Why is being a virgin looked down upon in western society?

[Datboi65]

A study shows that by age 40, 95% of Americans have had premarital sex. For those who abstained from it until age 20 or older, it is still at a high 81%. Plenty of people use "virgin" in the context of an insult, and there's a lot of pressure put on people to lose their virginity before a certain age, rather than stay celibate until marriage.

My question is: why is promiscuity encouraged, and virginity discouraged in western civilization?

[MrOracle]

For males, it's because:

• it's assumed that you were simply unsuccessful - i. e., unable to attract a partner - which is a value judgement against you.
• If you are past 25, and you say you are waiting for marriage, it means you weren't able to attract a wife, which is also a value judgement against you (and one where they use your stated goals against you).
• Much of society not only doesn't understand religious sacrifices, it mocks them.

It starts to make more sense once you understand this dirty little "secret" that isn't really a secret - it's just not talked about:

Marxists - the folks who wanted to spread Communism (which is another term for Marxism) worldwide, were in a Cold War with western democracies in the 1950s - a war they already realized they were losing. Despite their very best efforts, and some notable successes (the early space program), they were falling behind, and they had to put up fences and machine gun towers to keep their own people from being able to leave. The more time passed, the further behind they would become (which is exactly what actually happened). So, they knew they couldn't win militarily, or economically. But they'd read their Sun Tzu, and they understood asymmetric warfare, so they heavily and broadly employed a technique that was relatively inexpensive and difficult to stop - and fairly easy to slip under the radar: SUBVERSION.

Subversion is when you have a goal you want to achieve, but you can't achieve it if you follow the rules, so you pretend you are working to achieve a different goal that IS allowed under the rules, and you hide your true goals from most people (a few higher-ups will be in on the real goal, of course).

Marxists started for looking for things they could infiltrate and take over and use to push for their own goals - always claiming to be actually be fighting for something else that was more palatable to the public, of course. Education was their first target, followed by the media - both news rooms as well as Hollywood. In the 60s, they took over a number of civil rights groups, and they took over the Feminist movement. In the 2000s, they took over the gay rights movement, and in the 2010s, the LGBT movement.

The goal of all of this was to destroy western society from within. Marxists already well understood that western democracies couldn't be defeated externally - they were too strong and too resilient. They had to play the long game, and introduce rot from the inside, and destroy each and every individual pillar that held up western culture.

Each "branch" had specific goals to achieve. The Feminist's goal was to destroy the nuclear family in the west, using every means at their disposal, and using the Feminist movement as cover. Organizations like BLM were to destroy race relations and divide the populace along racial lines. The LGBT activist movement was to divide people by sexual identity and across social lines. The schools were to teach that morals and values were whatever felt right in the moment, and "the right thing" was whatever made you feel good, regardless of what the actual outcome was. The media was there to reinforce the messages and to provide cover for anyone who broke the law or offended the public along the way.

Marxists taught women to abandon morals and values, and to abandon families in favor of careers. It taught them to deny men all benefits of marriage, but to continue to demand all benefits that women had always enjoyed. And here we are today: women now value careers above marriage and children, and aren't interested in marriage until their 30s - which is at the tail end of their reproductive window. Obviously too, chastity isn't valued when marriage is not. And so it goes.

[Datboi65]

OK, pause. How the fuck did this go from respecting someone's religious choice to save themselves for marriage, to BLM and Marxists? If you hate leftists, just say that my guy. I'm not a leftist or a conservative, I believe they're both full of shit. I just don't think it makes sense to bring that up in a discussion. Also, why bring up race into it when it doesn't relate? Listen bro, you can get off my thread and go to 4chan with that nonsense, I'm not trying to read none of it.

[MrOracle]

I'm simply trying to educate people as to what happened and how/why, because as much as it's made a huge impact on our society, MOST people have NO IDEA where it came from. If you want to go bury your head in the sand and ignore it, I can't stop you, but some other people might appreciate the information.

