Sexual Relationships 
Sexual Health 
I read a myTake today that placed a heavy emphasis on a guy losing his virginity (I'm sure most of you know which one) but I was just suddenly struck with the irony of how different and comically opposing the views are in what's "expected" of men and women (by some) in regards to virginity. This Take is written in regards to heterosexual relationships.
Now, I know that most of us live and abide by a much more progressive view of society, myself included, so this is more a discussion for those who I believe do not. Below are two points, one for men and one for women, that I have seen quite often on this site, usually from the same types of people, that are at contrast enough for me to struggle to see how they exist within the same mind.
THESE ARE NOT MY OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS.
1. Male virgins suck and guys need to have had sex to be cool and seen as masculine and attractive. Society looks down on guys who are virgins and no woman wants to be with one.
2. All females need to be virgins and pure or only have had sex with very few people. Society looks down on women who have had sex with too many men and no guy wants to be with a "sloot" at the end of the day.
Wut.
Can someone explain to me, how a man is supposed to have a high number of sexual partners while women are supposed to NOT? Who.. who?? Who do you expect to be having sex with? Or is it that a certain group of women are supposed to be the ones that every guy fucks so they can get their number up, and the rest of us just stand by until we are selected by a great provider to sow their seed in? I am not following this train of logic.
Why is it that a man without experience has something wrong with them? And a woman with experience has something wrong with them?
Now, in case anyone brings this up, because I would in this discussion, a man who has previously dated or had sex is sometimes seen as more desirable to a female because it basically means that another female has given this guy the stamp of approval and chosen to engage in said activities with said man. WHICH I do not agree with because to write someone off for that is just being close minded. As a guy I don't know why you'd look at another dude who was a virgin and call them lame because that's just shit talking with no basis really. And really I can't find a justifiable reason for men OR women to devalue a sexually active female either. But that's just me.
Honestly, I could not give less of a fuck. (And am of the opinion that no one else should give a fuck about your sexual life, nor should you give a fuck IF they actually do give a fuck)
Guys - You a virgin? Ok cool, might be a learning curve but that means I get to teach you how to please me without any previous habits you might have picked up. And if you have some beginners luck, even better for me. You fucked 50 other girls in the past? You clean? No STDs, diseases, treat me with respect? We good to go. Will I be curious as to why you have 0 or 50? Sure, but that's because I'm a nosy bitch, not because I actually care about the number.
Girls - You a virgin? Not a bitch and not pushing abstinence and repentance on me? Of course we can be friends! You go home with a different dude every night we go out? Do you know what you're doing? Are you being safe? Do you not cry to me at 3am every night about a different guy not calling you back? I STILL LUH YOU.
Do you booboo. All of you. Or do whoever else your little heart desires, whenever it desires.
What Girls & Guys Said
33 68your a virgin because either you are waiting for the right person to come into your life and that just hasn't happened yet or maybe you just haven't had the confidence to do the deed while some people are just wanting to do it and get it over with but then you have the people that are addicted and that is a whole different problem
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you, but I'm pissed you didn't give me anything to vote on. THUMBS UP IF YOU LIKE SQUIRRELS MORE THAN BIRDS!
Hahaha sorry!! Next time next time.
Whenever differences between men and women are discussed I am struck by the usual premise that men and women would be expected to be the same and the burden of proof is to explain why they are not the same.
It seems to me that men and women are so vastly different that the working premise should be to assume they are different and the burden of proof should be on those who are arguing they should be the same.
Mind you I am not *surprised* that people almost always start with the former premise as I think there is a culture of promoting the fantasy of "sameness" between the sexes in this country. And even for those who see through the ceaseless "sameness" propaganda there is an expectation that you will be met with thuggery and humiliation if you don't act like you agree. So many people just go along with the false premise even in the face of the obvious fallacy just to avoid conflict.
Men and women are clearly so vastly different, especially with respect to physio and psycho sexual issues, that it seems bizarre to me to be surprised or skeptical of any example of those differences.
You can't just ignore millennia of evolution and wish it away. Women are physiologically designed from head and brain to toe to bear children. Men are physiologically designed from head and brain to toe to hunt, kill and carry home the meat. Womens' bodies and minds are built for bearing children and their minds for rearing them. Mens' bodies and minds are built for the physical rigors of hunting and combat with threatening animals and human competitors.
Is it so obnoxious to recognize this reality? Is it so demeaning of women to recognize what their physiological design consists of? Why do so many women accept that the view the roll of bearing and raising children is so degrading even to the extent that they can only deal with it by fantasizing that it isn't true and living in denial of reality?
Why should it be that men and women are designed so differently in every obvious respect (particularly with respect to their sexual/child bearing designs) yet are somehow expected to be exactly the same in how they view the value of virginity in the opposite sex? Wouldn't it make more sense to assume they are different and be surprised if they were the same? These are the questions I find most interesting.
Yes indeed. People want equality and all but equality isn't good at all for different kinds of people. But I think some people can't stand the idea that some things are predetermined in life. Such as gender and gender rules etc.
I agree with what you're saying and your questions are totally valid. There's a thin line here for the difference in what I'm trying to highlight. I'm not outwardly trying to say that men and women should have the same expectations put on them regarding sex, but more highlighting the paradox that opposing expectations create. Now, I personally don't care about anyone's number either way. I'm not saying, "women are shamed so men should be too!", I'm more saying, "women and men and shamed for xyz reasons but those reasons conflict so why is this happening?" Does that make sense? Sorry if I didn't explain it well.
I admit I had to read that twice to follow, but I think I got your point. I generally try to stay away from the value judgements. I think people can have double standards for men and women for different reasons, but their views are always an opinion when it comes to value judgements. I think it's a two part issue. Part one is taking stock the objective reality which is what I tried to do in my post above. Part two is placing a value judgement on the facts. For example: Which is more valuable, bearing children or hunting? That's a different discussion but also quite interesting and I think that very question goes to the heart of the value judgement about virginity too because bearing children involves sex and virginity is about sex. Exactly how that all goes together, I haven't thought out, this is just off the top of my head. A book could be written just about this one question I think. I'd say that, good or bad, humans seem to value hunting more than child bearing.
