Is it possible for a woman to give a man alcohol or a knock out drink, collect his sperm, claim she was raped, and collect child support?

[Adaeva]

Because, if that is possible, since it is impossible to prove she is not telling the truth, it happens. However, if it is possible, that event is rare because rich men are rare.

Subject question is based on a YouTube video. Pearl suggested that since women have many options to not to be a mother such as many forms of birth control, plan B, abortion, and adoption, men should have the right not to be a father. All the women disagreed, claiming that men have the option not to be a father and that option is not to have sex. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkYiF6pZt5A

Based on the video, I can understand having sex is a choice. However, should a man pay child support if his choice is not to have sex, but the woman steals his sperm anyway?

[Anpu23]

I have long supported financial abortion for fathers who did not consent to the sexual act that created the offspring. That includes involuntary sperm collection like what happened in Africa when 3 women held a man at gunpoint and collected his sperm. Or even in cases where the male was unable to consent such as he being underage (especially when the mother is of legal age).

But as abortion rights are being stripped away I don't see much political support for these arguments.

Truth is that currently in the west a man consents to parenthood the moment that he has sex even if he didn't consent to the sexual act itself.

[Anpu23]

Thanks for MHO

[OlderAndWiser]

Is it POSSIBLE? Yes. It is also possible that Martians will land their spaceship in my back yard tonight, but I'm not waiting up to give them milk and cookies when they get here! Is it LIKELY? I have never heard of this happening, and I've never heard of anyone claiming this happened.

Should a guy pay child support if he did not want to father a child and, somehow, the female obtained his sperm and impregnated herself without his consent. Clearly not, but I don't know that the courts have ever specifically addressed that situation.

[Adaeva]

There may be are a lot of things you have off.
A 40-year-old Las Vegas hotel cleaner has won a child support legal battle against a 28-year-old millionaire who she impregnated herself with his sperms.
According to report, she never engaged in an intimate relationship with the millionaire but stole his used condom to impregnate herself after realising he was a tech millionaire.
The woman identified as Jane was 36 years of age when she stole a used condom from the then 24-year-old tech millionaire’s hotel garbage can.
It was gathered that Jane inserted the semen and became pregnant with a baby boy who is now four years of age.
During the child support hearing, Jane confessed that she never slept with the young millionaire revealing that she impregnated herself with his sperm while she was cleaning his room.
“He left his bank statement on the nightstand in his hotel room and I saw it when I was cleaning, at the time I wanted a baby so bad and I thought it would be better if I had a baby with a rich man,” she revealed in court.
Court demanded that she conduct a paternity test to testify if the man in question was actually the father.
The paternity test was conducted and revealed the young millionaire as the father.
The court ordered him to pay the mother of the child $3 million for the three years of his son’s life he missed.
His lawyers said their client was planning to pursue other legal actions against the mother for stealing his bodily fluids and violating his privacy.
Meanwhile, Jane had quit the hotel cleaning job and started a few businesses with her newfound fortune, she still has full custody of her child whom she named after his father.
www.spotonnews.net/.../

[Adaeva]

*There may be are a lot of things you have off. Edited to: There may be are a lot of things you have not heard of.

[OlderAndWiser]

This is something which you did not fact check, but I did, and the story is not true:

www.snopes.com/.../

[Adaeva]

That proves you are more intelligent than I am. I will try to use this as a learning experience.

[OlderAndWiser]

Not more intelligent, but I do have the advantage of many years of experience. Whenever I hear a story that sounds a bit outrageous, I always wonder whether it is really true. And the internet makes it easy to fact check a story like this. Experience will make you wiser!

[Anpu23]

There is a case in Africa where 3 women held a man at gunpoint and involuntarily collected his sperm. Thats the only verifiable case I am aware of.

You can also See in re. Paternity of KB, 104 P.3d 1132

courts from other states confronting similar facts have uniformly concluded legal consent under criminal law is irrelevant in a civil action for support of the child born of a minor father and an adult mother

Therefore it is a safe assumption that any criminal act would not be held as admissible in family court.

You can also look at Kris Bucher and Jessica Fuller: www.tampabay.com/archive/2011/07/31/no-means-no/

[Anpu23]

www.huffpost.com/.../sperm-steal-3-women-_n_7240438

[OlderAndWiser]

@Anpu23 I believe that, in those cases involving minors, the underage boys all consented to having sex with the older female.

