Why do so many men believe that buying someone dinner or drinks entitles them to sex?

[Subarugirl]

[TheorionMage]

It ALL hearkens back to the fundamental purpose of non-platonic dating... its a societal social paradigm to have two Sentience's of opposite gender, consenting to negotiate the possible fusion of genetic DNA. Biologically speaking the MOST FUNDAMENTAL interaction for which BOTH lifeforms are evolutionarily-driven by 'LUST' to engage in.

The concept of 'foreplay' progressively literally lays bare the hypocritical layers of social embellishment to awaken and activate the underlying subconscious hunger to fulfill BOTH life-forms 'divine mandate' to physically achieve a 'vector' by which HIS spermatozoa 'ferry' HIS genetic material past HER physiological defensive processes to EARN the right to enter into fusion with HER viable Ova toward gestation.

Crudely put... that folk mantra: "If you're here after, ... what I'm here after THEN hereafter WE'RE here after the SAME thing." PLATONIC dating implies 'equality' requiring one provides no more than "the pleasure of One's attention and companionship of discussion sharing perspective". Dinner or drinks provides the inducement and 'payment' compensation for such company. Seldom does such expenditure occur SOLELY for exposure to 'the Courted's platonic intellect alone. The 'Suitor' is petitioning for the opportunity to awaken the 'Courted's physical animal desire. Those who accept such an invitation knowingly or naively, are socially assenting to be 'woo-ed'.

Typically, despite overt perspective, being subjectively socially 'desirable' imparts certain favorite privileged status and as such, paradoxically females are societally urged to employ cosmetics and couture as 'glamoury'.

In Nature plants do NOT 'blossom' with pleasing alluring scents and winsome bright buds gratuitously; they do so to attract Pollinators

... the same underlying principles extend to human beings despite espoused paradoxical denial protestations. From birth females are schooled to BE deemed 'pretty'... to what life's purpose? WHAT is the pragmatic 'end game'?

[OlderAndWiser]

I suppose that some guys have that attitude for the same reason that some girls think having tits and a pussy entitles them to free food. Both sides are approaching dating as a barter system and they overvalue their own contribution/undervalue their partner's contribution.

Fortunately, not all guys have that attitude. I have dated many women and never EXPECTED a woman to give me sex because I took her out for one or two dates. If I was dating a woman, then I was sexally attracted to her (why would I keep dating her if I wasn't attracted?) and I wanted to have sex eventually but only when she also wanted it. I've had women want sex after three or four dates and I've had women who wanted sex after three or four months and sometimes we broke up before we got to that point and there wasn't any sex.

Fortunately, I've had women who did not expect to be wined and dined non-stop, who were relatively low maintenance, and who were appreciative of my time and attention. And some of them were quite affectionate long before things became sexual. And most of them were fun. I probably wuldn't have enjoyed the experiences so much if I was keep a balance sheet on how much I spent and how much sex they owed me.

Be careful whenever you have a question about "why do so many guys" do this or that. Almost every issue you can think of in dating and relationships affects both genders, and the problem is not gender-related but assocaited with other attitudes.

[Emiliamazing]

I wonder if this has evolved over time. When my husband and I have date night, it’s usually a romantic evening. Even when we were dating, in the early phases, if we were going to go out for a nice dinner we were certainly going to make love later on. I don’t think he ever expected it, having sex was just a natural progression of our relationship. I’ve never been a one night stand or type a gal and he wasn’t that guy. Sex/promiscuity has certainly become a little more trivialized/normalized in the last 15 to 20 years in my opinion, so perhaps that pushes this behavior to the forefront

[MrOracle]

The difference is that it sounds like both of you were dating with the intention of being in a serious, long-term relationship. That's more the exception than the rule, even when you were 20, and has only gotten worse - quite bit worse over the last 5-7 years, in fact, which I attribute mostly to Instagram and too many people (mostly women, but some men too) feeling entitled to a lifestyle they certainly can't afford themselves, but see someone on IG appearing to have (even though it's often a complete lie), and being encouraged by their girlfriends to demand that lifestyle from men. Pre-IG, the girls that behaved this way tended to mostly be the party girls - the girls who went out to bars and clubs drinking and looking for hookups several nights a week. It was rare to run into a non-party-girl who had that attitude - but post-IG, that attitude has become a LOT more common. Way too many people are just clout-chasing, and aren't dating people in a serious way, but rather to improve their own situation (money, status, access, follower-count, etc.), and the entitlement for many is just off the scale, even among what would have been "normal" girls 10 years ago.

