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The argument I wish Pro-life would make

The argument I wish Pro-life would make.

One day I decided my Facebook news feed has become an echo chamber for an issue I feel very passionately about, and one which is opposed to my own convictions... So I decided to write my own myTake that I don't really hear from the pro-life side...

In all earnestness, I absolutely detest abortion and I do not support it. I think it’s wrong to support it. And I think a lot of people are being manipulated into becoming enablers for this atrocity.

In short, you may not think of yourself as a practitioner, but it’s no less than being a participant in child sacrifice… and the harvest is plenty. There have been over 57 million child sacrifices made in this country since Roe vs. Wade. This “War on Life” has a casualty count high enough to only be bested by WWII and possibly the entirety of the Mongol Conquests…

This country. Alone.

Don’t tell me it’s not a life. Don’t claim science says it’s not really a life when scientists would be screaming from the rooftops about “life on Mars” if they found a single cell there. Don’t tell me that a baby isn’t really alive if it’s inside a woman or partially inside a woman. If that’s the case, then the only crime committed when a man punches his pregnant girlfriend/wife in the stomach to force her to miscarry is battery and no other moral crime… I dare you to convince the woman…

The argument I wish Pro-life would make

I don’t think a vagina is a magic portal that bestows life and personhood. The loudest advocates for abortion have so twisted this point in order to cope with the moral fact that a life is being extinguished, without any consent or wrong-doing on the part of that life, that we have ended up with things like this freakish display of bloodlust like partial-birth abortion.

Sincerely, what difference does it make? What difference does it make on where and what stage of growth a baby happens to be when it’s executed? What is different from a woman defrosting her baby on “High” for ten minutes in the microwave and what’s considered “abortion?”

You’re welcome to think what you like about me and my personal character for those questions, but they are questions of morality. When pressures of culture, society, friends, and family are the driving force behind the decision, is it ‘right’? And I think the answer is predominantly “no.” I cannot believe that when there is such an obvious biological instinct to protect one’s own offspring, that abortion could be considered a “natural” and “normal” conclusion. As such, there are extreme psychological consequences to this; killing what you would otherwise give your life for...

The argument I wish Pro-life would make

So to answer the question: No, I do not equate all women who undergo abortion to being cold-blooded killers. But I think they are almost always in a vulnerable state at the time of their decision and are over-presented with an extremely well PRed option. And I believe many come to regret those choices or are heavily coping to avoid psychological pain; this can be disastrous for the psyche in the long run. At some point you’ve invested so heavily in a lie that your ego becomes “too big to fail.”

I’m posting a link to a video. You don't have to watch it. It is definitely NSFW. What it is is a partial-birth abortion being conducted clinically. If you hate my position, please watch it and tell me what you love about yours. Because the “pro choice” leaders controlling the narrative aren’t really going with, “Some forms are okay but not others.” For or against, you cannot un-see it. But, you will know exactly why I stand by my beliefs.


Again, I think it’s wrong. Call me a woman-hater, troglodyte, or whatever have you. But this is where I stand. I’ve peaceably tolerated repeated exposure to your side, and until high school I was unwittingly on your side until I finally realized the truth of the matter. It’s not a “women’s issue,” it is a human issue. And there is no friend or relationship I will compromise these beliefs for…

https://www.mrctv.org/videos/warning-graphic-partial-birth-abortion-filmed

P.S. Nowhere did I call for a ban nor diminish the use of contraceptives. But I am calling for a change of heart and a rise in personal responsibility. My beliefs on the sanctity of life stem from my belief that there is a loving God who can and will forgive all transgressions to those who freely submit their hearts to Him. For those touched by this issue, know that you are loved more than you ever dared to imagine. I have no hate for my opponents, just the issue itself.

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Most Helpful Guy

  • I am hardcore Right on most everything, but not this issue. I just can't compel a woman to bear a child she does not want. I. Just. Can't.