[Anpu23]

How can a 13 or 14 year old consent to sex? There is no meaningful consent at that age, certainly no legal consent.

[Adaeva]

@Anpu23 Girls that age cannot consent. However, boys can because the Supreme court of Kansas ruled a 12 year old boy gave consent. And, other courts have made similar rulings. www.psychologytoday.com/.../when-male-rape-victims-are-accountable-child-support

[OlderAndWiser]

The courts distinguish between consent for the purpose of a criminal prosecution and consent for the purpose of accepting civil liability for the consequences of the sexual behavior. I think it is a silly distinction and that the minor boy should not be held civilly responsible.

[msc545]

@olderandwiser This is a lot like saying a prisoner can consent to hazardous or experimental medical procedures.

[OlderAndWiser]

@msc545 I do not agree wth the court decisions that impose a support obligation on a 14 year old kid who got a 24 year old girl pregnant!

[msc545]

@olderandwiser yes - that does seem to be just a bit lacking in fairness...

[OlderAndWiser]

@msc545 It's totally fucked!

[msc545]

Indeed it is. It is also representative of the "thinking" of what seems like a lot of Family Law Court judges.

[msc545]

indeed it is.

[OlderAndWiser]

@msc545 Actually, this is the result of the judicial process at the appellate level, which tends to be more academic and a bit more removed from our pedestrian lives. Family court judges are mostly decent people who themselves have children, who look for practical solutions, and who still get maligned whenever they issue a ruling which doesn't divide the baby into two halves.

[msc545]

What happens at the appellate level?

[OlderAndWiser]

@msc545 Decisions of trial courts are reviewed to make sure that the trial judges followed the law. If there is any ambiguity in the law, the appeals courts tell us how that law should be interpreted. I stopped doing family law cases about a year ago, but my experience locally was that judges routinely approved custody arrangements which gave fathers 40-45% of the nights with kds during a calendar year. But no one talks about those decisions. It's like people thinking that therapsts routinely have sex wth their patients because that is what they hear about. Nobody ever talks about a therapist who didn't have sex with their client, so the few that happen get amplified in the minds of lay people.

[msc545]

Things that fall within the usual and expected outcomes are unremarkable and not really spoken about since they represent the norm. Things outside of the norm, like outrageous judgments, will always be talked about. To appeal a case in California costs about $ 50-100 K, an amount that few people (including me) can afford. The appellate courts here disagree with the trial courts about 5% of the time or less in family law matters according to my lawyers. An appeal is a very bad risk.

[Boromir]

In most legislatures the male person who provided half the DNA will be appointed legal father with all financial responsibilities. This regardless how the impregnation worked.

I would not knock him out; it’s hard to get semen from an unconscious man. You might be better off trying to have sex with him with a condom and then keep the condom. Second best option would be a fleshlight.

[NamerOfStars]

Ask Shane Seyer.

[Adaeva]

That is not relevant because he wasn't given drugs or alcohol. Therefore, it doesn't answer the question. However, I can understand the double standard because no court would rule a 12 year old girl gave consent.

[NamerOfStars]

They didn't rule that he did, either- that's what makes the verdict so horrifying. Even if conception was the result of a crime on the mother's part (which could include intoxication as well as being seriously underage), that doesn't preclude child support being mandated.

[abc3643]

No, not really.
A rape kit would likely show she wasn't raped by him.
In fact, even after paternity is proven, she might lose custody.

[msc545]

@ Abc3643 All a rape kit would show is that they had sex, not if it was forced or coerced.

[Leopard23]

Absolutely possible. I mean if a woman has sex while intoxicated then it's classed as rape so really its the same for when a man is drunk and has sex.

It's a very outlandish but definitely possible. Even if the guy hasn't got an erection because of the drugs he can still be stimulated to ejaculation soft or through a prostate massage. Or slipped a heavy dose of viagra.

Usually what happens to a lot of wealthy guys Usually athletes is that they get stealthed. A woman tells them they are on birth control or pokes holes in the condom because they want to get pregnant by this man.

A guy I used to go to school with was the victim of statutory rape, the woman got pregnant and when the guy turned 18 git hit for child support.

[ShadezMcgee]

No, a man should not have to pay child support if it was not his choice to have sex, especially if a woman drugs him steals his sperm and uses it to impregnate herself.

