If a 17-year-old girl gets catcalled in public when she's wearing revealing clothes, do you think it's her fault?

Anonymous

0 3

Superb Opinion

MrOracle Influencer
+1 y
If a guy dresses like this:
He's probably going to get called a nerd or a geek or perhaps worse.

If he looks like this:
People are going to call him a stoner and try to buy drugs from him. Police would also likely be interested in his activities, especially the Narcotics guys.

If a guy dresses like this:
People are probably, um, going to "assume his sexual orientation" and some may do so in a way that some might find offensive.

The point here is that each of these guys made choices on how they portrayed themselves, and people are likely to treat them in certain ways because of those choices. Whose responsibility is that?

The world is what it is, and you can't change it, and you can't control it. The ONLY thing you can control is YOURSELF. If the nerd guy buys a belt and a T-shirt, and loses the suspenders and bow-tie, most of the "nerd" stuff would stop. If Stoner guy washed his hair, stopped wearing clothes with pot leaves, tie dye, and drug bears, he probably wouldn't be immediately identified as a stoner. If the gay guys wore "business casual" clothes, no one would care about their orientation.

The reality is that each of them chose what to wear because they WANTED to be identified in a certain way - and they were and are. And, they're completely allowed to do that - BUT - there are consequences to their choices. We all know, in each case, what those consequences are likely to be, and they know it too. Yet, they still chose to portray themselves the way they did, and so THEY need to take responsibility for the consequences of their choices.

The same is true for a woman who wears revealing clothing. No one is saying you aren't allowed to wear it - we're saying if you CHOOSE to wear it, you can expect people to react in a certain way. If you are honest with yourself, you'll admit that you chose to wear those clothes BECAUSE you wanted people to react to how you were dressed, and they will. But like everything in life, there is good and there is bad, and you have to take them both, and expect them both. We ALL do.