The true challenge is to be together with the same person for the rest of the life, i have seen many doing it with their eyes closed standing on their heads, and others complaining about everything like little babies. All my life i have been with one woman and we are each other's first and we will be the last for each other.
The alpha BS never worked in the real life, no one likes it but i call it fear and weakness. Am in my 9th year with my beloved wife and it's getting better every single day. I don't care about what people think, as long it's working for both of us so it's the best thing for us. The media influence is killing the magic of love and passion, people can't even communicate because of it.
I won't become what people think and want me to be, i am what i want to be.
Congratulations, it's always wonderful to hear a story like yours!
I think those guys want the second scenario where they all hookup with a girl from a small group of sluts that everyone uses and then settle down with a nice modest girl.
In reality, I think its more like the opposite. Most girls end up having 3-5 hookups/fwbs with a guy from a small group of really desirable players/fuckboys and then settle down with a guy who is more stable but less attractive and less experienced than the guys they hooked up. I think if most couples were honest about their numbr, its probably more common for the wife/gf to have had a few more partners than her husband/bf.
As far as guys being mocked for being virgins, girls play right into this. One of the most common insults I see girls on this site use against guys on this site is to accuse him of being a virgin. You rarely ever see women insult a guy by accusing him of getting laid frequently.
Now with girls, getting guys to have sex with you without commitment is pretty easy. Another girl isn't going to be impressed with you for sleeping around because she could have done the same if she wanted to. Most girls can find guys willing to hookup with them. In fact, you can even get guys who are better looking than you to fuck you. Yeah, in relationships the guy is usually the better looking one, but for one night stands and fwbs, its more common for the girl to be the less desirable one.
For girls getting a guy to actually stick around is what is a challenge. So calli g a girl a slut is in a way saying "you can't get commitment". That you're the girl that everyone wants to fuck but no one wants to commit to. With male virgins, the insult is that "he can't get laid" no one wants to fuck him. Those are the assumptions made with each of those insults and they are different because for men getting sex is harder, while for women getting commitment is harder.
Yeah, in relationships the girl** is usually the better..
"I think those guys want the second scenario where they all hookup with a girl from a small group of sluts that everyone uses and then settle down with a nice modest girl." ^^ ... except the guys who actually DO fuck around with what you're calling "a whole group of sluts", DON'T want to settle with a "modest" girl. Really, they don't. This isn't a thing. It's not a thing that happens. If there are guys who **think** they would want to do that, then, I can guarantee you they're among the guys who DON'T get to fuck the "sluts". Who knows why... mb it's just something about that hypocritical attitude, that they exude. (Guys, as a rule, are TERRIBLE at masking that sort of thing.) In any case yeah... in the real world, when the guys who get to fuck all those girls settle down, they ALWAYS settle down with someone who would be a "slut" by yr definition here. Probably not one who's fucked all their friends, but... they don't go for virgins or extremely low-count women. They just
don't. If you think there is ANY truth to that, you really need to just get off the internet and go out into the world and meet more people.
That's interesting. I'd be curious to see if that was actually case that women usually have a higher number than their husband.. though really my point is that I feel like shit evens itself out. Virgin shaming, slut shaming, don't support either. Calling someone a virgin as an insult is just as dumb in my opinion really. Your last paragraph makes a ton of sense in that the value is measured on which is more difficult for the respective gender. Thanks!
@redeyemindtricks I wouldn't say they don't exist at all. There are some guys who sleep with sluts with no intention of settling down with them. That being said, I do agree that generally the guys who sleep around are more accepting of higher numbers. However, they still wouldn't settle with a girl they perceived as a slut. The difference is that a promiscuous guy's definition of a slut is often different from a non-promiscuous guy's definition of a slut. Like if a guy has been with 20, he may settle with a girl who has been with 13 which may be slut range for a virgin guy, but he still probably isn't going to settle down with a girl who has been with 30.
In reality, if they're reluctant to settle down with a "slut", they're probably just reluctant to settle down with someone who's (1) slept with enough of their friends, or (2) going to reflect negatively on them in their social group, in some way. It's the same reason why -- in higher social classes -- guys who are sexually attracted to fat women still don't settle down with fat women. It has nothing to do with their OWN desires, and EVERYTHING to do with the (real and imagined) ridicule they would receive. Guys are BRUTAL to each other about this shit dude. I mean... come off it. There is **NO** reliable way some guy is going to be able to distinguish betwen "a girl who has been with 13" and "a girl who has been with 30". Get real.
@redeyemindtricks Lol, that is true, guys can be brutal towards eachother. Do you know if there has ever been a study or survey that compared peoples number of sexual partners to the number of sexual partners they are ok with tolerating in their significant other? Well, I was talking about if it somehow comes out or if she just gives off that vibe. I don't know, I feel like I can kinda ballpark a girls number based on how they look, who they hang out with, behavior etc... Also on gag when people post the number of people they have slept with on a question Im usually like "yup, that doesn't really surprise me".
Any such study would be a load of shit. The chance that people would both (1) be honest about themselves AND (2) be self-aware enough to give proper "thresholds" -- ESPECIALLY in terms of how much they would "forgive" for someone who's otherwise "out of their league" -- is damn near zero.
__
If someone is willing to post a specific number on the internet, then she/he is the kind of person who will spill shit on the internet that *wouldn't* necessarily be readily accessible in real life. I mean, think how many users here have readily revealed secrets of childhood abuse, psych disorders, and other stuff that no one knows IRL except mb a therapist or two...
data.whicdn.com/images/31765096/superthumb.gif
In other words, those people's ONLINE personalities are... excessively forward about those things. That is pretty much the whole point, especially on a site whose entire stated purpose is for the sexes to interact.
