Why does homosexuality and asexuality exist?

[michellebrown48]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not homophobic. I’m literally gay myself. But from a evolutionary standpoint, it makes zero sense? Gays and lesbians and asexuals can’t reproduce! And that’s the whole point of evolution and life. Biology n shit. Everything else makes sense. People are attracted to good looking people because they are healthy and therefore could probably reproduce. Some guys r attracted to big tits cuz they can breastfeed their offspring. Big hips are attractive for most guys because they can bear children. I get all that. But. But, why does the prostate exist? Why is the human body and mind sometimes meant to be lgbt but it doesn’t improve reproduction in any way?

[Imafreespirit]

Homosexual behaviour occurs in animals too, as some people are saying in here, but let's not take them as reference, because that behaviour would vary according to the species and their current situation. Humans are a bit different. There has been numerous studies trying to see if there's a gene involve in all of this. There's a genetic marker, known as Xq28, which contains hundreds of genes that seem to be related to homosexuality, note that this is just for males though. (there's a lot of info on this, so you should read some of the articles if you wanna learn more about it)
As you said, homosexuality doesn't make sense from an evolutionary perspective since it would have negative effects on reproductive output, so selection should have eliminated the alleles that are linked to homosexuality, but the thing is they can have benefits. There are two ideas that explain this. Researchers came to the conclusion that there's a heterozygote advantage to this gene, which means that heterozygous heterosexuals that are carriers of the ‘gay gene’ are actually benefited by it because they have traits that are attractive to a lot of females (e. g. good parenting, empathy) A low dose of these genes are positive for heterozygous males (aka heterosexuals) but a large dose is what causes homosexuality. The other thing that tries to explain the success of this gene is the sexually antagonistic mechanism, which states that if the reproductive success (aka fitness) of one sex is decreased, it can cause an increase on the opposite sex, studies suggest that some females with homosexual relatives have increased fecundity. So yeah, thats what the research says about the genetic aspect of it, but there's heaps more to explore.

[RuthAnn1781]

It doesn't make sense from an evolutionary and biological standpoint, because yeah, with those two things you can't reproduce, not naturally anyway unless you go against what you really want and either be with a gender that you're not attracted to or have sex with someone. There's not really a way to explain it, no way that I know of. Some people are just gay or asexual, that's just what it is I guess. I can't really answer your question so I'm sorry about that

[bente2]

To keep the population in control. There are A LOT of humans on this planet, the more humans the more gays.

Asexuality isn’t an evolutionairy process in my opinion, but a human process. I haven’t seen studies that concluded animals were asexual yet, and i don’t think there will be any because the instinct to procreate is too strong.

[Annie_Mosity]

Maybe we've reached a point in civilisations evolution where the desire to make babies isn't the driving force for everyone anymore... Or maybe the human mind is far more complex than some base instinct to fuck and impregnate and we all just use that as an excuse for quite devolved actions...

[Annie_Mosity]

Thanks for the MHO :)

[Intraluminal]

You have to remember that evolution does not have a drive for "perfection" or any drive really, other than to reproduce, and that drive has nothing to do with happiness. I can't think of a particular example, as I can with sickle cell (below) but I can easily imagine situations in which *wanting* to be gay (in a society that absolutely forbade it) might make you have more children than being straight. I mean, if your society horribly penalizes non-virgins, but you're a virgin because the LAST thing you want to do is have sex with a guy, then *bingo* you're at the top of the heap - unfortunately you have to have sex with a guy now and bear his children, BUT your gay gene helped you have those children.

The second thing you have to understand is that evolution works at the species level, not the individual level. An example of this is sickle cell anemia. People who suffer from sickle cell anemia die earlier, and have fewer children, but evolution "selected" for sickle cell gene because at the population level, having one (1) sickle cell gene protects children from malaria. Of course having two (2) sickle cell genes makes you sick, so it's a trade-off that benefits the species not the individual.

[Intraluminal]

The other thing is that evolution can't always come up with a perfect solution - it just goes with whatever works, even if that means it breaks something else that was less important. Research has shown that MOTHERS of gay men tend to have more children that mothers of straight guys. One POSSIBLE explanation is that the "male gay gene" makes you more attracted to men. This is fine if you're a woman (you'll have more kids) unfortunately it will make some of your sons gay, but remember - lot's of gay men have kids, so probably that small effect on men is more than compensated by the fact that the mothers have more kids.