Take accountability for YOUR actions, and stop blaming the rest of the world for the consequences of YOUR choices.
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- ChrisMaster69
  +1 y
  Which would be fine. What about when it’s a girl in a normal short skirt of summer dress?
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  @ChrisMaster69 I used some extreme examples because I was making a point, but obviously there is some nuance here. You have to use your own eyes and brain to answer the more nuanced questions. A girl with an average body is going to look less sexual in a given sundress than a girl with a curvy body wearing the exact same dress. Or, the same girl could wear one sundress and look like she came from a church potluck, and a different sundress and look like she came from a tropical sex resort. It also makes a different what environment you're going to be in. A dress that might fit in just fine with an upscale fashionable crowd at a charity event is going to come across VERY differently at a car junkyard (usually located in industrial areas) or walking down the street in the ghetto. Context matters, and needs to be considered when selecting your "look." I used to work in ghetto areas all the time. Do you think I wore jewelry, expensive shoes, designer clothes, or brought out fancy electronics on those jobs? Hell no! I understood the environment I was in, and I made adjustments accordingly.
- ChrisMaster69
  +1 y
  Why should context matter? If a girl is wearing a short dress or skirt it does not matter. It’s the person looking that decides it It’s wrong no matter how you put it. The final bit is opening your mouth to actually catcall That is never okay She could be naked and you don’t do it. It’s the act of doing it that’s wrong, not what a person is wearing. Or are you saying “yeah well her jeans looked tight, I can catcall her and feel justified” ? Your last bit reminded me of the usual thing that comes out when a girl has been raped because she was wearing a short skirt on a night out. Take accountability for YOUR actions, and stop blaming the rest of the world for the consequences of YOUR choices.
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- Subarugirl
  +1 y
  What a person wears does not give you the right to harass them
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  Wait! Why is it ok for me to wear a skirt at “ an upscale fashionable crowd at a charity event” but is not okay if say… “ walking down the street in the ghetto”? You sound like you are saying that if I get raped in a “ghetto” and I was wearing a skirt, it’s my own fault!
- Subarugirl
  +1 y
  @CrazyGirl2 that’s exactly what he’s saying girl
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  @CrazyGirl2 I'm saying you can't be naïve and pretend like the world is a perfect place. You have to take some accountability for yourself. Imagine me walking down the street alone at night in the 'hood wearing a bunch of gold and diamond jewelry, dressed in an expensive suit with $800 shoes, wearing a $10,000 watch, and counting a roll of money as I walked down the street. Do you imagine I would be able to do this completely unmolested, or do you think it's likely that some of the locals might jump me, beat my ass (or kill me outright) and steal all of my stuff? We both know the answer to that. And if it happened, people would say "what the hell were you doing down there? At night? Alone? Wearing all of that bling? And counting cash? Being beaten up and robbed was a virtual certainty in that situation!" And they'd be exactly right. That doesn't mean that the people who robbed me weren't criminals - in fact, my point is that they ARE criminals. They were criminals BEFORE I chose to walk down that street in the first place. There are ALWAYS going to be criminals in the world, and if you take those risks, your comfort and safety CANNOT be assured. Nor is it in any way reasonable to blame the non-criminals for the behavior of the criminals. Not everyone shares your morals and values. Many people grew up without fathers, without discipline, without morals. Many people come from other cultures, and don't respect yours. You need to know and expect that, especially in certain areas. You can't walk around in the world and take no accountability for your own choices. The world is rude, the world is dangerous, and it does not always respect you or your rights. That's what happens when laws aren't enforced, police are defunded, DAs don't prosecute crimes, and overall morals drop. So if you pretend like none of that happens, then you are going to sometimes face some uncomfortable consequences to other poor decisions you make, such as your choice of clothes.
- ChrisMaster69
  +1 y
  @MrOracle you are literally making excuses for rapists.
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  @Subarugirl Yes, I see you detected my subtle rhetorical device?
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  @ChrisMaster69 No, I'm not. I abhor criminals and I give them exactly zero slack. They are 100% responsible for their actions, whether they are robbers or rapists or whatever. No where did I say "oh, the bad guys get a pass." What I *AM* saying is that the idea is to avoid being a target in the first place. Some victims are targeted randomly, and no one can help that, but most victims are targeted because their behavior or their choices have made them a "better victim" than others. If you make yourself an inviting target, and you are then targeted, the fact that you were morally in the right DOES NOT HELP YOU - you're still going to suffer the attack. The smarter strategy is to take reasonable precautions to NOT be targeted in the first place, even if you shouldn't have to. Legally, morally, I have every right to be in the 'hood at night, dressed however I like, wearing whatever jewelry I like, and counting as much cash as I like. But if I do that, then I'm an idiot and almost certainly WILL be targeted for robbery and likely violence. And no one would be shocked, because it's obvious that this is a likely outcome. Just the same, a girl wearing revealing clothing, especially in the wrong places, is GOING to be leered at, catcalled, and propositioned. I'm not excusing or defending that behavior, but I recognize that it's going to happen, and I know that most or all of it could be avoided by choosing different clothes. Your actions and choices have a direct impact on your outcomes, good and bad, and you need to take responsibility for them - because either way, you WILL face the consequences of the world. I wish it wasn't that way, but I can't change the world either. And with so many people SUPPORTING things like "defund the police" and voting in DAs that refuse to prosecute crimes, these things and others are going to get WORSE instead of better. That's not what I want, but it's what's going to happen.