I doubt most of
these people are nearly so transparent in real life. I mean... can you guess how many partners **I've** had? ... even though I've dropped lots of hints about my previous life before I was married? (I'm not going to tell you if you're right, it's mostly a rhetorical question) Also, if you met a shy, quiet girl who has a history of letting aggressive guys have their way with her, I would bet $1000's that you would VASTLY underestimate her "body count". Lmao dude. I know women like that who've been with 50 men and could *easily* pass themselves off as virgins (and are often chased by guys with attitudes like yours, because they seem so "innocent"). Remember the "fuck yeah" / "can't say no" thing we talked about the other day. I'm sure you could gauge the Fuck Yeah girls accurately -- because they would probably just *tell* you (and might not even find the question crass or offensive, even). But, I'm POSITIVE you would underestimate the Can't Say No girls. The last thing you should
understand is that, when a woman underestimates her "number" of partners, that usually has NOTHING to do with making her look more desirable to guys... and has everything to do with the fact that, emotionally, there really ARE sex encounters that "don't count" for us. I mean, ok, here's an analogy: Let's say a girl just gives you a hand job, or mb a blow job, but you never fuck her. In most guys' reckoning, that wouldn't count toward the number... right? Right... because "it doesn't count". Think -- more than you normally would -- about why it DOES count to fuck a woman in the pussy, but DOESN'T count to fuck her in the mouth. That's not as obvious a distinction as you might think at first. For us, it's basicalyl the same as that -- except the "insignificance" isn't just a physical failure to enter a vagina, it's more holistic than that. Most girls, if they have an actual fuck that doesn't *register* in certain ways -- ways that are BOTH physical AND emotional -- then that's going
to be EXACTLY the same, to her, as a blow-job-but-no-fuck would be to you. It'd be an incomplete attempt, and therefore "wouldn't count". (And a lot of girls WOULD count guys who they didn't actually fuck, but had *some* types of sex with, if those rls were significant enough.) This is hard to understand, because guys are generally incapable of thinking of a fuck as a non-thing. (It's "another notch on the bedpost" -- and even if the girl is COMPLETELY CRAZY and tries to ruin the guy's life, 99.8 percent of guys STILL tally that fuck as a positive achievement.) I mean... mb the best analogy is prostitutes? If some dude had fucked 3 girlfriends, 1 casual partner, and 25 prostitutes, I would say that his body count is 4. Not 29. You get me?
@redeyemindtricks Well I guess as long as I genuinely believe that she is modest/innocent then it doesn't matter what the reality is as long as I never find out. However, IF I am going to find out that she isn't so innocent then that is something that I would rather find out sooner rather than later. In your experience, are there any indicators that separate the can't say no girls from the ones who are actually innocent/modest? I think I get you, but does it really have NOTHING to do with making her look more desirable to guys? Lots of girls here have said that part of the reason they lie about the number is because they don't want to be judged and that if they weren't judged they wouldn't feel the need to lie. :/
Okay, so "nothing" is a slight exaggeration... but it's sort of like clothes and makeup. We know that certain things *affect* guys in certain ways, but, our choices in those departments aren't PRIMARILY driven by guys either. Especially not by what guys *want*, in the lust sense (the best fashion is alluring to guys, but also frustrating to them -- in the "Use yr imagination" sense -- as I'm sure you're well aware). __ "In your experience, are there any indicators that separate the can't say no girls from the ones who are actually innocent/modest?" ^^ Nothing you're gna see immediately. There are differences in the way they react to aggressive overtures (obviously, since that's the basis of the whole difference)... but, even *those* are VERY subtle at first. Even the worst Can't Say No girls don't *immediately* fold. __
"Lots of girls here have said that part of the reason they lie about the number is because they don't want to be judged and that if they weren't judged they wouldn't feel the need to lie." ^^ Dude use yr fucking head. IF ANYONE **EVER** ASKS DIRECTLY FOR A BODY COUNT, IT'S **ALWAYS** IN ORDER TO PASS JUDGMENT. This is not a thing that ANYONE would EVER ask as some flighty topic in casual conversation. If anyone did that, it would be rude, crass, and would *completely* fuck up whatever playful/casual vibe. So, obviously, if the women are reacting to perceived potential judgment, they are 100.00000000 percent correct. Dude. This is just normal behavior. People do that shit in response to ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. For instance, when re-entering the US, people routinely under-declare goods and cash -- **even if the actual amounts are duty free**. Think about why they would do that, even when there would be NO legal penalty for declaring the actual amount, whereas there
WOULD be a penalty if they were caught shorting the amount. You get it? It's EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
@redeyemindtricks What are these differences in the way they react to aggressive overtures? "IF ANYONE **EVER** ASKS DIRECTLY FOR A BODY COUNT, IT'S **ALWAYS** IN ORDER TO PASS JUDGMENT" Yeah, which is why I was saying that it didn't make sense when you said that women underestimating her number had nothing to do with meeting men's standards. Part of it is what you said about certain encounters "not counting", but part of it is also a desire to avoid being judged negatively.
"What are these differences in the way they react to aggressive overtures?" ^^ If I even *could* explain that in words -- which I'm not sure I can -- it would take me many thousands of words. If I got that detailed, I'd want an actual book advance. __ Lol, I mean they might take a number that's *already* lower than what you'd think it should be (if you count every guy who physically fucked her as a +1), and reduce it even MORE. But, lots of women *don't*. Lots of people -- men and women both -- REALLY SUCK AT LYING, and they'll tell the truth even in response to super intrusive questions. (This is why people have to be *told* to stay silent when cops are talking to them.) So, in lots of cases -- mb even most cases, I don't know -- girls would just blurt out the correct number, but, according to THEIR definition of "correct". Would you agree with me about the 4 instead of 29 thing? Esp if you want the partner count to have anything to do with actual sexual success with women... lol
@redeyemindtricks You could write a take "How to tell the difference between an innoscent girl and a slut who can't say know" 🙈 In terms of sexual accomplishment, I agree about the 4 and 29 thing. In terms of how much it would turn off their potential partner, it would probably turn them off just as much or even more than if all 29 were legit.
