Sexual Relationships 
Sexual Health 
Why do guys have sex with some women, but want to marry others?
In popular culture, your average woman can be divided into one of two categories: the Madonna or the whore. Think about the women in your life, unknowingly you've probably already sorted them without you realizing it, but where did this dynamic come from? The Madonna-Whore complex as it's often called, can first be attributed to the father of modern psychoanalysis, Sigmund Freud (yes the same man who thinks that all women wish they had penises... what can you say, they can't all be winners) who stated that a woman belongs to one of two camps: the "saintly and pure" Madonna or the immoral "bad-girl", the whore.
I think you can already see the problem here: people, women included aren't as simple as black and white, we don't all fit neatly into one of two little boxes. You can't really blame Sigmund can you? I mean times were different back then, we knew a lot less than we do now...
Then why are we still having this conversation now in 2016?
“Where such men love they have no desire, and where they desire they cannot love,”
That's what good old Siggy had to say about the subject, meaning a man in a good, loving relationship cannot feel true sexual arousal towards his companion, and a man cannot form a good, loving relationship with someone he sexually debases. You have women you admire and women you find sexually attractive and never the two shall meet! But surely in this new enlightened age we have done away with such frivolous labels, you cry! Surely we know that it's quite possible to love and be sexually attracted to someone in this day and age! Except, the idea that men still sleep around with the “whore” while searching for their “Madonna”, their marriage-option, still pervades modern culture.
But why the dichotomy? Why do you sleep with the “whore”, but you don't want to marry her?
I believe it has a lot to do with religion as a whole. Think about the Madonna, the mother of Christ in Christian religions: so virtuous and pure that she conceived a child without ever having sex! The Madonna is the antithesis to modern female sexuality, and for the more conservative lad, the epitome of the sort of woman he sees himself marrying. This directly correlates with the belief in stricter monotheistic religions that sex is inherently wicked, and that sex outside the confines of marriage is even more so. Of course you have the men who believe in no sex before marriage, but overwhelmingly it appears that it's supposed to be women who abstain, while men give into their “baser” desires with the “whores.”
Which leads me to another likely culprit perpetuating the Madonna-Whore complex: slut-shaming.
I can hear the angry cries already, but put down your pitchforks for just a second and hear me out, because slut-shaming is a very real thing.
With the Madonna-Whore complex you have a valued psychoanalyst saying that yes women can be sexual beings, but because of this, we cannot respect them; just sleep with them until you find your wife and then settle down with a “good” girl. This idea that “good” women aren't supposed to be sexual creatures persists to this day, though I can't imagine why. You have studies that show that women like sex as much as men, masturbate as much as men, and yet any woman who shamelessly pursues sex is a slut, or a whore.
Let me let you in on a little secret, sex is not bad. Regardless of what your religion and what your parents said, there is nothing inherently wrong with sex. Between two consenting adults (or more, I don't judge) it can be a truly beautiful thing. Not having sex doesn't make you “good” any more than having sex makes you “bad”; not that there's anything wrong in saving yourself if that's what you truly want to do, but there IS something wrong when you begin to think less of others for not.
I would say this comes back to Christianity but slut-shaming is something that a lot of people, not just Christians are guilty of: I do believe this all still stems from some religious guilt in regards to sex itself. This idea that men are sexual and women are not needs to just disappear: humans like sex, if we didn't our species would have died out long ago. You will have sex with your wife, and it won't make her any more “dirty” than any other woman who had sex before they were married.
Sex isn't bad, you got that?
So my final thought on the Madonna-Whore complex comes from good old Sigmund Freud yet again, (what can I say, even a broken clock is right twice a day), and stems both from his belief in the Oedipus complex and the actual psychological definition of the Madonna-Whore dynamic. In psychoanalysis the Madonna-Whore complex often arises when a man is unable to see his wife as a sexual being (arising from what I said previously, about men wanting to marry the “Madonna”) and usually manifests itself when their wife has a child: because their wife is now a mother, she is no longer viewed as a sexual option.
But wait, you say, didn't you mention Oedipus?
In case you don't know, Oedipus was a man in Greek mythology who killed his father and married his mother. Freud took this a bit further and developed the Oedipus complex, which was his belief that all boys want to have sex with their mothers at a certain stage in their development. Now Freud was known for spouting some crazy stuff, but this one is rooted in a little bit of reality; men want to marry their mothers just as women want to marry their fathers.