- ChrisMaster69
  +1 y
  The words you used said exactly that, You are also implying that people from poor areas will rape you but the posh guy won’t… Sounds like typical privileged talk aka being Snobby. Back to the original, it does not matter if she is wearing revealing clothes (could be minor amount of skin showing) or if she’s wearing jeans, trainers and a top, the girl will get catcalled. No matter what she is wearing, that cat call should not happen, there is a thing called knowing right from wrong, or showing respect. It’s not about the social status of a person. Its not about the social status of an area. Also you seem okay with sexual stuff being shouted at a minor.
- Subarugirl
  +1 y
  Excuse me. People are responsible for their own actions.
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  Wait! What kind of MORON can afford a $10k watch, but scrimps on $800 shoes? I would think “poser, the watch is a fake… a good fake, yeah sure, but definitely fake! Also if he can only afford cheap shoes, and he is walking through a…. Can we just call it a “high-crime neighborhood” and he’s is OBVIOUSLY deliberately counting his roll of cash? Am I the only one who KNOWS that this cock womble is really a undercover Cop? an we just call it a “high-crime neighborhood” and he’s is OBVIOUSLY deliberately counting his roll of cash? Am I the only one who KNOWS that this cock womble is really a Undercover Cop?
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  “Non-criminals” what a ridiculous metaphor for VICTIMS!
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  Hey Mr. “what were you wearing when you were raped”. I was raped when I was 13, the criminal who raped me was a multi-millionaire, I know EXACTLY what he was worth because he was my uncle, and had the EXACT same trust fund I have (I just cannot access mine until I turn 25). On the day I was raped I was wearing a my little pony t-shirt, the LEAST form fitting jeans imaginable… Explain?
- Smashingdoozy
  +1 y
  Dude I get cat called more when I'm in an oversized t-shirt and sweats than when I'm in a skirt that only just covers my ass. How you dress doesn't matter. Teach men to be respectful, call out your friends when they act shitty and stop trying to victimize assholes.
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  @Smashingdoozy "Teach men to be respectful," This attitude is the problem. MOST men ARE respectful. But even if only 5% are not, that's still a lot of men out running around who will cause problems for you. And guess what? I'm not friends with those guys, I don't hang out with those guys. I'm not in any position to tell those guys anything. MY friends don't do that crap - and I've certainly spoke up when acquaintances around me were rude - but most of the men who are the problem are NOT the folks who were taught morals and values at home - they're the type of men who would steal your purse or your phone, or fake a repair on your car and charge you extra, or whatever. They're trash - but they're a minority of men and rarely do they hang around the good guys. That's the POINT: you can't expect just to "teach men to be good" because by the time they're adults, it's way too late. That stuff has to be learned as a child in order for the lesson to sink in and the good habits to be formed - and you'd be amazed at how horrifical bad some kids grow up. Boys especially need a solid male role model, and more and more of them don't have that growing up. So, you get a world that is salted with low-level criminals. They're here. You can't completely escape them, so you need to protect yourself.
- Smashingdoozy
  +1 y
  No I've seen actual good men watch and awkwardly laugh when their mates say or do inappropriate shit to women. I caught my own guy mates doing it, they don't now because I called them out, made them realize it's not ok. If every guy who is respectful made sure his mates were respectful, if anyone sees a man being disrespectful then they should call it out, call out shitty behavior then maybe, just maybe we'll have a shot at making a difference. If a man can walk around shirtless without being catcalled then women should be able to wear a fucking dress and heels without being catcalled.
- Smashingdoozy
  +1 y
  If everyone just fucking tried to help the people around them realize their shitty behavior then they can go on to raise respectful children. Nothing will change if you don't do anything to change it.
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  @MrOracle Again, you seem to have ignored my question, so I will ask again; if poverty, fatherlessness, and women dressing “too sexy” are the cause of rape, MY rapist had a father who stayed married to his mother, he was a multimillionaire, and I was dressed in a “My Little Pony T-Shirt” and “Very Loose fitting jeans” (given that I was 12 the day before, and I had yet to buy new “teenager” clothes) please explain?
- Aletheia223
  +1 y
  Well said
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  @CrazyGirl2 This discussion isn't about rape, it's about being cat-called. You're moving the goal-posts here, not me. There's a HUGE, GIANT CHASM between cat-calling and rape, and there are millions of guys who think nothing of cat-calling an attractive woman (especially if she's dressed in a revealing way) who would never even consider rape. I ignored your question for that reason - that's not what this discussion is about and what I said about the topic at hand does not apply.
- ChrisMaster69
  +1 y
  @MrOracle you made it that by putting in apologist comments, making it okay for guys to react in certain ways. I think (personal opinion) at a very basic level you do not understand respect, you have it tied in to social status and how a person dresses, none of those matter with basic common decency. If a friend says something wrong, morally, socially wrong you call them in it. For example one of your friends sees a 13 yr old girl and says wow I could bang her… You would I like to hope call them in it Another refers negatively about a black person You call them on it. Then on catcalls a girl. Irrespective of how she is dressed, the social level of the area, you call them on it. That’s how people behave, we all out wrongs, age, gender, sexuality, social status, ethnicity, religion do not matter. This it appears is what at a core level you simply do not understand. Right from wrong