[Emiliamazing]

@MrOracle I think you have some valid points here in terms of individuals wanting a certain lifestyle. Yes, you are correct my husband and I are both looking for a long-term loving relationship, which we have. For us it was never about a particular lifestyle, just about working together to achieve some mutual goals. There’s an awful lot of self indulgence in the world. It’s in the shows we watch, the movies we pay to see, and behaviors the wealthy which are covered by the media. People want to live in these tiny bubbles. In the end, it’s up to an individual how they handle a given situation. Females and males can avoid this type of behavior if they want.

[Emiliamazing]

* were looking.

[Aerissa_Jade]

I will say it isn't all guys, just some but if he is 35 or older, that seems less likely in my personal experience.

This though is why I will do two things on a first date, I will drive myself... and pay for myself. I'll even do that on a second date, but if we make it to a third then things become more relaxed but still no sex until things are right, usually months down the road when I'm sure he wants more than just sex.

You'll find some guys, by their posts here, say it is normal and others think that is crazy talk.

[MrOracle]

Let's clarify.

If a man buys you a drink, you owe him a few minutes of conversation if you accept it. That's it. And you don't have to accept it if you aren't willing to have that conversation.

But that's not what some men are talking about. They're talking about those women (which is not most women, but is definitely a certain type) who will flirt with a guy and ask for multiple drinks, appetizers, dinners, drinks for her friends, etc. THAT is transactional, and so she shouldn't be surprised when the guy expect his share of the transaction. Again, no one makes her take take take, and flirt and lead the guy on - SHE is building that expectation. If you don't want that expectation on you, then don't expect the man to be your ATM machine. And I'm fully aware that most women don't do that - but some of you do, and some of you who don't have friends who do, so you know full well that this is happening.

[Bluemax]

I really wish more people were challenging this opinion rather than just voting it unhelpful. The debate would be interesting.

[MrOracle]

@Bluemax Downvoting is easy. So are name-calling and other personal attacks (which aren't happening here - yet - but have elsewhere). Coming up with convincing arguments and refuting points is a whole lot harder. I'm always up for a good debate, though.

[Bluemax]

Indeed.

[Yucy_Gluttony]

@Bluemax I agree with you completely. Downvoting, blocking is the easy way out. It's not because we have disagreements that we can't discuss it or even learn from eachother's point of view!

[Subarugirl]

You don’t owe anyone anything for giving you something you didn’t ask for

[MrOracle]

@subarugirl Again, if you don't want that obligation (which, as I've said, a guy buying you a drink means you are obligated to talk to him for a couple of minutes - nothing more), then you simply say "no thank you" and refuse the drink. If you accept the drink, then you accept the obligation. This isn't rocket science.

[Subarugirl]

Then don’t call something a gift if there are conditions or expectations attached because then it’s not a gift it’s payment.

[MrOracle]

It's not a gift, it's a social contract. Anyone who doesn't want to play along needs only to refuse the drink. It's not that complicated. You have to be REALLY entitled to expect men you don't know to buy you things for no reason. We all know there's a reason, and we all know what the reason is.

[Subarugirl]

And you have to be extremely entitled to think that a cheep drink entitles you to someone else’s time or body. Maybe try initiating a conversation first before implying that you can buy their attention with a cheep drink.

[MrOracle]

That's not the social contract. You may not like it, but it's the way the world works, and it's what most people expect. Again, it's VERY easy to opt out, so I can only imagine that the reason you are arguing against it is because you want to be able to keep the drink without the conversation - and THAT is what entitlement is.

[Felinegirl]

It's rude to use someone as a piggy bank, but no level of rudeness obligates anyone to have sex with you. Guys have free will too. If you don't want to spend money on a girl, then don't. If you spend money on her hoping for sex, that's your gamble. I don't ever ask people for free stuff/drinks. If I'm offered, I may accept. That's all there is to it.

[MrOracle]

I disagree. in my opinion, there IS a level of taking where you WILL be expected to give. But most women who take like that understand the social contract and are perfectly happy to fulfill their end of the deal. Most women who aren't willing are also smart enough not to take in the first place. The only ones with a problem are the (relatively few) women who think it's okay to take all they want and give nothing back. That's entitlement. Nothing in this world is free.