Their mother is often the first experience young boys have with women, and as such they often placed on a pedestal (see my other Take) and idolized as the peak of feminine perfection. Their mothers, their ideal woman are not a sexual being (how can they be, when they are the Madonna personified?) and so they are turned off by the idea of being intimate with another literal Madonna, their wife.
Now I'm taking the Madonna-Whore complex beyond it's mere psychological definition to extend to the idea that women are either sexual or not- using the Oedipus complex, a man wants to marry his mother, and as his mother is not a sexual being, he does not want to marry a sexual being, a “whore”.
So, what can we do about this?
Well for starters, we can stop the idea that sex is a bad thing; it's this idea that sex is “evil” that causes some people to paint women that enjoy sex as wicked (I say women because men are not usually shamed for having promiscuous sex). We can stop the idea that we have sex with some type of person and marry another, when both are valid sexual and romantic options. And lastly, we can realize that humanity is much too wonderful and complex to break down into one of two categories; people are not black and white, we're various shades of gray, and it does us a disservice to shove us into a box, especially when neither box is mutually exclusive.
We're all Madonnas, we're all whores, and we're every little thing in between.
What Girls & Guys Said
11 31Freud did a lot of cocaine. I actually always found the innocent girls sexy rather than the whore. Bad Sandy vs Good sandy? Id pick good Sandy every time
Yeah Freud was crazy, hah. I take everything he says with a grain of salt.
freud prefered cocaine to salt
I don't think it's so black and white. I mean there's being sexually active then there's acting like a sex object.
It's one thing if a girl is sexually active and may have over 10+ partners but is clean and loyal when it comes to relationships. Then there's ones who put it out there how sexual they are and volunteer too much info about their sex life. They even send nudes early on or think that acting sexual as possible will get someone to like them
it's a red flag to me because they think guys will respect them more or will only like them if they act sexual which is sad.
And to be honest I don't think it's cool when a guy acts overly sexual and puts his sex life out there. Bottom line is, we do want sex but we want a personality to go along with it and not just have the girl be a sex toy if that makes any sense. You should impress someone with who you are, not your sex life.
Wtf... WOMEN shame men for wanting sex. It's the most contradictory thing on this planet. MEN are supposedly "thirsty, creepy, Think with their dicks blah blah" not women. The minority of guys who get a lot of woman have to deal with this issue. Not the average joe because woman are turned off by a mans over sexuality so we have to play it safe. Such a load of shit.
It's because they don't understand men. Women & men are NOT the same.
@GoldenWing exactly. Many Women don't get men. Rendering this take mute. many women don't get The dating game at all. You see it everyday on this site.
Worth a good laugh, funny take! 😆
thought-provoking piece
she is just old trying to be young
This take doesn't fit me at all. I was raised with the saying, "Don't **** someone whom you wouldn't be willing to marry." I stayed away from the loose girls in high school and college, because I'm not into them, and I've chosen to stay a virgin, because I want a virgin girl for myself. Dad did the "pork the sluts", marry the virgin routine, and I've seen the problems that it's caused his marriage with Mom over the years.
I want a good girl, because I'm not interested in other men's leftovers. If blokes want the whores, then they can have 'em.
I never understood the idiocy of that thought process. Madonna means mother, and in my book, there's only ONE way to become one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glhdcJ7K3XMAlso, if he's a REAL man, he will twist that poom poom out in unspeakable ways. :D
Any real woman is a lady in the streets and a freak in the sheets.
Speaking of between sheets
Also, Freud related everything to sex. Dude needed a shrink.
Oh yeah. Great myTake
"We're all Madonnas, we're all whores, and we're every little thing in between."
nah, you're just women.
you can pick what you want and be what you want, but using all these tags make me think you can use them as a mask to do what you want when you want. that means, a dormant 3th wave feminism virus is breeding into this post. and i may be wrong, and frankly i hope so
women, be women for godsake! being feminine has nothing to do with being sluts or madonnas
Because who wants to marry a hoe?