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  @MrOracle Ahhh, but that’s where you are wrong! Because when you are a 5’1 (154cm) and weigh less than 100lbs (45.4kg) and you HAVE been raped… walking from a club to your car wearing a short skirt, and very low cut top, and hearing guy’s yelling out the most disgusting things, believe me, it is more than just terrifying! And when I say that, and guys ask “then why would you go out looking like that?” My answer is because I have a RIGHT to walk from point A to point B without fearing that I will get raped again! ESPECIALLY given that I rarely drink and I’m usually happy to be the designated driver, I will often have to go by myself to go get my JEEP and return for my friends waiting at the club! Do you feel that I should HAVE to dress like a nun to feel safe, or what? Every example you’ve given I have struck down… you say that women wearing short skirts, are as stupid as a guy walking through a high crime area counting cash (presumably because if you offer enough of a temptation, someone is gonna bite?) Then I point out that when I was raped, I was wearing a “My Little Pony T-shirt, and basically baggy jeans” so what does sexy short skirts have to do with it? But you just ignored me “because I moved the goalposts”. So maybe YOU can tell us… Why do we NOT deserve to feel safe when walking from a nightclub (OR ANYWHERE) wearing totally appropriate clothing for a nightclub, back to our cars? OR would it be just TOO MUCH to maybe expect that at LEAST one guy in that car, could yell at his friends “hey assholes, leave the woman the fuck alone, guys you might be terrifying her… Don’t be assholes! Why don’t you treat her like she was your mother or your sister, and show her some respect, and just allow her to get to her car without being scared shitless by assholes like US!”? Eh? Or are the goalposts just too far away for you to grasp the point?
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  @ChrisMaster69 YOU keep putting words into my mouth that I never said. Multiple times I have said that I'm NOT excusing this behavior, I'm NOT making them any less responsible for it, etc. What they're doing is not okay. I'm merely pointing out that IT'S STILL GOING TO HAPPEN, because SOME percentage of men DO NOT CARE about what's right and wrong, or what's moral and what isn't. And people need to keep those people in mind. That's why we lock our doors at night, why we have alarms on cars and security cameras and police officers. It would be great if we didn't need any of that, but that's not the world we live in. Acknowledging the ugly reality of the world is NOT the same thing as excusing it. Hell, fewer people are more "tough on crime" than I am. I'm absolutely against lawlessness and intimidation and threats - more than most. I'm not the one voting to let criminals off the hook. But I also recognize that such people are out in the world, so I CAN'T safely leave my car unlocked, or leave my phone unattended. And if I was a girl, and catcalls bothered or intimidated me, I certainly wouldn't go out in revealing clothes, because I understand how the world IS.
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  @CrazyGirl2 You keep talking about "deserving" to be safe. I agree - you deserve that, and we all do. BUT THAT'S NOT THE REALITY OF THE WORLD. The world is UNsafe. It always has been. It probably always will be. We've made it far safer than it has been for much of history, but it's never been totally safe and it's gotten worse over the last 20 years or so. Even though you deserve to be safe leaving a club at night, the world simply isn't safe, and it's less safe if you're a small woman wearing revealing clothes and out alone at night. That's not fair, and it's not right, but it's REALITY. Maybe we can work together to improve things in the future, but TODAY, that's how it IS. And if you insist on denying that, then you put yourself at risk of harm - and I'm trying to tell you NOT to do that, because I don't want to see you hurt. But I can't stop you, and I can't tell you not to go to dangerous places or do dangerous things. Only YOU can protect YOU, by making smarter decisions.
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  @ChrisMaster69 VERY WELL SAID SIR 👏🏻 Women everywhere thank you immensely! I know I do! Thanks ☺️
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  Jesus Christ, you are SUCH an asshole! All you keep doing is making this about women in revealing clothes! Women tell you “I get catcalled wearing sweatpants and a sweatshirt, you change the subject to a guys wearing a Rolex and counting cash in a poor, high crime neighborhood! Oh, and you bring it back to revealing clothes… I tell you, “but I was raped on my 13th birthday wearing a my little pony t-shirt “ and I’m the asshole for moving the goalposts because we were not discussing rape… dude we weren’t discussing men walking around counting cash, but YOU had no problem “moving the goalposts THERE” then when I bring it full circle and ask about a VERY real problem that affects ME when I act as the designated driver, and suddenly YOU are back to “Women should not wear short skirts “. Fücking @chrismaster69 is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT YOU…. You absolutely DO NOT understand the difference between RIGHT AND WRONG! Here is the difference between YOU and @chrismaster69 the two of you are standing on a street corner waiting for an Uber with some friends. One of them yells out “yo baby, show us your tits!” Another yells, “fuck your tits, turn around and bend over I wanna see that juicy cunt” (all things I’ve heard)! YOU would say “she shouldn’t have dressed like that if she doesn’t want to hear anything like that!” Chris would yell at the guys to shut the fuck up, and then apologize to me for his FORMER a friends behavior, and tell me “don’t worry miss I promise you, I won’t allow any harm to come to you, again I’m so sorry, not all men believe that behavior is appropriate, have a nice evening, drive safely! by the way my name is Chris masters if you want to file a police report on these guys I’ll be a witness for you… goodnight!” And you would repeat “Seriously dude wtf? If she doesn’t like it she shouldn’t dress like that!” THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE between a man who gets it, and YOU!
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  @MrOracle I forgot to tag you above it is DEFINITELY TO YOU!
- ChrisMaster69
  +1 y