... No*
Lol, if I was gna go deep into something like that, I'd want an actual book deal. __ "In terms of how much it would turn off their potential partner, it would probably turn them off just as much or even more than if all 29 were legit." ^^ Oh yeah, but that's a different issue. If a guy had EVER been to a prostitute even *once* -- even if it was twenty years ago -- that would kill his chances with me. Completely. Even one time. That's not because of his "experience", though (hahah smh at considering that "experience"). That's because... prostitutes are women who don't have any connection with you (even a fleeting one), and DON'T WANT YOU. They just want yr money. If some dude still wanted to fuck a woman with whom he felt NO connection or mutual attraction, and who DIDN'T WANT HIM -- not to mention being willing to part with $$$ for it (... and still being able to get hard after PAYING!) -- then, yeah, that is a dude I could never see eye to eye with. Fuck that.
@redeyemindtricks I mean if you tally up all the opinions and comments youve written here you have probably written enough to make at least on book 😅 Yeah, I also feel the same about girls who sell sexual favors. I dont like the idea of knowing people were just able to pay for her. Also just with the girl giving bjs example, even if they dont technically count as full fucks from a perspective of sexual achievement, the visualization of her having that many different dicks in her mouth could turn off a guy almost as much as if they were full fucks.
So I sort of skimmed what was said here.. but this is fucking long lol. Really great points on both sides. So I agree with what @bandit74 is saying when he describes the differences of mockery when it comes to virginity between men and women. One thing to consider... For an average woman, she can go on tinder and find a fuck within 5 minutes. It's a matter of spreading her legs. While she won't find guys of high value like that, she will easily be able to find sex.
"Also just with the girl giving bjs example, even if they dont technically count as full fucks from a perspective of sexual achievement, the visualization of her having that many different dicks in her mouth could turn off a guy almost as much as if they were full fucks" ^^ Aaannnnnnnnddd that is reason no. 8721528756213489 why it's stupid fucking bullshit to ever discuss "numbers" explicitly. Zero possible benefits... LOTS of potential butthurt. I mean... If you have a long-term rl with someone, then any relevant aspects of their character should be completely obvious to you after a short time. Basically, if you think there's even a *need* to discuss "numbers", then you're pretty much admitting that you fail at life. Or at least fail at reading people, which is at least 50 percent of life.
In order for a man to have sex with multiple women over a prolonged period of time, he needs to have a lot of great attributes, such as high social status and good looks. I think women are automatically drawn to these traits of so-called players. It isn't the fact that he is pumping and dumping women so much as it is with the fact that a lot women sleeping with this guy is a indication that he really has something to offer. It's not a direct correlation of him pumping dumping women like nothing as it a relation with the indication of high status. She is attracted to his good traits which players always have. This is why men are praised to sleep around a lot and women are shamed.
So I agree with most of what you said except with the point red pointed out. Guys who fuck a lot of women and sleep around, typically don't go after goody good virgins. It's a very rare occurrence. I think I have a higher count than most guys on this website and I can attest that I couldn't imagine settling down with some goody good Catholic virgin. I'd prefer someone with some experience that is on the same level as me because within that, there is a natural synergy. The appeal of fucking or settling down with a virgin is attractive for the paramount reason that it's sort of a privilege to take a girls virginity. A lot girls value their virginity and if you are the guy to take it, it's flattering.
The other appeal of these kinds of women is the whole dominance factor. Being the dominant figure to teach them the ropes and mold them to exactly what you want. Since they have no experience, they are much easier to mold sexually and emotionally to your best interest. If I had to guess, I would say a lot of the times men with a higher count who go for the good virgin "pure" catholic girl are doing so for reasons that stem from personal insecurity. I would also presume that these same types of men have a lot of personality traits that could be in direct relation with pedophilia. The whole hot 16 year old jailbait thing can be appealing to a lot because it's taboo, but to actual consider an emotional relationship with a girl like that raises some serious questions for a reason. I'd be assuming that it derives from a serious inferiority complex. It's the same concept. It's fantasy... which goes hand in hand with what red was saying how this is only an 'internet thing'.
Now this isn't to say that I would automatically filter out virgin women in my dating criteria. If we click emotionally, and sexually, then it would be asinine to drop her on some random irrelevant label that isn't even applicable to the relationship. That being said, I tend to look at things from a logical perspective. The fact is that the probability of a goody good "pure" catholic girl matching with me, on an emotional, and sexual level is very low.
@Chico_brah "men are praised to sleep around a lot and women are shamed"
^^ This difference doesn't really exist BETWEEN the sexes, tho. Inasmuch as this exists in "society", it's only because of the way people are treated BY THE SAME SEX for their sexual exploits.
I already addressed this earlier in the thread, but, here's a picture of it (since there's no way to link to specific posts, that I know of)
s22.postimg.org/.../...2016_11_04_a_s_12h42_59.png
There *is* a halo effect for guys who've been with hot women, but, when it comes to their desirability to other WOMEN, that's more a function of BEING SEEN WITH hot women. That sort of reputation has nothing to do with whether they're actually fucking those women -- and wouldn't be affected AT ALL if the guy was "friendzoned" by those women. I mean, when I was living in SF, dorky PUA wannabes paid me $250/hr to be a "wing woman" for a reason -- and I sure as hell wasn't
fucking them. (I wore my wedding bands, and everything.) The only exception -- where a guy's explicitly SEXUAL exploits are a positive to women -- would be freaky cases where girls pass around a fuckbuddy for some esoteric reason. (I had a fuck buddy back in the day whose tongue was so long that it could hit the g-spot. He almost wasn't even a "fuck" buddy -- more of a just ride-his-face-and-go buddy -- but, I eventually did refer him to a couple of girlfriends, especially when I left town.) But that has nothing to do with what you're talking about, and doesn't have shit to do with the guy's social status or other attributes (... at least not once he's bedded *one* woman who can start the grapevine, anyway).
@redeyemindtricks Lol at that story. Yeah I agree with you. That's why I emphasized that by saying it's the indication. Being surrounded with a lot of good looking women, sexually.. and socially is an indication of strong traits such as social status.