    I understand that just about all abortion is birth control, really. In modern medicine, no one has to save the mother's life that way. And that's how, in every case I know of, they were used. As the ultimate back up birth control, so as not to "ruin the girl's life" and send her off to college, rather than her suffering the fate of the underclass, or like that character in "Riding In Cars With Boys".

    Adoption is wonderful for cute, cuddly, drug free and white infants. (No, I am not making racial judgments here, but hey, some orphan babies get snatched up more than others, and some races are more likely to adopt than others). I pity the crack, fetal alcohol and other druggie babies. That's two strikes against them at birth.

    The pro-choice majority in my generation (and even more so among the younger generation) is easy to misinterpret, but it makes sense. Imagine growing up in a world that condones, nay, encourages, sexuality in your mid-teens, yet makes family formation too costly and impossible until you are thirty--at best. Then imagine going through those two decades with few intact courtship rituals and no effective means of compelling a child's father to act responsibly. Imagine seeing how single motherhood essentially means hopeless poverty. Finally, imagine how creating a single parent child would be a chilling replay of what so many people from divorced parents didn't like about their own childhoods.

    You might still think abortion is wrong, and you might never have one yourself. But you would be hard pressed to persuade your peers that their choice to abort is a selfish choice against family life.

Most Helpful Girl

  • Making abortion illegal is not going to put an end to abortion, it's just going to make abortion far more dangerous for the woman. And if they think they have no choice but to give birth to the child, there's a high chance that the parents can become to resent it, due to the woman having to go through the whole process of pregnancy and also in some cases losing their job, too drastic changes in life style, father walking out on the mother (how many times this has happened that I know of I've lost count). I know it sounds selfish but humans are darn selfish so it does happen a lot.

    Another thing is, the most amount of abortions actually happens in 3rd world countries. Some will try to abort the child if it's a girl or if they just don't want to bring the child into poverty, because they don't have enough money to feed another mouth. And these abortions, most of the time are really not safe at all.

    Sure getting rid of abortion may seem like the morally right thing to do but I'd rather women have a safer choice of abortion than going about it illegally which will risk their life as well. Telling people they need to start becoming more responsible just isn't going to happen because we're humans and we are all not responsible and selfless and loving. So for those reasons I stand by pro-choice.

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  • I don't believe in abortion, but I know there are certain circumstances that are unfavorable. So there should be harsher consequences. If you get an abortion, you get the blessing of child birth taken away from you until you go through some sort of child life course. Will it fix everything? No, but I believe it would be a better option than what we have now. It may be your body, but once a life is inside that body it is shared space. You only have half of the choice. Don't like that? Don't have a kid. That easy. I promise its not that hard. I'm 30, been having sex A LOT since I was 15, and no kids. If i did, even with the worst person imaginable, I would raise that child. It's not the child's fault. It's mine.

    • Ethics aside, how would you enforce someone not getting pregnant again?

  • I think it's absolutely disgusting that you would actually prefer it if a girl gave birth to a child that she got pregnant with through rape, and think it could be solved with "counseling". Get a grip. If someone raped me and I had to carry that baby to term, I would commit suicide. I'm not even joking.

    • i agree, there is no reason why a rape victim should be forced to have her rapists child, this viewpoint is absolutely disturbing

  • I don't know think all life is sacred as we, and other life, heck even God, treat it like an expendable commodity. Just something random, average, that comes, is and goes...

    But I do agree human life is sacred to humans. I don't know if there is a God and I don't know if he agrees our life is sacred, but I know we agree on that. The thing is, we don't take this absolutely. We don't absolutely respect human life because we kill one another and kill ourselves for whatever cause, or reason. We even murder in mercy and we recognize there are values greater than human life.
    When someone claims their religion's idea of morality as ultimate source of "right", I don't want to hear it. Wisdom and morality don't belong to any one religion, they belong to all of us and they should be DISCUSSED as such, not just proclaimed by old books.