  @MrOracle but I’m not putting words in your mouth. Anyone reading this can clearly see where you mention differences between social affluent areas of town, the difference between body types, how it’s the girls fault and she should be prepared to accept that. Quote: A girl with an average body is going to look less sexual in a given sundress than a girl with a curvy body wearing the exact same dress. Unquote. That is YOUR preference, I actually don’t care for curvy and prefer normal Quote: It also makes a different what environment you're going to be in. A dress that might fit in just fine with an upscale fashionable crowd at a charity event is going to come across VERY differently at a car junkyard (usually located in industrial areas) or walking down the street in the ghetto. Unquote. The movie Pretty Woman springs to mind (nod to another question where this was mentioned) You bring social status in to it, does not matter, it’s about respect. Okay she’s from a poor area, she still deserves same level of respect, however you are all about justifying it being okay if that’s the case. The point which you miss is that in no situation is there justification. Quote: I'm merely pointing out that IT'S STILL GOING TO HAPPEN, because SOME percentage of men DO NOT CARE about what's right and wrong, or what's moral and what isn't. Unquote. That describes you. You could have said no it’s wrong and people should stop it, should call people out on it. A very short sentence. Instead you went in to a War & Peace narrative using CAPITALS to give your reason why it is allowable. FYI, it’s also shit to call people nerds, assume homosexual etc because of how they dress. Your entire argument comes over sounding like PRIVILEGED white American, living in a middle to upper middle class area. No I am not putting words into your mouth, I am simply replying to the words you have put down, the problem is you appear just not to get it at all.
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  @MrOracle Oh, and I REALLY don’t want you to feel “picked on” for being a sexist… you are REALLY pretty RACIST TOO (these are YOUR WORDS) “ Imagine me walking down the street alone at night in the 'HOOD wearing a bunch of gold and diamond jewelry, dressed in an expensive suit with $800 shoes, wearing a $10,000 watch, and counting a roll of money as I walked down the street. Do you imagine I would be able to do this completely unmolested, or do you think it's likely that some of the locals might jump me, beat my ass (or kill me outright) and steal all of my stuff?“. So, my question is why did you choose ”the hood”? Why wouldn’t you use an impoverished town in Appalachia? I mean it’s famous for being the poorest area in the United States, it just happens to be almost entirely white! Huh? That is weird?
- Ez-Bri-Z
  +1 y
  I'm really confused by something you said @MrOracle. You said that the person catcalling/or in the case of a rapist is 100% responsible for their action but then also say that we as women need to be pickier in what we where to avoid it so by that philosophy the catcaller can't be 100% responsible because you are blaming the girl for wearing something revealing and being in a place she shouldn't be. This is why they are getting upset. You are wanting to argue both sides of it. Either they are 100% responsible regardless of what the woman is wearing or you are splitting that blame and putting some of it on the woman for the mistake of existing and not being able to anticipate what every person she walks across that day will find appealing.
- Ez-Bri-Z
  +1 y
  Wear*
- Ez-Bri-Z
  +1 y
  Actually, let me oversimplify this. If my son is playing baseball out in the street and he hits the ball through someone's window, am I allowed to blame the homeowner for having glass out in front of their house near an open street where kids live? I mean, my kid is 100% responsible for his actions, but homeowners should take responsibility in their inaction of leaving vulnerable parts of their house unprotected and making it easier to break when kids are playing. That's what your argument basically boils down to.
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  @Ez-Bri-Z Wow, kudos!👏🏻 I think your original statement was perfect, no need to get hung up on a few typos, they happen to the best of us. Your follow-up while adding extraneous data ie baseball that I’m SURE he’ll use to make this about baseball, but it too is very illustrative of your point, ie: you can’t have it both ways! Either the male who catcalls bears 100% of the fault, OR the it IS the woman’s fault because she “showed have known that a pig would be on THAT street cornet at THAT EXACT moment!”
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  The guy catcalling is responsible for his catcalling. That doesn't meant the girl isn't responsible for her clothing choices. Everyone understands that a girl who is dressing in a revealing way is going to get a lot of extra attention - that's WHY (in nearly all cases) women dress revealing. But that also is going to attract attention that is NEGATIVE - including catcalling. And some women are fine with being catcalled. Some freak out about it. If you're the type who freaks out about it, then choose your clothing differently. I swear, some women believe themselves to be completely immune to responsibility and accountability for their own actions. Again, NOT excusing the creeps - but there will always be creeps, and if you are going out alone, you can't always rely on a good man to be around protecting you from them. If that's too difficult a concept for you to grasp, then I give up, and I hope you survive your encounters with the creeps that you've attracted the attention of.
- ChrisMaster69
  +1 y
  @MrOracle have you got a partner? Female? Daughter? Grand kids?
- Subarugirl
  +1 y
  Just so we are all clear, the way a person dressed isn’t an invitation for harassment period
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  @ChrisMaster69 I have a female partner, yes. I also have sisters and nieces. What's your point? None of that changes the fact that creeps will always exist, and that I can't possibly protect them personally (beyond teaching them about situational awareness and self-defense concepts), given that my oldest niece is in college in San Diego and my youngest is in high school outside of Los Angeles, and I'm in the Bay Area. But they're smart enough to understand this concept and apply it to themselves already. They've seen me stand up for them and be concerned for their safety, but they also know that they can't rely on me for protection when they are hundreds of miles away and living their own lives. If we could wish away creeps, I'd join in. But that's not possible. Nor can I shame parents who are raising their kids poorly when I am not around those people, so there's little I can do about the next generation of creeps. Laws don't help when they aren't enforced or when police are defunded and demoralized and the creeps are emboldened. In the end, you have to look out for yourself.
- ChrisMaster69
  +1 y
  @MrOracle okay we have firmly established it does not matter what a girl wears, she’s gets harassment. We have also established you believe it’s her fault. Now assume your niece etc is 10, Is it her fault she has someone catcalling her?