[Datboi65]

Sexual liberation and feminism. Marxism alone could mean anything, and the definition of Marxism does not include feminism in practice. You would be surprised, I know some who are very traditional and would definitely not get along with feminists. As far as BLM is concerned, you're just reaching. The only thing that ruined race relations was white people not listening to what black people have been saying. You don't even want to teach the history of Jim Crow in school in details, because it's somehow "divisive". You don't want to improve education in underfunded public schools and HBCU's that get their funding from the government. You are totally fine with breaking black neighborhoods apart by building highways through them, and sending a lot of Black people to jail over Marijuana charges, but sure BLM is the problem. Listen bro, I'm not some woke liberal you think you can fool around, I'm probably more traditional than you in a lot of issue, but I take the problems of my community very seriously. If you want to answer the question, then stick to the topic at hand: promiscuity.

[MrOracle]

Do some research. A number of Feminist leaders in the late 50s and early 60s - names that aren't well known any longer but who were leaders at the time, have written about how Marxists/Red Stockings (the early name adopted by Marxist "Feminists") took over the movement in the early 60s, forcing existing leaders to either conform (which some did) or be pushed out. The first of these books were written in the early 70s - it's not like this is some new revelation. It's just been buried. Countless Feminist leaders from the 80s and later have admitted - proudly - that they were Marxists over the last 40 years, and they certainly push Marxist goals, including ones that clearly work against women. BLM is the same. BLM was founded by 3 women, all of whom identified themselves as Marxists (one of whom even proudly proclaimed that they were "trained Marxists" in a televised video). Other than bailing rioters out of jail, what has BLM done for black people (or anyone, for that matter?) They've raised millions of dollars in donations, but they've helped zero black-owned businesses whose shops were looted or burned down in the BLM riots, they've provided no help to black families who needed help, they haven't even provided legal assistance to people who could even plausibly claim to be the victims of actual racism. Aside from protecting the rioters, all they've done is collect money. You don't find that strange for a charity? As for building freeways through black neighborhoods, who did that again? That happened in Oakland in the 1950s - the double-decker Cyprus Freeway that ran down the middle of Oakland, and which famously collapsed in the '89 earthquake. Who was in charge at the time? Hint: not Republicans.

[MrOracle]

There's no doubt that black people were treated in racist ways in institutionalized ways, well into the 1960s - but where did this happen? Primarily in the South, which was run by Southern Democrats - the very same people who created the KKK. Of course, our President Biden attended the funeral of one of those Southern Democrats, Robert Byrd, who'd been a KKK member in the 1940s - as were a LOT of Southern Democrats during the first half of the 20th Century. It wasn't Democrats who were pushing to end slavery - they were the ones voting against it. I'm not going to argue that racism has been entirely eradicated - that will almost certainly never happen - but it's awfully rare today. All of these false allegations and accusations (I've been called racist for the brand of car that I drive) not only sow racial division (which is exactly why the Left is doing it), but also makes it that much harder for true victims of racism to be taken seriously.

[Datboi65]

Allow me to use the definition of Marxism: "Marxism is a method of socioeconomic analysis that uses a materialist interpretation of historical development, better known as historical materialism, to understand class relations and social conflict as well as a dialectical perspective to view social transformation." As you can see here, more focus on class relations, and "social conflict" us left open to interpretation. That's because not all believe in the same social values, but the focus is more socioeconomic. That would be like someone saying that liberalism means you have to support metoo and blm, when that's not really in their definition. From a sociological point of view, you are wrong.

[Datboi65]

As far as BLM and it's founders are concerned, I never said I agree with their economic strategy, but I am willing to work with whoever is pulling the rope for black liberation, and then we can work to solve the differences in opinion later. As far as looting is concerned, 93% of all protests after George Floyd's murder were peaceful. It's a fact, not an opinion, and you can google it. You wanna talk about 7% of cases to paint your narrative. I can talk about countless MAGA protests that turned violent, so you are not perfect. You gave just one example of a highway that was built in a liberal-ran city, Oakland. The plan to build highways that cut through urban neighborhoods was originally made by conservatives, again it's a fact you can Google. That meant black people had to be removed to create space for the project, and a black neighborhood was cut in half or in quarters, destroying any chance of prosperity for black businesses.