@Chico_brah "Since they have no experience, they are much easier to mold sexually and emotionally to your best interest" ^^ I think yr point is that guys THINK this is true of virgins. (Right?) It's not actually true. Virgins need time, effort, attention, and empathy to come out of their sexual shells. That's the case with basically ALL virgins -- including the ones who constantly fantasize about sex -- but ESPECIALLY with someone who's still going to be a virgin in her twenties. Like doing "molding" with clay that's dry, brittle, and that's been sitting in the same mold for the last twenty-odd years. The kind of "molding" you're talking about -- if you're a sufficiently sexually dynamic man -- is going to be MUCH easier with an (at least somewhat) experienced woman. She won't have all the initial jitters and hangups that a virgin would have -- she'll be more likely to be moldABLE. And you fucking believe me when I tell you this -- If you're a dynamic and empathetic enough
@redeyemindtricks No I disagree with that. I think a lot of women look at men who are constantly surrounded by good looking women in a positive light because of the image it conveys. Maybe not in that scenario with your girlfriends but from outside perspective it's appealing to women. A guy on social media constantly being surrounded by attractive women is a clear indication that this dude has something going for him.
lover, you can whitewash EVERYTHING in a woman's sexual past. Ffuuuuuuuu You can wash away not just the memories/imprints of her previous lovers (I mean, that's not even that hard to do, most of the time)... but, you can even wash away things like abuse and rape. Oh fuck yes you can. A dynamic enough lover can make a woman BRAND new... all over again. Fuck. Yes. He. Can.
@Chico_brah "No I disagree with that. I think a lot of women look at men who are constantly surrounded by good looking women in a positive light" ^^ huh? What are you "disagreeing" with? You're saying EXACTLY what I said... which is that the **company** of ATTRACTIVE women is what creates appeal. It has nothing to do with the dude's history of sexual success. The only people who PRAISE guys for a high partner count -- or who see additional value in those guys BECAUSE of a high body count -- are OTHER GUYS, which is my point. (You used the word "praise", I didn't.) Women will value guys they SEE WITH **ATTRACTIVE** women. Honestly, if word got around that the guy WASN'T fucking all those women (... but that he *could* if he wanted to), that would almost certainly raise his value to women EVEN MORE. That said, I don't see where you are actually disagreeing with me. Help a girl out here
@redeyemindtricks There was social experiment that this guy was conducting on the misc. He posted pictures of himself surrounded by women. He made 100 + fake profiles that were very believable and commented on his own stuff being sexually suggestive. He ended up getting a ridiculous amount of attention from real women and I believe he fucked some of them to.
@redeyemindtricks We are in agreeance. I read your " But that has nothing to do with what you're talking about, and doesn't have shit to do with the guy's social status or other attributes" in the wrong way.
@Chico_brah Yeah... that is believable. Remember... wing woman. Obviously married wing woman. It also helped that I could have genuinely fun conversations with some of those guys about some shit, at least -- since I'm a hopeless nerd. I don't LOOK like a hopeless nerd, but, they were out with me, and we were clearly engaging each other and having fun -- which made them look more attractive to other women, too. (I even got a couple of them to stop following those stupid PUA scripts, and actually attempt normal conversations! #goals) If dude was dropping sexual innuendoes all over his profiles, then he probably succeeded DESPITE that, not because of it. I'm sure this "experiment" didn't attempt to separate that variable from the "being seen with hot women" variable.
You're breaking down everything I'm saying so fast I'm trying to link everything together lol
@Chico_brah Lol yah. The part you thought you disagreed with was only about the "special case" dudes. Like the dude with 5 or 6 inches of... tongue. Those guys, by definition, AREN'T going to have particularly high social value -- because if they did, then women would want to keep them for themselves! 😂😂 Especially if they were high value dudes who could ALSO do some special voodoo magic in the bedroom... hahah no woman would pawn THAT off on her friends.
@Chico_brah “While she won't find guys of high value like that, she will easily be able to find sex” What do you mean by high value? Just guys who would want to commit to her? Because based on looks, I think girls tend to hookup with guys who are maybe 1-3 points above them on a 1-10 scale of attractiveness. While girls may sleep with less attractive guys in a relationship, they rarely hookup with guys who are less attractive than they are. I don’t think I ever said that most promiscuous men go for virgins. I think some promiscuous men want a low number girl, but overall I recognize that the more promiscuous men are more tolerant of girls with high numbers. That being said, I still think the promiscuous men tend to shy away from girls who are more promiscuous than they are. Like if a guy has been with 50 girls, he might be fine settling down with a girl who has been with 20, but I think he may not want to be with a girl who has had a kill count of 60.
Generally, I think men prefer the girl to have a number that is lower than his.
“She is attracted to his good traits which players always have. This is why men are praised to sleep around a lot and women are shamed.”
I think that is also part of the reason why women are more likely to tolerate promiscuous men for a relationship. It’s not that they like the fact he has stuck his dick in 20 different pussies, its because of his desirable traits (looks, status, charisma, etc..) that allowed him to stick his dick In 20 different pussies. For men there is no such incentive to overlook promiscuity because a woman does not need to be exceptionally hot or interesting to get guys to hookup with her. There was a study that found that the most attractive women actually had less casual sex on average….
www.hookingupsmart.com/.../
@bandit74 Don't be stupid. The people interpreting that study are being stupid. Susan Walsh (the creator of the HUS site) is also biased toward low sociosexuality, and even admits this readily -- so the results are (mis) interpreted accordingly. Let me explain this study to you. I'm gna ego-trip here for a sec, and use myself as an example. I definitely would have been a 5 on their 1-5 "attractiveness" scale, back in the day. (I think I'm hotter now, but that's not the point.) I mean, part of "attractiveness" was low BMI, and I was a fucking editorial model. Okay. That's the background. Now. Consider: • My girlfriends would complain about guys having casual sex with them and then LEAVING them. • This NEVER happened to me. Not one single once. I had to actively fight to KEEP things as "fuck buddies" when I didn't want a rl with the guy. Most of my "fuck buddies" ACTIVELY wanted those situationships to turn into relationships. The few who didn't say either way... almost ceratinly
@redeyemindtricks I'm kind of thinking about this now. No bullshit I've seen the majority of girls nudes on this website. On my old tony account I would srs get fucking pictures of girls writing my name on their titties and shit. That one girl that was on here.. I don't know if I told you about her. The one that went to my community college... she used her sexuality to try and get on my emotional side. Did so with manipulation.. I think that's direct evidence that it's just the image conveyed. I'm not an emotionally inviting guy for the most part and this girl wanted nothing but emotion. It makes no logical sense as to why she would go full on creep stalker mode on me. I guarantee you if I wasn't boasting and getting attention on GAG she wouldn't of even approached the way she did. I never even fucked her.. it was just sexting.. so it's not a functional asset for her to act that way towards me. I never ate her out with a long ass tongue like your old buddy did.