    So with that in mind we have to look at why something is moral... Because it's FUNCTIONAL. It's not moral to eat your husbands head after mating if you're a human, because that's not functional for our species, but for the praying mantis, it's perfectly acceptable because it's how they survive as a species.

    So this piece of morality doesn't get to be pressured on the rest of us by any of your stupid religions. There are too many of us and fewer and fewer of you. We are far dumber and much more shortsighted than the collective wisdom of humanity condensed in your religions, but so is your religion in other places, a much more outdated, useless set of ancient laws compared to adaptive, lively debate we, the living conduct.

    If you are right and you argue "morality" as if what your religion deems moral is objective take on morality, you don't deserve anyone's attention because that's lazy. Moreover, you will lose everyone's attention anyway, because they don't care about your religion, some may even resent you for stuffing it down our throats. SO IF YOU'RE RIGHT, you're screwing all humans over by bringing your religion into the discussion. Don't do it.

    Now... As far as abortion goes, I don't know what to think of it. Abortion removes personal accountability, thus removing restrictions that used to exist on humans. Humans are made adapted to those restrictions so if you remove them, we can't deal with it properly. It fucks with our personal emotions, families, development.

    Second, abortion may cause women to suffer emotionally and is falsely marketed. If this is true, I think the truth should be out there and it would alter many

    • women's choices when getting accidentally regnant. It would also curb irresponsible behavior much more and irresponsible parenting to boot. Third, where does life worth respecting and protecting begin? That's entirely on our species to define. If we decide a chicken is food, it's meaningless life. If we decide dog has rights, not feeding it is animal abuse. If we decide space travel matters more, we set a limit on the value of a dog's life. In the same manner we always got to decide how sacred human life is. Now we ought to draw that line, but calling something "immoral" will NOT do it for you. You can't run this world by being a lazy fuck. Face reality of abortion and face the fact that ultimately, what makes it immoral, is what makes it destructive for us IN THE LONG as well as short term. If women will suffer, if society degrades, if we as a collective suffer emotionally, abortion should be called immoral. But that's not your religion talking, it's God.

    • I commented on another opinion in the guy's section. I was still an atheist for many years after reaching these opinions. I stated my religious views for three reasons. 1) to skip a step about arguing over my motivations: there they are. 2) I wanted to identify my argument to a religious person and not my religion. That there are individuals on my side who make arguments beyond the stereotypes of dogma. And, 3) there's a lot of hurt out there. Guilt is a prevailing theme on this subject and whether or not anyone else believes? Maybe someone really needs to feel some forgiveness in their lives right about now.

    • 1) Nobody cares about your motivations. If they do, they are not intellectually honest and interested in the topic, they are trying to attack your person and should not be talked to. 2) Identifying yourself to other religious people does nothing but set up a "let's stick together since we're right" attitude, which effectively excludes people from your little feel-good fest that should not be excluded. Keep it for the church, nobody cares. 3) And it's why I'm saying to TAKE RELIGION OUT. You're wasting time bringing up guilt and belief, distracting people from the topic at hand and injecting unrelated emotion, and your "I believe in God" superiority complex, in a discussion that is suppose to welcome people who absolutely don't give a shit about those specific feelings. (there are relevant feelings to be considered here and whether you feel like a Christian is NOT one of them)

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  • I'm actually not against killing or death. But I want all possible resources to be exhausted first.
    I'm pro euthanasia, pro suicide, pro death penalty, pro war, pro abortion, pro vigilante justice.

    I'm not convinced that quantity>quality of life by any means. I feel that people who say this are incredibly sheltered and have no idea what it's like to face real issues.

    So with that said, I'm still pro choice and pro death. I love animals too, and I'm not against eating them for food.
    Sue me. Death is part of life.