[Intraluminal]

Evolution, because there's no intelligence behind it, frequently "solves"problems in stupid ways like that.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

One has to also remember that there in an implicit assumption in this question that homosexuals don't reproduce. That's not necessarily true. Throughout human history, homosexuals often reproduce before or even after discovering their sexual orientation. I mean, homosexuality is partially genetic and partially environmental, so obviously both these genes and the proclivity to reproduce the environment is being carried forward between generations.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

I stated this in a comment, but to reiterate: you're assuming homosexuals don't reproduce. They reproduce quite often, in fact. Look at the possibilities for our modern culture:

1. A boy decides he's gay shortly after puberty - let's say 14 - and leads life as a homosexual from that point on.

2. A man doesn't discover he's gay until later in life, after he's married and had 3 kids.

3. A man discovers he's gay at some point in life but wants to have a child anyway. So, he gets someone pregnant anyway. Perhaps because he isn't out of the closet yet and wants to keep leading a heterosexual life.

Throughout history, scenarios #2 and #3 have happened over and over again. It's only been until recently that scenario #1 was even considered an option in more conservative places of the world.

Now consider that for reasons I won't go into here, demographically speaking gays are often more successful than heterosexuals. They hare higher educated, make more money and in some cases are more talented. Combine that with the fact that they're reproducing and you have a breeding segment of the population that actually has an evolutionary *advantage* over the rest of the species.

[Casey10101]

hahaha never thought it like that before.
ahh past that humans basicly stopped their own evolution, or so I believe, as we have made life more simple for us. we are at the top of the food chain compared to animals, so we dont need to physically evolve. so its turned to mental evolution, where we grow smarter and smarter. (you can disagree with me, thats cool too.)

[cOOM6789]

I disagree with you being ok with being disagreed with

[Shinyuu]

Actually a lot of studies have be made. And every social species got asexual, bisexual and homosexual sex oritented. it seems to regul better the sociaty they live in. If there was not point to it they would have dissapear, natural evolution story.

[PrincessBunBuns]

I think it's because humans are just so complex. Homosexuality exists in the animal kingdom, too! Take a look at penguins ♡. As for asexuality, it "kinda does" since some animals reproduce asexually. But then again, humans can't.

I think it's because humans are just wild fucks. I mean, we are the most advanced creatures alive for a reason.

[Berethor]

It's a birth defects, and birth defect exist.

[TheCunningLinguist]

There have been numerous studies that show when mammals are in dense populated areas of overpopulation there is an increased amount of homosexual activity. Those amongst the population with weaker genes tend toward homosexuality In an effort to strengthen the gene pool of the whole while decreasing the population to meet the resource restrictions. Now please don't take this as a slight towards the homosexual or or LGBT community. It is simply scientific fact that actually points towards homosexuality being something you're born with And not a choice.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Source?

[Agent]

Waiting for source.

[TheCunningLinguist]

@Agent www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2636191/ This was a study done by the World Health Organization in 1962 I know there are other studies but I'm not going to spend all day Doing what you could do if you just bothered to go online and look. I'm not trying to blast anybody or any community, I'm just stating the science.

[Agent]

@TheCunningLinguist I know. I didn't say I disagreed with you, I was just genuinely curious and didn't feel like googling it myself. I'll look into that link later. Thanks.

[TheCunningLinguist]

@Agent Oh okay, I'm sorry I got defensive. This is a hot-button issue for some people and they get really upset. But understand I have an uncle who is gay Who I love very much who died back in the 1980s. I have nothing against the community Or individuals who are Of a homosexual orientation.

[TheCunningLinguist]

@HungLikeAHorsefly

[TheCunningLinguist]

"Nature" Biology Always strives for equilibrium.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

@TheCunningLinguist Did you read the article you posted (the first one)? Three paragraphs into the abstract, it says further experiments showed no such behavior of human populations under stress. In fact, Calhoun's original 1962 paper spawned a lot of research - and most of it doesn't support his conclusions. Do you have something else? For future reference, don't be lazy about providing sources to back up things you say. It's not our job to hunt down evidence - it's yours.

[TheCunningLinguist]

@HungLikeAHorsefly My intention was not to be lazy I know that I read other articles I just don't personally have the amount of time To dedicate to that nor is it that important to me to do so. I was just merely stating the facts as I have read in the past If they upset you dismiss them my life Is unaffected.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

They don't upset me - I just don't think what you said is accurate.

[TheCunningLinguist]

This was simply the first one I came across on my phone at this time.

[TheCunningLinguist]

@HungLikeAHorseflyhttp://pdxscholar. library. pdx. edu/cgi/viewcontent. cgi? article=2428&context=open_access_etds and https://youtu.be/dQlw4PpDs4o I asked a close friend to look up some things. No I didn't have the time to research her read all of this you may find it interesting because her and I re-read things of the same conclusion.

[TheCunningLinguist]

So a video was added With a Counterpoint because I do believe in being impartial. I hope this helps.