@redeyemindtricks "(I think I'm hotter now, but that's not the point.)" Fucking love your confidence dude llmfao.
wouldn't have said no. It was ME who would cut those off if the guys got too possessive, or too feels-y, and I didn't reciprocate. Are you starting to understand the survey now? The survey does NOT indicate that hot women have less casual sex, or are less *willing* to have casual sex. (Au contraire -- hot women can get away with murder when it comes to "mistakes", and 99.6 percent of them KNOW it.) All the survey is telling us is that, when hot women DO have casual sex... those things are more likely to turn into relationships. In which case most women won't report those encounters as "casual sex" AT ALL... they'll report them as relationships. Because, well, they WERE basically relationships. That's all the study is saying. Dude. LOL I'm disappointed in the inability of the internet to use some fucking common sense here.
@Chico_brah "I guarantee you if I wasn't boasting and getting attention on GAG she wouldn't of even approached the way she did" ^^ Right, but, that's not ALL you do here. If it was, I wouldn't take you seriously. When you're not trolling, you add more value than the average poster here. And you're attractive, duh. __ "I never even fucked her.. it was just sexting.." ^^ Uh... yeah? So what? If someone has an underwhelming or shitty reality, and that reality goes head-to-head with fantasy... who do you think is gna win that one? Why do you think so many girls read erotic romance novels and write fanfics? Duhhh Why do some older women trust fantasy dudes enough to wire $10,000's to Nigeria? Etc Not genius level realizations here bruh
@redeyemindtricks Well if she is biased in favor of low sociosexuality, then isn’t it fair to question that you may be biased in favor of high sociosexuality? Even if you take “casual out of it” one of their findings was that attractive women had less overall partners regardless of if they were casual or serious and that they were also less likely to have casual sex within the first week.
@Chico_brah Have you gotten nudes from more than 50% of the girls on the moderation team?
@redeyemindtricks There are plenty of decently attractive people who add value on this website though. If this was real life, there would be functional motive on her end. Like I said, I never fucked this girl and most of all of our interactions were on GAG. Just fantasy.. ? Nah this girl went nuts and stalked me lol. It wouldn't surprise me if she was reading this stuff.. following me on a hidden account. I said some of the creepiest most overbearing shit casually flirting with girls on here. I still do, but not as much anymore. This is something that would be an extremely negative trait to most people other than a couple of others users and me at that time. I got away with it and it worked because I was well known on here. Hence the image conveyed. I'm not a 10/10 abercrombie and fitch model loaded with cash but she acted like that.. she was sold on the ideal me. If none of that shit was present on gag I don't thinkany of that shit would of gone down.
Back then no.. most of the mods hated me. Today.. most of the mods like me so I guess that partially answers your question indirectly. I'm not going to say more than half though. That's a pretty bold claim lol.
@Chico_brah Lol, how is saying more than half of the moderation team a bold claim? Before you said "I've seen the majority of girls nudes on this website". Seeing half of the moderation team nude is much more believable than seeing half of the girls on the whole website 😅
Mods have more to lose if they get leaked or rumors start.
@Chico_brah I guess that is true. Well I know one of them is definitely kayla 😂
Fucking disgusting lmfao.
@Chico_brah Lol 🙈 If I tried to guess the other names would you tell me if I was right?
Depends who lol. Not going to disrespect someone like that if they don't want it to be known. Most of this was on my old tony account and a lot of them are gone now. That was a year ago. I don't really do push that shit on here too much. PM box not as interesting.
@Chico_brah haha Alright, nvm.
"Well if she is biased in favor of low sociosexuality, then isn’t it fair to question that you may be biased in favor of high sociosexuality?"
^^ Susan runs a for-profit blog where she sells advice e-books and click-through advertising to a targeted audience. I don't. You tell me.
Also, I think my record of posting here speaks for itself. I think pretty much *every single time* this sort of thing comes up, I either talk about sociosexual differences explicitly, or else I'm *supremely* careful to include disclaimers like "if you're not emotionally ready for sex, don't have sex... if you are, go for it".
__
As for the findings themselves... okay I looked up the pdf of the study.
"Attractive women have fewer sexual partners"
... ahha this effect is so tiny that it's negligible. Df? Here are the data
s18.postimg.org/.../...2016_11_04_a_s_14h44_27.png
WOW! A whopping 5.14 versus 6.03 partners on average! Lol smh.
Also look at the 3rd quartile numbers... those are just
75th percentiles -- so they don't tell us about real outliers -- but, notice that those trend more strongly than the averages. If that pattern continues, its' logical enough to conclude that the HIGHEST numbers -- like, the outlier "sluts" who will affect the mean values a lot -- are going to be in the lower attractiveness groups. In other words, that's where you'll find the off-the-charts, can't-say-no women. Also -- the whole thing with casual sex turning into relationships is a thing, here, too -- and that could obviously explain such a tiny statistical difference all by itself. If a hot woman's casual fucks are more likely to turn into rls, then clearly that could explain a difference of 0.89 partners per woman... lol. Oh, and, wait until you find out how they rated "attractiveness". Wait for it...
Here you go:
https://postimg.org/image/lrs6yoxv7/340275e5/
Pink part:
The "attractiveness" ratings were determined by ONE PERSON. Who was probably at least *somewhat* older (this is a longitudinal study conducted by the government) -- and whose judgment of "attractiveness" is probably going to correlate pretty strongly with conservative dress and comportment, ESPECIALLY if the interviewer is an older woman (social science researchers are overwhelmingly female).
Yep. It's ONE PERSON's subjective judgment.