[Datboi65]

Southern Democrats were conservative, remember that. The polarity switch happened in the early 1900s. That means, all the Republicans carrying Confederate flags used to be Democrats in the past, when the Democrats were the more conservative party. Again, that's a fact, not an opinion, you can Google it. Not once have I made an excuse for liberals, but you sure do like to point fingers at black people for things we don't even have any control over, like education, urban planning and infrastructure, segregation, and you fail to see how that affects an entire community in the long run. How do you want to tell me after all evidence I gave you that "racism exists, but is negligible", and then tuen around and complain about looting (that is rare by the way) when people fight to fix those problems? Should we in your mind just say f it and give up the fight to improve all that I mentioned? How does any of it makes sense? It doesn't, and you know that, but you don't care. That's why they called you racist, not for the car you drive.

[Phoenix-gb]

Part of it is the hardwired need for reproduction present in any living species, but from a modern perspective, it's seen as a formative act linked with healthy emotional and sexual development.

As someone stuck in the virgin camp at what is now seeming to be an insurmountably advanced age, I suffer from depression and suicidal ideation because of how unwanted this status makes me feel, even though I know it's not something people can tell from sight, there are conversations in certain social groups that I can't participate in because I don't have the normal developmental experience that everyone else in that peer group has gone through and essentially feel like an outsider to the human race because I'm apparently not good enough to attract a partner.

[Datboi65]

Would you say that your experience is voluntary, or involuntary? Like have you tried to get it before and failed, or did you simply decide not to get involved until marriage?

[Phoenix-gb]

I've tried, still am but it's feeling more hopeless each day. I can talk to and make friends with women I meet, just can't find anyone who want's to go beyond friend. Certainly not making a voluntary choice, I just can't seem to give it away.

[Datboi65]

That's why. I think intentions make the difference. I don't put emphasis on it so much, and I was raised with traditional values. In your case, it is most likely what I mentioned about the societal stigmatization of virginity that you are dealing with. My advice? Find a purpose and stick to it, women will follow you naturally. Make yourself busy. Self-improvement is key. Also, if you can I advise that you get married first, because dealing with too many exes before marriage can just be a mess.

[Phoenix-gb]

Issue is, I'd rather not enter into marriage, to find I'm physically and sexually incompatible with the person I've just tied my life to, that's a recipe for a very unhappy marriage. As for purpose, the only one I'd had was to be a partner and hopefully father, but that's a vanishing dream. I've come to accept I'm unwanted and making plans to no longer be an ongoing concern for much longer, unless something miraculous happens in the meantime (and as I'm non religious, I don't put much stock in miracles)

[Mrsposh]

That's a Great question My guy👌🏾.
.
. Insane how people feel like having sex is the ultimate Life goal

[ChrisMaster69]

A lot is backlash from those who push being a virgin and then slag off anyone who is not one.

For example a girl has sex at 16 and the virginity crowd will all race forward to label her.

No one really cares if a person is a virgin is or not, it’s invariably their choice.

when it does become an issue is when they start slagging off non virgins or pushing the MIMB shit that usually happens.

Neither side your really comment, as it does not matter if a person is a virgin or not, who really gives a fuck.. well not the virgin (pun was too tempting).

[Datboi65]

See what you did there. No, but seriously though. Maybe you're just unaware, but virginity is stigmatized. When I tell most people that I am a virgin, they think it's just because I can't get laid or whatever. Truth be told, my parents have instilled those family values in me to wait until marriage. It's the peer-pressure aspect of people telling you that you need to lose it by a certain point which I dislike. It takes maturity and discipline to stay focused and on track, but I don't like when people make it out to be a bad thing, or that I'm somehow "missing out" because of my decision. And ypu can't deny that it's something that happens, because it's my experience and unless you were on the same journey, you are probably oblivious to it.

[ChrisMaster69]

It’s your choice, no one really cares either way. Its when the ‘I’m saving it until marriage’ thing turns into the Not dating either, then it’s Incel city and full on MIMB mode

[Datboi65]

I beg your pardon? How is someone not dating an incel? You don't know people's circumstances to make that judgment. You don't know if they are going on a journey of self-improvement, working on their mental health or have other things to worry about. Honestly, that was just an ignorant response.