[Subarugirl]

Then don’t give things away for free and then get upset when you don’t get what you feel you’re entitled to.

[MrOracle]

The guys in question are NOT giving things away for free. That's the whole misconception here. People rarely give things away for free to strangers. These guys are following a widely understood social contract with the exception of getting a return on their investment. They aren't giving gifts, they are using drinks and meals and so forth as currency to buy a girl's attention, and the more they pay, the more they expect in return. If someone taught you otherwise, then you were misled. I'm here to correct those teachings. As I said, you can easily opt out by refusing the offerings, and be obligated to nothing. But if you accept the offering, you also accept the obligation.

[Subarugirl]

Then they should make sure that they should communicate those conditions… otherwise a gift is a gift

[Subarugirl]

Because I am not for sale and if a man thinks that he can buy me with a cheep drink then he is the one who is misguided.

[MrOracle]

So, refuse the drink. No drama.

[Subarugirl]

Of just don’t buy thinks for strangers and then expect them to owe you. Problem solved

[Femphile_xoxo]

Asking for drinks doesn't equal sex. Could totally be companionship that she wants. Besides, consent can be revoked at any time 😒

[Buntyp]

Because that's how cheap they are! You didn't know?

[HighValue]

So the woman isn't cheap by not paying then?

[Pyrofox]

I think its just a cost of women forgetting when they are leading men on. And men missing the signs completely. Its a case of the blame should be on both sexes for the absolute turd level of communication we all experience.

[katiesmuff]

You mean after all this time , that it doesn't mean that? Now I think of all the bj's I didn't have to do!! LOL

[its_amelia_c]

Because they are clearly the wrong guy!


If you meet that type of guy, run, run as fast as you can away from them!


Not all guys think or feel this way. Those are the ones you want to meet and spend your time with and make a genuine connection with.

[ChrisMaster69]

It’s likely a result of going out for a meal with other guys, say football team mate, one of them buys the meal and then the other expects some back door actions.

they then go out with a girl for a meal and expect similar, they become really confused as Brad who they went out with for drinks and a meal was all up for sex, it is after all what is expected after a meal..

[TrueConfection]

I don't understand this or the idea that, "women are looking to get a free meal."

I have never been so hungry that I needed to trick a guy or have sex with a guy in order to get a meal. Ridiculous.

[MrOracle]

nypost.com/.../

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4E8qEDi_xg

[ohshee]

I think those are the guys that make the girl pay her half that want that I never really understood that myself I mean you just have to let things happen you can't push or make something happen just relax and let it happen if it's going to happen but I can see the guy making her pay her half and then wanting do you have sex are fucking world's going nuts I don't understand people anymore

Oh wait a minute that has happened before except for this girl I was with it's going to throw the biggest bit if I did not let her pay for everything I tried to even get the tip and she said no and it almost got embarrassing I had to Philly just give in and say okay fine fine but me being me as we got out to my car and I had to be a smart-ass and say well I guess this means you're going to want sex from me since you bought everything and she started laughing I started laughing and then I said no I'm serious if you think you're going to get it in my pants just because you bought me dinner you have another thing coming and it was quite funny for me that would just ruin the whole night if I was to do that with some girl is totally uncalled for

[lightbulb27]

because that's all the game and patience and consideration they've got.
Keep in mind, they likely also believe in the tooth fairy.
As well, for some it may work... so they keep doing it. E. g. alcohol and guilt trip.

It's quite pathetic, unfortunate women have to deal with that. Realize guys have to deal with junky using females as well, there's two sides. It comes down to training, trust, some class.

[summiter]

They are shallow to think of that. You can do better.

[dustybiker]

Big early flashing warning lights of decency. When the man doesn’t have expectations and the woman asks if she can split the bill.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

BECAUSE YOU ACCEPTED IT!!

That's the dating equivalent of people who get wined and dined for months over business negotiations and at the end they be like "oh you know what, we actually have no interest, sorry" if you didn't want to have sex with the guy why would you accept the dinner? Lol

I get that sometimes it doesn't go as planned and you lose attraction and that's fine but I just don't understand how you can go out to dinner with someone and not expect there to be a really high chance of fucking somewhere.

[Subarugirl]

Because asking someone out and paying for a meal doesn’t mean you have the right to someone else’s body. If you had expectations beyond a date and are expecting reimbursement for paying for a meal than you should state that before the date.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

If we're going out to dinner, it's probably because we've been flirting. It's not that it gives you a right to anyone's body, that's ridiculous. But going out to dinner with someone you have zero intention of having sex with after is disingenuous. If you do that, good for you. But understand what that makes you 😂

[Berethor]

Why so many women believe that they are entitled to get stuff for free?