    • As for the argument I pro life would make is "hey! Look at all these children in orphanages alone! And in foster homes and those wards of the state! Let's help them seeing as we supposedly care so much for their well being! While we're at it, let's stop demonizing the mothers who need assistance because we guilted her into not aborting. And let's stop electing officials who want to stop providing assistance to these women seeing as it hurts these vulnerable children the most!" Basically, put your money where your mouth is abs really help these kids you supposedly care about. Where's that argument?

  • Scientist don't claim a fetus is not alive. By scientific defintion it is very much alive. I am not a fan of abortion however I do not look at it as a moral issue. The fact is its an issue of responsibility. In almost every single case it could have been avoided yet was not by personal choice. Ergo they are responsible for their actions and the child as consequence. Their are conditions where it is necessary, if unpleasent, but over all their is no justifyable reason for it.

    • Upvote Not harshing on your opinion, but responsibility seems like a moral concept. From what I've seen, it hasn't carried far. I think the best argument that has the least amount of moral implication would be economics. It is beneficial to a society, and therefore a person, to maintain a replacement rate of reproduction of emotionally healthy offspring. So, therefore, healthy and intact families are needed as well. What do you think?

    • I suppose one could argue responsibility as morality but I was more reffering to it as a counter, like when they say my body my choice the fact was it was their choice to get pregnant to begin with, ie it is more about the illogic of the argument more then a sense of doing what is right because you are responsible for it, though they definitley should. I was avoiding the issue of whether or not it was immoral to abort a child and focusing more on the actions surroundign the situation. Its essentially claiming they have the right to hit some one back while ignoring the fact they where the one who instigated the fight to begin with, if that makes sense.

    • That is also true that economics comes into play, in fact russia from what I hear had done pretty much what we are doing now (restrictions on divorce lifted, abortions legalized, promiscuity encouraged) in the twenties and it too resulted in sever economic break down as more people ended up having to pay for others abortions or through the government having to take care of the many children who resulted (think adoption/safe haven laws). So yeah that is also a valid point.

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  • It is admirable that you have so much faith in a strong topic. Do not get me wrong about that. It is also safe that you have this opinion.

    I wish you all the best in finding someone who shares this and that you two can be happy together, and that you and the practice of your faith are comforted and clean.

    The only time that I disagree is the moment that you decide your beliefs should be enforced upon another. So long as you understand and respect that everyone, just like you has been raised with their own unique view of the world, their own values and their own rights to their life, you are free to present your opinion and follow it to your hearts content.

    Just please, remember that for ever strong feeling you have in your heart, someone has equal on the opposite side. For every piece of moral argument you produce, someone else has another just as justifiable in their own reality as the sky is blue in yours. Respect and understanding. Let it be, do your best to do what is good for you, and never enforce your values on another person. Present them, see if they listen, and if they turn away, do not punish them or prevent them from walking their path.

    • hmm... should women enforce their beliefs upon others? Over 1000 muslim men "sexually harassed and robbed" german women during new years celebrations. Should those muslims not be prosecuted because they firmly believe that women who go out alone at night are fair game, and their actions were moral and in line with the koran?

    • The real question is, is there absolute truth, or just relativity? Because if there is just relativity, sexually assaulting women, like the muslims at colonge who groped and raped women, was fine. And likewise, abortion is fine. But if morality is universal, then things like sex assault are either fine or not. Ripping an unborn child's limbs off or dissolving it in salt acid is either moral, or not.

  • I still don't know what to think about when a girl gets pregnant from rape.

    • Counseling. Lots and lots of counseling and support. She's going to need it. After that, I'd be thinking of how to prevent future rapes. Because being previously raped is right up there with being single or divorced as far as risk-factors go.

