman as the player was, and when women want to complain that good men don't want a relationship with a woman that has a history of having sex with players.
Yep, also you can't expect the good men to be happy ir not have feelings of inadequacy in a committed relationship where the girl is experienced and he's not.