[sunflower00]

They don’t, most of the time a guy just shows up out of nowhere and tries to force you to accept the free drink he bought you

[Berethor]

Then maybe you should not accept it, you can pay for you own drink, don't you?

[sunflower00]

Yes, most of the time women try to reject it but they ‘insist’ and say they’re just trying to be nice. So we accept to get them to stop bothering us and then pour it down the toilet incase it was spiked

[Paul09]

@sunflower00 Yeah I'd never accept a drink from a man, if I was a woman. lol

[Emilyis]

Because they all think they deserve it. Never sex for anything. It just makes you a slut.

[Bluemax]

Those men that do are not good men.

On an ancillary note, I believe when someone asks someone on a dinner date, the invitee *does* very much owe the asker something. AN HONEST RESPONSE. Especially if that response is "no."

If you know that you could never see yourself getting romantic/physical with the person inviting you on a date, I believe you have a moral obligation to say "no" clearly and unambiguously. It is the compassionate thing to do (I wrote about that here Not giving you a chance may very well have been the compassionate thing to do )

And I have known plenty of women who flat out told me they said "yes" to a date invitation when they knew from the start they didn't want to get romantic with the guy. No one is owed sex for dinner. That's just wrong. However, all of us *do* owe honest, unambiguous answers to a date invitation. Especially when the answer is a "no".

P. S. Your analogy about inviting people over to dinner at your place is not a good one compared to inviting someone out to a restaurant. In roughly 99% of the times when someone asks me to join them at a restaurant, it is understood we will split the bill. In 0% of the times when someone asks me to dinner at their place do they expect me to pay for anything.

[Subarugirl]

It’s generally accepted that that person asking plans/hosts the date… if I ask someone out on a date I pay because I asked.. if I wasn’t going to do that I’d make sure that was communicated before hand.

[DonkeyDan]

Probably the same reason so many women think that sex gives then a right into a men's wallets.

[MrTuxedo]

American movies I suppose.

[ShadezMcgee]

I believe it is what they have learned how to date or reach that as the end state based on media and movies. Men aren't given a foundation or class on how to date, it is something they figure out in their own through a metric ton of trial and error. Movies and TV showed us shit seen out of cheesy romcoms or dramas that in turn influenced how we approach this as a whole. It is almost a step by step check the box to get them to that point and when it goes awry or doesn't end there, then they get resentful and frustrated.

Now, we can also acknowledge there are women that will merely take men up on a date for a meal and anything is better than staying at home watching paint dry even if they have no interest which is where I believe some men have big gripes. Women exploit a date offer and they are out money they could have saved and time they wouldn't have to worry about not getting back. That is where men get mad that they feel led on. We would more than likely be less bent out of shape and frustrated if women were just upfront and didn't beat around the bush. "You in or out?" Deal.

Personally myself and the guys I know would go into dates with no expectations and just try to have fun. Keep it cheap and enjoyable. Dinner dates if that is what it is should be split for this reason. No one owes the other anything.

[Gaibriel]

I don't know why men and women can't be upfront.

It would save everyone the time and the hassle.

"Hey I'm interested in sex on the first date. Are you ok with that or no?"

If she says no, then aren't you saving yourself time?

Find someone who wants to fuck early on.

Women shouldn't expect a man to pay when its the first date.

Like y'all are strangers...

Who would pay for a stranger?

Both of y'all need to pay 50 50... it's not that hard.

People are over complicating things.

[Sixgunsound]

In other contexts, investing resources into an account or business venture entitled them to some kind of return on investment. Transference of that thought process to human relationships doesn’t make it right, but it is what it is. Women bragging about or otherwise demonstrating that they are using men for free drinks or dinners doesn’t help.

[Subarugirl]

Not without a contract…

[Sixgunsound]

As far as I’m concerned it’s a loss if you invest in a date and it doesn’t work out. I don’t see taking a risk in that context entitling anyone to anything. People need to be more selective /discerning about who they invest in, I. e chat a bit beforehand instead of rushing to meet someone in person on a whim, or expecting someone picked up as a stranger unexpectedly to immediately owe you anything. Nobody owes anybody anything for any reason in the absence of a contract they voluntarily entered into.