- Ez-Bri-Z
  +1 y
  "Everyone understands that a girl who is dressing in a revealing way is going to get a lot of extra attention - that's WHY (in nearly all cases) women dress revealing. But that also is going to attract attention that is NEGATIVE - including catcalling." Or maybe, just maybe, she is dressing how she wants for herself and not for being made to feel uncomfortable. As others have pointed out, sometimes it doesn't even have to be provocative. It could just be jeans and a t-shirt and we still have to hear it. The one at fault is the person cat calling. The minute you add "yeah, but..." you are now excusing that behavior even if marginally. That kind of behavior is wrong. Full stop. Let's rework the idea that women should have to change what they wear because some guys can't control themselves. Let's make the narrative how we can rehabilitate or punish and remove those who perform those actions. "And some women are fine with being catcalled. Some freak out about it. If you're the type who freaks out about it, then choose your clothing differently" Or how about we punish and shame those who do it and excuse it while blaming women for just putting clothes on and walking around outside? "I swear, some women believe themselves to be completely immune to responsibility and accountability for their own actions. Again, NOT excusing the creeps" We are responsible when it comes to raising our own kids and teaching them that is isn't ok to be that way, but I shouldn't be responsible to have to walk outside in oversized men's clothes with my hair in a mess just so I don't run the risk of being catcalled.
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  @Subarugirl You and I and most people here agree on that - but the creeps don't. And their views are the only ones that really matter. If there was 100 people in a room, and 99 believed that murder was vile and evil and completely wrong, but 1 was a serial killer, the opinion of the 99 isn't going to prevent the serial killer from killing. At best, the killer would be caught AFTER taking a life (or many), and by then it's too late. Similarly, a robber doesn't care if you think theft is wrong - they'll still rob you, and if they see you with expensive jewelry or clothes, you're likely to be targeted specifically. You can get mad at ME all you like - it's not going to change the minds of those who do these things. The creeps who catcall are going to keep doing it, and dressing more revealing significantly increases the chances that they'll do it. What I think about it makes zero difference unless I'm there, and I almost certainly won't be.
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  @Ez-Bri-Z Yes, that kind of behavior is wrong. WHO IS GOING TO STOP THEM? HOW DO YOU THINK THE PROBLEM IS GOING TO GET FIXED IN THE REAL WORLD? Instead of criticizing my solution, please offer an alternative solution that is viable in the real world - not some utopian idea that can never be implemented in real life. Please, enlighten me.
- Smashingdoozy
  +1 y
  Who is going to stop them? Hold people around you accountable that's literally all we ask. If everyone did that then we would probably see a difference. The issue is they're not being told what they're doing is wrong, they think it's funny or cool, if you embarrass them enough they'll fucking stop.
- ChrisMaster69
  +1 y
  @MrOracle you are still saying it’s the girls fault. You are that much in your own privileged world, you simply cannot see that. Yes people will murder others, people will rape others. It is not the fault of the victim. Back to your niece Is it her fault when someone cat calls her? Yes someone will do it, no matter what she is wearing, yes there are fuckwits out there and guys like making excuses for them. Is it your niece’s fault when someone comments on her tits being hot? This is what you are saying and what you said at the outset You keep saying it’s the victims fault. Have you had a similar conversation with all the women in the house hold? How it’s not the fault of the guys doing the cat calling aka harassment, it’s their fault for wearing clothes and going outside? Yes people will always do this However, how many people shout out at a 13 yr old ‘look at the tits on her’ What would happen if they did? A black girl walking down the road If someone shouted ‘ look at that N …. ‘ how would people react? It does not really happen, people know it’s wrong and not socially acceptable There is zero difference with cat calling / harassment, it’s not socially acceptable. However your comments make excuses for it, it’s very much a ‘well boys will be boys ‘ thing.
- Still-alive
  +1 y
  Tagging to read all this later.
- Ez-Bri-Z
  +1 y
  Actual solution? Sure watch, it's easy. "Bro, not cool. Anyway, what were we talking about again before she walked by?"
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  Please explain how this solves the problem? Who is supposed to be saying this?
- Smashingdoozy
  +1 y
  Am I invisible
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  @MrOracle ALL MEN! Whenever ANY guy catcalls a woman, if ALL OTHER MEN IMMEDIATELY began walking up to him, and saying “bro! Not fücking cool! You don’t talk to women like that asshole, apologize to her” If ALL men just did that the same way everyone, regardless of race would be all over the shit of anyone who called av15y/o gir an “N” word! Do the same with catcalling! The problem is, YOU don’t think it’s a big deal!
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  @Smashingdoozy No, I see you, but oddly I didn’t for about 2 minutes, I looked at it and you weren’t here, I went back to my notifications checked to make sure I was correct, and when I clicked the second time… THEN you were here.
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  @CrazyGirl2 Do you think you're going to get ALL MEN to do ANYTHING? Good luck with that. Let me restate the problem: the men who do this tend to hang around with other men who do it. They don't hang around men like me who are against it. So, who is going to be there to tell them not to do it? Their friends, who do it too? Plenty of men ALREADY police their own friends as best they can, but even that is limited to when the two are together. It does nothing from when that friend goes out and does it alone. So, this is not a solution. It HELPS, but it does NOT solve the problem, does it? So, how are the women going to be protected TODAY, RIGHT NOW, from men who do this? How do we PREVENT incidences, in a way that is practical and workable TODAY?