Green part:
The correlation between "attractiveness" ratings for DIFFERENT interviewers was... 0.23.
Do you know what a correlation of 0.23 looks like?
Like this:
www.spandidos-publications.com/.../...0530-g03.jpg
Ahahahaha it's like fucking random guessing, dude. I bet we're looking at some middle-aged lady's idea of "attractive" -- which is like "a nice girl I could marry my son off to" -- and therefore... so much bullshit ahah.
Not to mention that
the "first week sex" metric was determined from when the two people FIRST EVER MET each other... not from when they first hooked up (this was how the study was conducted). So, the study shows that... Girls who satisfy ONE researcher's idea of "attractive" are somewhat more likely to *know* the dudes they fuck. (... which works perfectly with the hypothesis that the interviewer is just conflating "attractiveness" with generally conservative bearing, at least somewhat.) Smh I just threw up in my mouth a bit. __ I will admit ONE bias -- and that's the fact that I was a model. Models fuck A LOT. Models fuck so much that I literally laugh out loud at the notion that "attractive women wait longer". It was VERY rare to meet a model who wasn't fucking *someone*, and/or who didn't have backup fuck boys lined up. That said... ... Modeling is also a profession that expires pretty fast. With runway, you're done by 21 or 22 in most cases. With editorial, you're done by early-mid 20's, unless
you can transition into commercial (like the VS angels). In other words -- Modeling TOTALLY reinforces the idea that right now you're young, and you'd better carpe the fucking diem while you can... and that you have a whole 'nother TOTALLY DIFFERENT "phase" of life to plan for. I can see how that might rub off on girls -- like, how it might make them see fucking around as something they do during that phase, AND THEN, when they get *out* of modeling -- as long as everything else in their lives is changing, too -- how they could absolutely think it's time to transition into a more modest, "respectable" sex life. I could see that. How many other careers work like that? Not many. So, if there's a bias with the women **I** knew PERSONALLY at that age... it could have been that. But, I think I've sufficiently eviscerated that "study". *rolls eyes* I'm not even touching the fact that it's from Notre Dame, one of the most conservative religious institutions in the fucking country, either.
@redeyemindtricks I agree about the outlier sluts being in the lower levels of attraction. Where did you find the full study? Did you pay for it? I could be wrong on this, but I thought I remember you saying that models weren't anymore promiscuous than non-models :/
I remember writing (a long long time ago) that models weren't any more (or less) likely than anyone else to try to fuck their way up the proverbial ladder, or to try to get career-related favors, placements, etc. through sex. Like, that happens sometimes... but it happens in every other industry under the sun, too. If you look at models *as a whole* -- including print and catalog models (which is MOST models) -- I doubt there are marked differences in promiscuity, either. I did international editorial work, though. The kind of work where girls have to be perfectly willing to leave home **as teenagers** and move to another COUNTRY. Obviously that's going to pretty much exclusively attract personalities that are high on "risk-taking", and LOW on "attachment" (... since we were willing to move 7,000 miles from everyone and everything we knew). I mean... High risk-taking, low attachment personalities? Are gna fuck a lot. Sure. If I said otherwise, I was probably casting a much wider net.
Nah, I mean, I *can* get these studies for free by just e-mailing people who have all the logins (if they aren't anywhere online), but this one was posted on a sharing site. Here:
www.docfoc.com/handsome-wants-as-handsome-does-physical-attractiveness-and-gender-differences
Well said, very accurate assessment.
A comic take but very true and logical undertones about society's double standards, I agree totally - Well done
Thank you for the kind words! Appreciate the read :)
Love this take, lol to you do you booboo😂😂👏🏾👍🏿
Haha thanks for reading girl!! 😘
I like wallabies, I think they're cute, I wish I could pet one just once in my lifetime.
Over reacting. There are much more things to worry about in the world
I mean you still read it and bothered to comment lol. I'm well aware there are other things happening in the world, as are you but you bothered to read and drop a comment anyways. Why don't you address those other things rather than something so insignificant then?
Yeah, you're right. That was my precious 1 minute to read and write a comment. Give it back lmao :))
I didn't expect virginity from any of my girlfriends. But I got it from two. I married the second one.
Nice, and congratulations!
This is one reason I Iike the Bible. It condemns both male and female fornicators equally. (not thatfir theological purposes "fornication" means "extramarital sex".
It also condemns homosexuality. Great stuff on the Bible, isn't it?
@Blanquino It doesn't, actually. you can find lots of explanations for why with a simple google search.
I could quote homofobic stuff on the Bible but I'm too lazy and it is something obvious.
@Blanquino There is a scene in Hamlet where Hamlet tells his lover to "get thee to a nunnery." If you just read the play as it was written, you'd have no reason to think he meant anything other than "become a nun so as to protect yourself from women." However, any shakspearean scholar will tell you that back then "nunnery" was slang for "whore house." 99% of the Bible passages that you have a problem with are in the same boat.
@Blanquino homosexuality is a mental illness
@HajdukZD List the page number in the DSM-5
Its always been the case. Women want a man thats more experienced than them and older and men want a less experienced younger woman especially for marriage
I'm a 20-year-old virgin mostly due to shit luck and opportunities not feeling right, but at a later age it's actually been beneficial to me. Any woman I talk to tends to have friends who immediately assume I'm some man-whore who just wants her for sex but are caught way off guard when I tell them I'm a virgin. For both sides, once egos start receding I think one's virginity starts bringing a positive first impression on those who want a steady relationship especially in a college envirnment when everyone's fucking everybody.
Pretty cool that it's worked the opposite for you!
For me, it's someone's attitude about their sex life/lack of that I'm more concerned about then their past or number of partners.
There's a huge difference between asking someone about their number of partners (which I don't do) and then someone boasting about their sex life and acting overly sexual which I've had happen.
There's been girls who would be like I'm so sexual, I get around and go into too much details I don't need to hear or send nudes thinking that it'll turn me on when it does quite the opposite. There's just no reason to advertise your sex life or lack of.
I totally agree. Thanks for reading and commenting!