  • I'm not in support of abortion but I'm in support of people making their own choices, BUT a lot of women need to realize once pregnant it's not just their opinion that matters but the fathers as well, after all its his blood as well. Scinetifically , a child's DNA is formed 48 hours after conception, meaning it's a life. But "Don’t claim science says it’s not really a life when scientists would be screaming from the rooftops about “life on Mars” if they found a single cell there. "... actually I've never though of it this way and your right... once again when women find out they are pregnant thy are weeks pregnant, and as proven a child already has organs... But people need to be more responsible we aren't we like to claim people and then do the same thing that got us in trouble. The same place people get abortions is the same place people can get condoms, birth control, and std test. But HIV is rising among gay and bisexual men and men whom don't disclose their Sexuality or have sex with lgbt individuals, therefore women are also being infected at high rates. Half of the world has herpes, we aren't responsible because we don't have to deal with consequences asap, they come gradually

    • I gotta give it to those on my side as well as those I oppose... Gotta keep my street cred. ;) 'Why' does the father's opinion matter? To the best of my knowledge, there are no known external markers to a woman that indicate the child she carries is in fact his. Prior to birth, only an invasive DNA test can confirm. Post-birth, the expressed genes could indicate paternity. Not that I think my opinion shouldn't matter, but if I'm going to stick this myTake out I really want to explore the opinions people write... plus, I'm just curious. Abortion existed long before DNA tests.

    • Well, if she doesn't know for sure who the father is than she is literally putting her life at risk for a host of issues and the least of her problems is a unwanted pregnancy. Why does the fathers opinion matter? Easy, she can keep the kid even if the father doesn't want it, as a woman it was hard for me to understand that for a long time but logic tells you, that if you want to be equal his decision on wether to keep the kid or not also matters

    • I'm not sure that's quite enough. It seems that it works in one direction but not the other. If she doesn't want to have the child but he does, why does his opinion mater then? Let's say from a one-night stand scenario. After all, she is the one gestating and may even pair-bond with the child upon birth. I have my own response to this question, but I'm curious as to what you come up with. :)

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  • One thing that scares me is the casual attitude we as a society are developing toward abortion. Some people seem to view it as a backup contraceptive, like if they forgot to use a condom, they can just get an abortion. What many people don't know is that many women who get abortions suffer from intense psychological and emotional damage for years afterward. It's not something to be taken lightly.

    • This.

  • to ask for a woman to carry her rapist's child is disgusting of you

    • The most disgusting thing of all is abortion.

    • @TimeSplitters123 so you believe that a rape victim should be forced to carry her rapist's child, that is awful

  • It's alright to sit on your high horse an look down at people. You are not the one paying.

    If they don't have bread why not eat cake?

    You don't have to deal with the pregnancy when you can not afford to. Yoiu do not deal with trying to feed your child and raised him alone on minimum wage.

    Your belief does not translate to reality. Deal with reality then talk about belief when you have free time.

  • I really don't understand this hype about abortion. Why does it bother some people this much?

    Morality is objective, claiming something wrong because it is immoral is not a safe bet. I know some people who think that women wearing short skirts is immoral.

    And what is life? Do you seriously think that there is a certain argument on it? Science still not determined what life actually is. Cells are made from dead matter you know.

    It is a choice of life, not everbody is fit to raise a child and bringing a child into this world is not an easy task. Why do hou think there are this much wankers in this world? Because they had bad parents who shouldn't have kids in the first place.

    One last thing, why exactly when it is a human fetus, we should call it murder but call it an omlett when it is an egg?

    One of the biggest lies around is the one that tells us the life is sacred. Unfortunetly, that is not true

    • Hype? It's actually happening, it's actually jacking people up. Ignoring it won't make it go away. If you want to go the evolution route (which you hadn't alluded to your religious or scientific views), many species have strong protection instincts over their offspring. It hurts; it causes very real distress for parents when their offspring are under threat. It's motivation. It keeps a species alive and healthy. Would you say this trait is present in our species? I very much believe this trait resides within us and can cause severe emotional damage by going against it. Just because our higher minds can reason otherwise, it doesn't erase our basic instincts and their consequences. I think the high rate of mental health issues from post-abortive mothers backs this up. As far as omelettes go, I only use unfertilized eggs... lol

    • If you're so concerned with our basic instinct, you should claim that men must knock off every pretty woman of possible since it is our nature, and once a kid is mildly grown to be an adult, women should seek another mate to see if there's a chance to have better offspring. Your argument is really nothing to take seriously, you claim that child preservation is an instinct and neglecting it can cause emotional damage. Well, most abortions are caused by self preservation wich is another instinct also. Have you ever been forced to raise a child you do not want? Animals some time reject their offspring and leave him to die by the way, it is not something unseen.