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  NO, I absolutely KNOW that I cannot get any men to do anything they don’t want to do… YOU! I expect YOU to do it! I honestly believe that if just 10% of guys shame their friends into not catcalling, that 10% will be 30 to 40% over night almost! And with 30 to 40% of men correcting the abhorrent behavior of others, then within a year maybe 90% of men will believe that catcalling women is fucking disgusting, and with 90% of men defending women from the 10% of truly repugnant assholes… that 10% will stop, if for no other reason than “fear for their own safety” and wouldn’t THAT be beautifully ironic?
- Smashingdoozy
  +1 y
  @mrOracle you know you can call out strangers? See something say something.
- ChrisMaster69
  +1 y
  @MrOracle how about this for a really simple approach. You are on GaG as an Influencer All you have done so far is support the harassment / cat calling of girls. No doubt if this was for someone being called Gay, the N word you would have used a similar argument, saying it was the bad people that said it. Why not as an Influencer, when these questions come up, rather a war and peace story, simply say along the lines of… It is never the fault of the target / victim of the attack, it is wrong to attack someone purely based on Gender, Sexuality, Ethnicity, Clothing, Religion, Disability, Social standing etc. When this happens it’s important that everyone stands up and calls this out as not socially acceptable. I mean that would be really using your Influencer status to actually influence guys on here when they say it’s the victims fault. Of course, that would mean, you believe this is the case and you have the bottle for it.
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  @Smashingdoozy I agree 100% if you see my answer to @MrOracle above, I brought up a scenario where within a year, could you imagine guy’s terrified to catcall because they are worried that if any other man hears them there will be an ass whooping! Seriously… How beautifully ironic would it be if guys were suddenly terrified to catcall women, because if anyone else heard them, there would be the possibility violence against THEM? Eh?
- Still-alive
  +1 y
  Just one contribution i want to make in this conversation is that we really need to change what “normal” is for everyone. So it may be “normal” that we live in a society where asshole guys catcall and slut-shame women, but that doesn't mean it should ALWATS be that way. And it starts here today with the guys in our society today to make the new normal become reality.
- Smashingdoozy
  +1 y
  I want to live in a world like that @crazygirl2
- ChrisMaster69
  +1 y
  @Smashingdoozy you know you can call out strangers? See something say something. That’s like ‘Silence is Violence’
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  @Smashingdoozy Excellent! @chrismaster69 is on board, @ez-bri-z is on board, @still-alive is on board let’s do it #AnimalControl baby! If you wanna catcall, we’ll just call #AnimalControl to take you away and neuter you asshole! Oh! And did you see how he’s suddenly gone from “if you don’t like catcalls, maybe don’t wear revealing clothing” to “hey we all hate guys who catcall… you hate them, I hate them”! Woah, what happened to “a normal girl in a sundress is fine, but a curvy woman with big boobs in a sundress will attract a lot of unwanted attention!”? Where is THAT guy all of a sudden? Dgmw, if he has genuinely changed…. Okay, but has he thought?
- Smashingdoozy
  +1 y
  Told Chris that I'ma start hissing at people who cat call me
- Still-alive
  +1 y
  @Smashingdoozy i approve. Ill growl
- CrazyGirl2
  +1 y
  @Still-alive EXCELLENT! On the count of three… 1, 2, GET HIM!!
- MrOracle
  +1 y
  So, now you expect me to follow women around and shame other men for them? How many hours of my week do I need to devote to this? Again, I'm virtually never around men who do this (and I DO call it out the rare times I am), because I pick friends and colleagues better than that. So if you are waiting for ME to solve this problem for you, you're going to be waiting forever. I'm simply not present when and where these things happen. Nor are most of the guys who agree that it shouldn't happen. So, you've not solved your problem at all. You are simply trying to shift the responsibility for this problem to people who don't themselves do the things you want stopped, and who are rarely around when someone does. That means that the guys who DO catcall are still out there, still doing what they do, and there's probably a far greater chance that women are going to encounter them than I will. I don't go to clubs in the city (or anywhere else), nor to most of the places these things occur. You've managed to put words in my mouth, to ignore every point where I fully agree with you, and you've certainly not provided a REALISTIC answer - you've given a utopian one. You could have simply said "we ladies would appreciate it if men called out other men when those men catcall in front of them" and I'd have been fully on board with that - but that's still not nearly enough to solve this problem. But by you saying that it is the solution, you can absolve yourselves of any responsibility, and go about your lives as if you have nothing at risk. That's going to get some of you hurt, and THAT is what I want to completely avoid. Your way won't avoid it at all, my way won't avoid it completely, but it will lower your risks considerably. See the difference?
- ChrisMaster69
  +1 y
  @MrOracle how about this for a really simple approach. You are on GaG as an Influencer - WHY NOT USE IT. All you have done so far is support the harassment / cat calling of girls. No doubt if this was for someone being called Gay, the N word you would have used a similar argument, saying it was the bad people that said it. Why not as an Influencer, when these questions come up, rather a war and peace story, simply say along the lines of… It is never the fault of the target / victim of the attack, it is wrong to attack someone purely based on Gender, Sexuality, Ethnicity, Clothing, Religion, Disability, Social standing etc. When this happens it’s important that everyone stands up and calls this out as not socially acceptable. I mean that would be really using your Influencer status to actually influence guys on here when they say it’s the victims fault. Of course, that would mean, you believe this is the case and you have the bottle for it. START DOING THIS ON GAG, CALL OUT HOMOPHOBES, CALL OUT RACIST, WHERE A QUESTION LIKE THIS IS NOT VICTIMS FAULT, THEN CALL IT OUT. CALL OUT BIGOTS ON GAG, ITS NOT LIKE YOU DON’T HAVE TO LOOK FAR. AT THE MOMENT YOU INFLUENCE BY SAYING ITS OKAY TO BLAME THE VICTIM. YOU PUT TOGETHER LONG FANCY WORDY REPLIES. THE SIMPLE BIT IS DO THE RIGHT THING, START WITH GAG, CHANGE PEOPLES THINKING ON HERE, INFLUENCE THEM.