This one girl I've been talking too off POF asked me what I'm into sexually the other day and I haven't met her yet. While that is a little early to ask, I think it's ok to ask what you're into sexually than number of partners, last time you had sex, etc. It's not like she said what she's done what she's like sexually with each guy or how she got there.
I don't like hearing about the details of past sex partners or even exes for that matter, at least early on. There's figuring someone's had sex in the past and exes then getting into the details. Going into full details comes off like they either miss it or they're putting pressure on you by comparing you to them or as if they expect you to live up to that person. By the end of the day sex and dating is different with every person.
Sadly, I think that's just how society works these days. People naturally think that way regardless of their gender. And a huge factor i think also depends on culture and tradition. I grew up in a country where sex before marriage is still considered as highly inappropriate. Mostly all of my female friends (the 'good' ones) are not attracted to guys who have had sex before, quite the contrary actually- they dislike guys who aren't virgins. And other half of my female friends who are (supposedly) more... perceptive and less judgmental, usually dont care. I, myself personally do not care if the guy is not a virgin anymore or have had several partners before...(just that i'll be checking their medical records, just incase) In conclusion, i think culture and an one's upbringing play a huge role. but all in all, we can't force people to think like we do, despite the lack of justice and equality of how people tend to think and how they were taught (or have learned) these days.
I agree, thank you for your opinion! Religion, culture, upbringing, all of that definitely affects our attitudes towards sex/marriage/relationships.
... one little problem with your ending there:
Men don't choose to be virgins. Most men cannot get their hearts desires. The only level a man can do that in terms of promiscuity, is through prostitutes or being an outlier.
Ok but my point really is that virgin shaming and slut shaming are both just dumb because I don't think sexual partners should be a measure of someone's value.
I would agree with that too, but it does. Let me ask you something. If sex or lack there of shouldn't be an issue, would you judge a person who uses prostitutes? Same awesome dude, just a different sexual path (mainly because the "lack of sex" thing is a bit frustrating)
No actually I don't lol
It is an unfortunate expectation from guys that I know that the girls they date are virgins regardless of their own slutty ways... one friend of mine had guys chasing her because of the fact she was a virgin... yet her boyfriend is a big ol' slut who sleeps with random groupies.
Guys = Sluts who get to slut around, yet most of them end up getting diseases
Girls= Virgins who AREN'T allowed to slut around but if they do then how dare she *sarcasm
You're absolutely right, as women are more of the time than men. I remember losing my virginity @13, a really pretty girl a year older than me had, in essence, taken it. I remember feeling on top of the world as I walked home that night, but I have had some ripples move out into my life, women have been sexual aggressors (for lack of a better term) a lot in my life, it has definitely given me a taste for women who are sexually sadistic, while I've always craved pain (dominatrices, etc.) and have had issues with my own addiction to that. I found out a few years ago that at the same time as my sexual encounter with her, (she was 14) this older guy who I admired was having sex with her, there's nothing else to call it nowadays but rape. It has made me look at the whole situation in a different way, I believe that men and women today are conditioned to have expectations for each other based on 2500 years of Patriarchal society, I for one would recommend being put in a submissive posture by a woman. It's a lot of fun and a good experience.
As a virgin myself, I agree fully!
This sexist double standard of women being virgins and men not is not compatible. Not only that but it's utter dull and bullsh.
As someone already mentioned, the female sexuality seems to be one directional (hypergamy plays a role in it + females choose their mates) whereas the male sexuality tends to be more multi-directional (they are attracted to multiple women at once and are the one's, who pursue them).
As a result being a male virgin is often not a choice but more influenced by luck or wealth.
Remaining a male virgin is maybe 100 times easier than remaining a female virgin.
But anyway, let's get to the point: The one thing I agree with the most is, that sexual life should be private and nobody elses business. I personally know some, who have a problem with my virginity. MY VIRGINITY! All I do about it is laughing AT THEM! Because THEY have a problem with MY VIRGINITY!!! HAHAHA ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Then they try to convince me, that it's my problem but all I say is: "Why are you so concerned about my virginity?" BWHAHAHAHA!!!
Your sexual life is not a business of strangers, but it is an business of your date.
@Berethor Yeah, with that exception of course. Let's see if I find a good woman or have avoided a bitch, who wouldn't want to see me again because of my sex life facts.
@Unit1 only an huge bitch or a girl who was influenced by one would turn down an guy only for being a virgin, it's actually quite rare for girls to turn down virgin guys in real life, even many sluts want to get their hands on a guy did not been with any other girl.
@Berethor Yeah, in my opinion, number of sex/relationship partners doesn't mean much. I was once faced with someone, who had a problem with MY virginity and has told me "How are you going to prove a girl, that you are a virgin? If she asks you to prove it, how are you going to do it?". I thought to myself, that this is the stupidest question I have heard in that month but in order to be generous and answer that not-answer-worthy question, I'd say "That girl doesn't deserve a relationship with me then.".
LOL EXACTLY. HOW IS THIS YOUR PROBLEM? Right, I guess it's dependent on what's more or less difficult for each person to achieve. But it's like, if you recognize that it's difficult for men to get laid, why shit on someone for something that is SUPPOSED to be difficult?
You got it jesshkah!
Yeah I think some people focus on a person's number of partners/lack of too much. I remember shortly before I lost my virginity in college, I drunkenly made out with this one girl and I was very sloppy, but the girl was like you suck at kissing, you're 20 and I'm 18 and I've had more experience than you. And I'm like you know how much effort you had to put in to get that? Exactly. I don't slut shame or virgin shame honestly but if some girl was to give me shit for not being as experienced as her, I'd turn that around on them. It's their problem, not mine. Like I said, I don't ascribe to the whole stud/slut double standard but the reason it exists is due to the amount of effort each gender has to put in, but it's nothing new. The funny thing is, some people who are considered promiscuous might give shit to guys who are virgins and the thing is usually being a virgin, for lots of guys, isn't by choice while sleeping around is.
@bloodmountain1990 Exactly! Well yes, it's the best tactic to turn the shame into reverse back at them >:) show's how much of an incompetent person someone is. Thanks for sharing!
Lol too funny
Haha thanks for reading.