[ChrisMaster69]

As soon as things such as virginity and not having sex become the ‘well actually I don’t want to date’ Then it’s not so much waiting for marriage, if they are a virgin or not becomes irrelevant really. Looking to get married sort of means a person is either actively dating, is in a relationship or is looking for one. It’s not a bad thing to be a virgin or not be a virgin. Derogatory about either is wrong. Claiming that one or the other holds the moral high ground. If a guy or girl has historically had 3 sexual partners, it does not matter, equally she could be a virgin, again does not matter. Both have equal standing

[Datboi65]

What if I don't believe in "dating"? Everything you think you know, throw it out of the window. My world view is completely different from yours. Dating is a waste of time, and "taking it slow" doesn't get you anywhere. If I believe a woman has the qualities I'm looking for at the right time in my life, I will get married within a short period of time. My idea of marriage is like this: get to know the person, ask about their values, vet and find out if they have any negative history/red-flags, introduce them to my family and meet their family, engagement, marriage. Straight to the point. No living together, none of that stuff. I don't need to be boyfriend and girlfriend with a girl I want to marry, because if I think she is worthy, I will make her my fiance, provided we are both family-oriented and traditional. I expect her to also be a virgin like myself, or else we don't share the same values, and it won't work. I wouldn't marry someone with even a body count of 1.

[ChrisMaster69]

That’s what dating is 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦 Now we get to the crux of it. You are the one with the issues, not other people. Most people really don’t care if a person has had sex before. Its the person they like and not if they did something silly with a guy or girl one time. Nothing like being hugely judgmental of people No one cares if a person is a virgin or not, it’s not looked down on, only the toxic fuckers who try and preach that it’s some higher moral ground

[Datboi65]

Hold up, I'm the judgmental one? YOU told ME that not dating makes someone an incel. That's fucking judgmental if you ask me. My definition of dating is different from yours. "Dating" is a relationship between a guy and a girl, usually before an engagement. The stage before that is "talking". "Dating" or relationships can be casual or long-term, and I don't do either. I go straight from the talking stage to the engagement stage. As far as I'm concerned, I have no problems getting into an arranged marriage if our beliefs and values are similar. You like to fool around, "take it slow" and do whatever you like to do, which I honestly can care less about. My problem is with immature fools having a problem with people take that commitment, thinking that they are somehow missing out.

[Sixgunsound]

There is nothing wrong with being a virgin. Louder for the people in the back: There. Is. Nothing. Wrong. With. Being. A Virgin. There is more to life than sex. Sex is part if life, sure, but there are other things. A high body count is essentially saying you’re a piece of meat for the taking, male or female, and that you do not have much else to offer. It’s not cool, it’s not sexy, it is quite lonely and empty and I feel terrible for people who mistake sex for love.

[Datboi65]

Thank god, finally someone with common sense.

[JuanVelasco2]

There are different reasons for each sex, but I won't go into details, in short, the promiscuity of women is promoted by feminist and progressive groups. Male promiscuity was promoted by the man's need to reproduce with as many females as possible in ancient times. The ridicule exerted by women on virgin men comes from intrasexual competition.

[Datboi65]

First one is correct. Second one is wrong. Polygamy does not equal promiscuity. There are cultures that practice polygamy, or having sister-wives. That's fine. The promiscuity I'm talking about is hook-up culture with no strings attached. That's not fine. And by the way it's not just women, I notice it's mostly men who ridicule other virgin men if I'm keeping it honest with you. This whole "chasing pussy" is a guy thing, let's not pretend like it isn't. I think guys always wanted to do it, but because our forefathers realized that having values and commitments is better long-term than bedroom fun in the short-term, but when the women (gatekeepers) and the one's who can give consent decided that they want to be more sexually liberated, then the guys that have always desired it decided to pursue it freely without ramifications. Does that make sense? You can't blame one without the other. And yes, reproduction is a natural urge that we have, but we can fight it with discipline and maturity, something that unfortunately a lot of modern men lack.

[genericname85]

cause it's pretty much equal to "you can't attract a mate".

[Datboi65]

Incels are different. Involuntary celibates are the ones who try to attract a female, but fail at it. If you don't try because it goes against your values, that doesn't even matter.