    • That would be a silly claim to make, we already try to do those things with varying degrees of success. Go read all the "Red Pill" forums. lol "Must" doesn't actually fit with our species profile. By nature of our offspring's helplessness, they require immense resources and mates are more choosy. So pair-bonding plays a large role in our mating strategy, too. As far as self-preservation instinct, that's not even on the same playing field. Self-preservation instinct kicks in as a response to stress-stimulus; to survive, and it puts you on auto-pilot. About the only thing that can overcome self-preservation is protection. And in this country, how often are we seeing the kind of starvation-level stressors where this could happen compared to those aborted for self-preservation of ego? I've yet to hear of a hyena abandon it's offspring because it was worried about college.

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  • Abortion is used in most cases as a form of contraception in an age where pregnancy is virtually impossible when using modern contraceptives.

    • I could only disagree with the impossibility part. That being said, yes, the numbers bear it out. 95-99% of those 57 million are believed to be elective.

  • but what about the consequences if the kid is born? What happens when the baby is abused every day or has to grow up on welfare? and when they get older, all of the consequences from that? blunt but I think it's a good point.

    • Is a life only valuable if it has the right pedigree and upbringing? Is an upper-middle class (white) living the minimum of a "worthy" life? The only promise of life is that you don't necessarily have to end where you start. A well-heeled couple with STEM jobs could very well be living in the back of a car next year. And the mixed child of a single mother could end up a two-term President of the United States. It's easy to see the differences of wealth in the world, but happiness has never been determined by wealth. I've heard these scenarios presented before and I don't like the ramifications of their suggestion. It's as if to say we as a society predetermine the value of a life based on the value we place on the parents. This is already playing out, though. This is an actual marketing tool for abortionists: lower income people groups (minorities) are specifically targeted with this. And if Black Lives Matter, then why are they three times over-represented in abortion rate?

    • It's not about value but the lifetime consequences... why is why so many AA women get abortions.

    • Sure miracles could happen sometimes but... theyd be really difficult.

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  • This is a statement by a nun:
    40.media.tumblr.com/.../...bbGbaU1sg8oj4o1_500.jpg

  • I wish God was aborted! That will help so much with psychological issues too. That's my opinion.

    • Oh, I was still an atheist many years after this was my opinion. Getting pissy over something you think doesn't exist takes me back, though. So thanks for the trip down memory lane. ;) Got a contribution someone might actually care about?

    • Destroyed lives through religion is something that does exist. It's a real thing to get pissy about. But nope, other than that, no other contribution that anyone cares about😊

    • Stop. The. Presses... Lives would no longer be destroyed if there were no religion? Life will suddenly become sacred? Aw, darn. That's sort of what this whole myTake is about, isn't it... It was a good try, but it seems taking God out of equation still doesn't solve the problem. Maybe killing each other is human issue?

  • Sorry, but it's the mother and father's choice, not yours. Your religion is bullshit designed to give faith to the weak. Don't think believing in some cloud-man gives you the right to impose your twisted morality onto others. People like you piss me off, man, just you do you. Let other people worry about their morality - after all, it's them that ends up in the pit of eternal fire, not you.