1.) That is rape if not sexual assault of the man in question

2.) It is entrapment via non consensual means from the male party

3.) Falsifying child support is a crime

[WanderingLoveWizard]

It would probably be easier just to tell him you're on birth control and beg him to cum inside you.
Most guys will say they wouldn't, but they fucking would lol

[Dargil]

Congratulations on a genuinely original question. If he were unconscious, it's doubtful. Doubt you could get him to ejaculate. But if you were able to get him to do that before he passed out, you might be able to collect some on your fingers and inseminate yourself by fingering it in. Interesting question.

[DarkLegacy]

Very good point. And women are always trying to trick men into paying it somehow.

[worldscolide]

Its not only possible, Its happened.

[Mansearching]

Just by question alone, that's called entrapment. Which is illegal. The child would be put in hands of father. Then the woman will be forced to pay child support.

[msc545]

It will be a cold day in hell before this ever happens

[Mansearching]

@msc545 Believe it or not it has happened.

[msc545]

Do you have a link to this?

[Mansearching]

@msc545 No. I read a lot of newspapers. I can't remember which one I read it in. It was so long ago.

[RoastedToast]

I think you just answered your own question here

[Adaeva]

I don't see how the following answers my question: "I don't know either because I don't know if it would be possible for her to collect sperm from an unconscious man."

[BarryLiverstone]

Yea it’s possible but he wouldn’t be forced to pay child support.

[BarryLiverstone]

Why would a woman want to do that?

[Adaeva]

@BarryLiverstone Why would a woman want money?

[BarryLiverstone]

A woman may have bills to pay so she gets a job to get money

[KostasKouvalis]

Yessssssssssss, but she doesn't need to falsely accuse him of rape to get child support. But wait, she'd have to impregnate herself with his seven though.

Please delete this question. There's a lot of sociopathic women out there who might actually do this.

[Adaeva]

@KostasKouvalis If it is possible and according to @OlderAndWiser it is possible, some women have already done it because they can collect $millions from a very rich man. There is no way of knowing how many times it happened because after a DNA test the women are going to be believed.

[KostasKouvalis]

That's very scary

[Adaeva]

Per Wikipedia it happened because the woman admitted it and the man had to pay child support.
In her article, "It's ten o'clock: do you know where your sperm are?", Laura Wish Morgan highlights the strict liability theory of parentage. She notes cases where the father has been held liable for child support even if he was underage at the time of conception, and thus a victim of statutory rape ("The sexual intercourse in these cases is "factually voluntary" and thus intentional, even if it is nonconsensual in the criminal sense"). Morgan also documents a "somewhat troubling" case where a woman had sex with a man after he had gotten drunk at a party and passed out, and thus he did not knowingly or willingly have intercourse with her. The mother also admitted that she had done this. Nevertheless, the court held him liable for child support ("the wrongful conduct of the mother in causing conception did not obviate the father's support obligation"). Morgan concludes: "to all men who complain about paying child support for children they did not want, the simple advice is, "Shut up and put on a condom. And dispose of it yourself."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_theft

[Jennz6]

Maybe

[Adaeva]

I don't know either because I don't know if it would be possible for her to collect sperm from an unconscious man.

[Mansearching]

Its just like getting sperm from a sleeping man. I was out cold and past girlfriend blew me while i was asleep. She said it tasted like the drinks i had earlier that night.

[Jennz6]

@Mansearching eat more pineapple

[Mansearching]

Lol... funny

[AmeerX]

This actually happened in a few cases reported in media

[verylovelyguy]

i don't think you can collect sperm from knock out drunk, unless its somehow directly from balls. maybe from other drugs knocked out

[LiamJHayden]

Stranger things have happened.

[DWornock]

With adequate knowledge, with most men it is possible.

[PointTaken]

It can be possible. The guy doesn't have to be rich to get child support from him. I knew a guy working two full-time jobs for child support.

[Pete671]

Only a woman could even think of this!!!

[shanshu]

Wtaf

[msc545]

How would sperm be "collected" from an unconscious man?

[grega239]

It is. And shell get away with it

[Tstrbrainer]

Is it possible for women to collect sperm after he losing his consciousness? I'm not sure.

But collect his sperm while he's drunk? Easier than picking a flower.
I think it happened a lot in the old times where there were shortage of men due to war.

[Anonymous]

It's possible and probably has happened