[TheCunningLinguist]

www.google.com/.../medicalx

[Quinn79]

Considering the world's population, consequent climate change, plus diminishing resources, is not reproducing really a bad thing?

[vittle1999]

It's not always about reproduction. With the brain getting larger, it's able to do a lot more including thinking outside the programmed settings.

[memyselfandiamhere]

Desire is a thing of evolution.

Described wunderfully in "the selfish gene'"

[Anpu23]

One clue is that in overpopulation situations in mice, we see an increase in homosexuality. It maybe a built in check against overpopulation.

[FakeName123]

People willingly cutting themselves out fo the gene-pool

[FakeName123]

In all honesty though. I think while there are genetica predispositions, homosexuality is an environmental and mental occurance and not something you are "born with". So I guess you really could say that especially gay men cut themselves out of the gene-pool. Asexuality on the other hand is a mental issue. Hands down. There are a bazillion mental health issues that have either hypersexuality or asexuality as a symptom. Especially for victims of sexual abuse this is a very common occurance. Furthermore asexuality is NOT a sexuality. It's the absence of a sexual drive. Like the absence of hunger.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

You'll be hard pressed to find any quality sources for this opinion.

[FakeName123]

@HungLikeAHorsefly Not really. There are studies about homosexuality being environmental. But keep making up your mind without having done your research. Google: "swedish twin-study homosexuality"

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Since you were apparently unable to do so, I went and found this (which is what I think you were half-assedly referring to):

www.sciencemag.org/news/2008/06/gay-not-all-genes

You'll note this does not support your assertion that "homosexuality is an environmental and mental occurrance and not something you are 'born with'".

Now, since you've done your research, would you like to actually support your statement?

[FakeName123]

@HungLikeAHorsefly "Since you were apparently unable to do so, I went and found this (which is what I think you were half-assedly referring to)" Believe it or not. My world doesn't revolve around online-arguments. I simple did not have the time, but you are free to call it "half-assed" and imply I am "unable" to find it. Problem is, you only make yourself look stupid.

[FakeName123]

Maybe if you didn't open up an dishonest article, but the study itself (which was exactly one link beneath) - you would have figured that they are cherry-picking.

Here is an excerpt: "Biometric modeling revealed that, in men, genetic effects explained.34-.39 of the variance, the shared environment.00, and the individual-specific environment.61-.66 of the variance. Corresponding estimates among women were.18-.19 for genetic factors, .16-.17 for shared environmental, and 64-.66 for unique environmental factors."

For men it was double the environmental factors and for women 4 times the environmental factors. Which exactly proves my point that there is genetical predisposition, but homosexuality being an environmental and mental occurance.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18536986

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

You don't have time to post a link, yet you have time to opine at length about the subject. Curious. I guess my objection here is that you're making it sound like people choose to be gay. Otherwise, how would someone willingly cut themselves out of the gene pool? The article you cited doesn't support this opinion. What it does say is that homosexuality is a combination of genetics, the social environment and the biological environment in which the person developed in. There's nothing about that that even sorta implies it's a choice.

[FakeName123]

@HungLikeAHorsefly And now re-read everything I wrote and tell me where I said it is a choice.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Your first sentence: "People willingly cutting themselves out fo the gene-pool" Now, if it weren't a choice, how could they willingly cut themselves out of the gene pool?

[FakeName123]

And right after I wrote "in all honesty though" - implying it was a joke.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Ah, my bad. I didn't catch that.

[DanoMR98]

Natural selection, you know? If you're gay you mustn't have been meant to reproduce.

[ASEXY]

It doesn't matter why they exist. It's not going to help anyone. We need to stop looking for theoretical answers about this.

[Icybaconman]

Why, because sometimes your gender is the only ones who get you, or what you are going through. Plus. Girls are hot, why can't other women enjoy that too?

[sidneyk25]

It's just one of those things. Yes there are the things you listed above, but you also have to account for the fact that we are humans, and different things can affect how we feel about reproducing. We are deeply flawed creatures, so it stands to reason that an imperfect creature would have some that go against nature's natural order to reproduce.

[pleasure69]

Just be who you are

[jakeofalltrades]

I think it might be like a natural population control or something like that. if some people are so they don't reproduce, less overall population

[CT_CD]

The prostate gland is a male reproductive organ whose main function is to secrete prostate fluid, one of the components of semen. The muscles of the prostate gland also help propel this seminal fluid into the urethra during ejaculation

[ItsYaBoySkinnyPen-is]

Why do I smell my fingers after touching my asshole? Some things are better left unanswered.

[vargpost2]

they are basically the eunuch slave class.

[Anonymous]

Lack of religion.