    • Lol! U mad, Bro? Oh no. I pissed someone off; on the internet. Whatever shall I do? Minding the business of people who you believe mind other people's business: you need a reality check or you should do you. Because you've brought nothing to the argument other than whine about my background, which still hasn't been established or affects any of the points I made. Never said it was my choice or it wasn't the mother's choice, but I've already challenged a supporting opinion here. Why is it the father's choice? Is there any situation where the father's choice trumps the mother when they disagree? If not, then the father doesn't have a choice. So let's try a productive argument and support why you think the father has a real decision. Because if he doesn't, then he doesn't have a choice.

    • Nah I ain't mad, I just think abortion should be legal. I'll give you some arguments, you feel free to refute as you wish. >Chicks who get raped don't want a rape baby usually >Teens who would fuck up a kid's life if they tried to raise it don't want a baby >The fetus cannot feel pain, think, or be classed as a human being at that age >We live in a world that has too many damn humans already. We're over populated. >It is right that we give people that choice as opposed to forcing them to suffer for 18+ years for their mistake >If it wasn't a safe procedure we wouldn't do it >A fetus is no more akin to life than a juzzy tissue As for your points about the father, it's the woman who's growing another human inside her, and it's the woman who as to rek her cunt squeezing it out, so of course the majority of the call is down to her. If the father is still there and wants a child, then he's gotta convince the woman. Can't force her to shit out a baby if she doesn't wanna. Happy now?

    • religion or not women who have abortion are scum, i noticed it only females that agree with you. women have abortions are lower then child murdering paedophiles.

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  • "Don’t claim science says it’s not really a life when scientists would be screaming from the rooftops about “life on Mars” if they found a single cell there. "

    Science doesn't say it's not a life. It says it's not a human being. It has no conscience, no intelect, no cognitive ability, no emotions, no feelings. So calling it a murder is no different from calling the disposal of a cell at a lab murder. That is what science says. It would ever call the destruction of a martian cell a murder (although it would be bad from a scientific point of view).

    • "... not a human being. It has no conscience, no intelect, no cognitive ability, no emotions, no feelings." I've leveled such descriptions at some folks I've known. The problem with the collective of individuals making a claim and holding it as objectively true (also known as "science") is that morals fall outside of human objectivity, but they are a defining feature of our humanity. Example: So it's not a human being? Science says killing everything that isn't a human being is okay? See? They don't fit together. I quickly re-read to check this, and I may have missed something, but I'm pretty sure I didn't say abortion was murder. I think the closest I came was the implication left by the challenge to convince the woman who was punched that no moral crime was committed. But I did use "kill" a few times. So at least science and I agree that it is a life, it is not immortal, and it is being killed.

    • science says it is a human being. science says life begins at conception.

    • Surely morals and science are different areas. Just like science and politics are different areas. Science can't determine by itself what's moral or what's politically ideal. However, what science can and shoud do is to test and determine if the "facts" morals and politics base themselves when they stablish their statements are true or not. For example, a specific moral can argue that homosexuality is immoral because it's unnatural. One of the ways to counter this argument is by science disproving the idea the homosexuality is unnatural. (The other would be by attacking the idea that nature is capable of providing us a moral). So science has a place in each and every discussion about morals and politics (and religion too, of course). No, you didn't call it murder. But since you compared it with WWII and Mongol Conquests and called it "sacrifice" I thought the idea was implicit. Just that.

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  • I'm pro-choice, but I'm not necessarily pro-abortion. I just think the option should be there.

  • I don't agree with abortion. But I think a woman has the right to choose. Me personally I'd do adoption if i was the dad and the girl didn't want it. But I don't like the idea of telling a woman what she can and can't do.

    • (For the record, this is not an aggressive response but more Socratic) But is that not telling men what they can and can't do? Should men have a right to choose? Who trumps whom when they choose differently? I'm wondering what you would come up with if, say, you were writing a law to handle such disagreements and why.

    • Well the woman Carrys. But I do think the dad deserves a say. If it were me I'd put the child up for adoption.

    • Yeah because everything revolves around women's right doesn't it,

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