[genericname85]

well it is assumed that you're trying.

[Datboi65]

And that assumption is the problem.

[genericname85]

i don't think it is, cause that's normal.

[Datboi65]

You thinking it's normal is a problem. Society has made it so that promiscuity is the norm, and purity is an anomaly, so much so that people get ridiculed for not engaging in hookup culture. It's very immature if you ask me.

[genericname85]

No i don't see that as a problem. I see things as normal that most people do. I don't define as normal what i think should be right. I look at reality and see it for what it is.

[genericname85]

Social norms change over time. That's not new. You can see that as a problem but that's just your opinion that nobody is forced to share.

[Datboi65]

Right, so if you live in a society with a high crime rate, that should become the new norm, right? Just because something is common doesn't make it "normal". Plenty of abnormal things are common. How many healthy families have you seen? Do you know what the out-of-wedlock birth rate is? The divorce rate? These figures are abnormal compared to other parts of the world. Why not just take accountability and do better?

[genericname85]

I don't consider having sex with another consenting person a crime. I don't know what sort of messed up point you're trying to make.

[Datboi65]

Just because I made a comparison, doesn't mean I equated it to being a crime. I thought you were smarter than that. Obesity is "the norm" in the US, but it is not "normal". Does that make sense now? Just because everyone is doing something, doesn't mean you should do it too, or think it's acceptable. If people can let go of this herd mentality and think for themselves, the world will be a better place.

[genericname85]

obesity rates are 42%, so it's not the norm. it's not a majority. and guess what: there were times in history, where being morbidly obese was looked up to. a sign of wealth. i'm sorry that you're so ignorant that it makes you believe i'm stupid. that happens. it's ok.

[genericname85]

also: how likely do you think it is that someone considers your argument, when you call them stupid? you're obviously full of your opinion, which is fine. don't confuse your opinion with some sort of objective standard, everyone who doesn't see it like this must be stupid. because that's actually quite stupid XD

[Datboi65]

Let me set something straight. I never called you stupid, I said I thought you were smarter. You're quite immature for a 36 year old. Now, the BMI is a a scale to measure the body mass index. Anything above 24 means overweight, and anything above 30 means morbidly obese. At least 70% of Americans are overweight/obese, so don't act like you have no idea what I'm talking about. Also, that 42% obesity figure is going up, not down. Soon enough it will be the majority. Should it be the new "norm"? This argument isn't about obesity, but I used it as an example, since you wanted to be a smartass and equate my other example about crime with sex being a crime, which isn't the context of the discussion. The point is, just because everyone is doing something negative, doesn't mean you should follow it. If people start jumping fromm cliffs, would you do it too?

[moviedude714]

Yeah many people say the movie the 40 Year Old Virgin is an insult to people who have not had sex by the time they reached 25

[In_Trance]

The issue is as you said, wait until marriage

[Waldoe]

you are full of it... Western Society ENCOURAGES Virginity... it is a Common subject of discussion. No one wants their child to be Promiscuous.. Why do you HATE people that you've never met? You sound sick and twisted

[Datboi65]

This is what happens when your argument is based on emotions, rather than facts. You say that it encourages purity, but the numbers say otherwise. How am I sick and twisted for stating the obvious?

[oralmajiq]

Oh damn, I would never guess that.,. But it's more than likely because of people's hedonism and non-belief...

[Anonymous]

It is? I always assumed more partners naturally meant less attractive. My hormones automatically point towards virgins even before I knew of the term

[Datboi65]

It is true for women, less true for men. Since I am not a woman, I'm asking from a guy's point of view. It seems that if you don't lose your virginity by a certain age, other dudes will ridicule you, even though you have decided to wait till marriage.

[Anonymous]

Doubtful of this "81% didn''t have sex until 20"

Clearly they didn't check out what's happening at my high school back in the day where 70% of the graduating class weren't virgin any longer.

Then they clearly didn't check out my uni. Nearly no one was still a virgin by the end of freshman year.

[Datboi65]

No, you got it wrong. Of the people that ABSTAINED FROM SEX UNTIL AGE 20, 81% of them ended up having premarital sex.

[Anonymous]

I've never noticed this to be the case.