Women do the same lmao
This is so black and white and so wrong. This is in your mind and your finding ways to justify your own beliefs. In the United States in Western civilization and culture very few people fit the Madonna versus whore scenario most of us are somewhere in the middle
I agree. I believe the person who wrote this take is very little experience in the dating world. She read a few articles probably in Cosmopolitan and has come up with a take to justify her opinions
Um... you two do realize that she was saying exactly that - most of us fall in the grey area in the middle... so it's stupid to view women as one or the other.
@Sara413 my bad and I will tell you why my bad this take was way too long and I got disgusted with the whole thing pardon my ignorance.
@Sara413 I apologize my bad. There was so much crap in this thesis that it became overbearing. My bad.
@Sara413 read the responses it is as if no one learned anything and that is because, well I'll shut up
Well said. We are following eons of societal repression of female sexuality/domination of patriarchy and a woman's right to control her body. I heard a really interview with Gloria Steinem on NPR recently about the most important trends for women across the world.
Bad girls have curly hair?
yes we do
@lost_alice mm are you the type of girl that eats shy guys for breakfast?
For the same reason women fuck “chads” throughout their youth and then look for “a good man” when they are older.
It's biology. Men want to have sex, with lots of women etc but if you commit to a woman you need to be 100% certain any kid she has is yours so if she promiscuous in the times b4 dna tests how would you ever know who the father is. Women became more chaste because they didn't want to end up pregnant and single. Having a child out of wedlock was shameful because shame discouraged other women from making that mistake. Soceity has historically had certain ergonomic mechanisms that existed naturally out of necessity so with modern birth control and contraception along with dna tests and Soceity providing medical care and welfare for women pregnant out of wedlock the shame mechanism for female promiscuousity and unwed mothers is no longer required.
I like your take, tbh I do not consider women madonnas or whores. I personally would want to be kinky with this really sweet female friend I know. But it's hard when they act innocent around you or indeed any guy who happens to have good quality character traits.
It seems like some women seem to do the same madonna whore thing in reverse and only open up sexually to guys who are less good - who care about them less, who they care about less and who are less sweet. They come to some weird logic about which men would be better at sex based on them not behaving in a polite manner.
I wrote a question on it about preselection. It was meant to be a take, but is a question now by virtue of clicking it lol. Would appreciate your views on it and the 11 points?
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2112236-do-the-follow-things-see-each-one-indicate-preselection-result-in
I think everyone now and days throws the marrying type with the I just wanna have sex in two separate places.
Marriage is a big deal after all. I don't shame other girls (or anyone for that matter) for their sexual numbers. How I look at it is, everyone has different auras they give off. I think that's how I see it. It's kind of complicated to explain
I dont see why having certain dating and marriage standards is wrong. I live in a fairly small town. Id rather have a wife who had a few sexual partners than someone who had slept with every guy in my town including my friends. That would just be weird to me.
I understand the point you are trying to make. The double standard on female promiscuity is one very issues I actually have sympathy for. Yes it is true that men seek out more "innocent" woman for long term marriage. We also believe this women will be less likely to cheat. Not always true either way. However being a man I myself have had guilt and shame for my own promiscuity.
One issue about your take that made me very angry was the focus on Christianity being the primary culprit. You said absolutely nothing about islam, judiasm or any other faiths (I don't like the word "religion" by the way... it connotes that faith in a higher power is manmade). Jesus actually ate, drank and associated with the "sinners" including prostitutes. He saved a woman from be stoned to death for committing adultery. He never condoned these sexual deviance but he also didn't preach persecution and punishment for it either. He was born of a virgin BECAUSE he was not of this world. His miraculous conception didn't occur to avoid the evil role of sex.
Next time you take a pot shot at Christianity do your homework. I realize that atheism is "cool" nowadays but that doesn't give people an excuse to be ignorant.
I tried to reference all monotheistic religions, but Christianity is the one that references a virgin birth, so for purposes of writing I referenced it more. I believe that any religion that paints sex as something wrong can be blamed here, but it wasn't my attempt to take a "pot shot", simply state the facts as I knew them.
Sex can be a bad influence on what we do and how we decide the things we do. In all aspects of life, if you take something to an extreme then you are going to abuse it and therefore it is wrong and it is bad for you. Moderation is the key and spice of life. That's my view of this.
The concept that a woman who is sexually promiscuous and a woman who abstains from sexual activity is bad versus good has valid points in any society and to simply say one way or the other that such thoughts is wrong is an assumption, because while I agree with some of what you're saying, I don't agree with your overall ideology.