Most Helpful Guy

bsann2015 Xper 4
+1 y
No absolutely not!!!
Personally I am a nudist and I think a person should be able to wear as much or as little as they feel comfortable with that is part of freedom if you want to walk around wearing whatever you want whenever you want that's your choice and that should be your freedom to wear what you want or not wear what you don't.
It is society that has try to teach us what is proper and what is not and they are wrong.
Just like a man can walk out in public without a shirt having b or c size breast's and that is legal but a woman can't do the same it seems like an outdated unfair law to me.
Wear what you want as much or as little and just be yourself and who cares what the world around you thinks
0 0 0 0

Most Helpful Girls

CrazyGirl2 Guru
+1 y
Absolutely NOT! What I choose to wear does NOT give anyone the right to yell out disgusting shit! Especially when I was 17 (last year)! No woman should EVER have to tolerate that level of disrespect, but especially not minors! It’s just wrong on so many levels! Plus, just a cursory reading of this shows women complaining about getting catcalled while wearing the LEAST revealing clothing possible! It’s not about the clothes, it’s about the disrespect from the tiny percentage of men who do catcall, and ALL their “innocent” friends who stand by and say NOTHING whatsoever to their “friends” when those friends are completely disrespectful and inappropriate to women and girls!
0 1 0 0
GaGirls Xper 6
+1 y
Yes and no. I am not going to get into why yes because I'd have to write paragraphs but no because she cannot control anyone but herself. She doesn't force them to say what they say. The question is what does force them and in that you will come to find your answer to the other side which is yes. Don't think surface though, it is very very deep.
0 0 0 0

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What Girls & Guys Said

10 50

AustinMan Influencer
+1 y
The guys are pigs but she probably knew it was coming.
1 0 0 0
chrissykerdock Guru
+1 y
its not her fault per se but it's nice to be whistled at don't you think?
0 0 0 0
jaybee281 Explorer
+1 y
I think it's better to not see it from the lens of someone has to be at fault - there are things in your control and things that aren't - If you're wearing revealing clothes (which I do encourage I mean who wouldn't want sexiness in their life), then you should expect such things happening and just brush it off - the way I see it - Do the revealing clothes and catcalling outweigh the not sexy clothes and no catcalling for you personally?
0 0 0 0
OlderAndWiser Editor
+1 y
What is the purpose in wearing the revealing clothes?
0 0 0 0
ChrisMaster69 Master
+1 y
Nope not at all.

it’s fairly simple for someone to shut their mouth and show some respect.

however some fuckwits feel the need to say something.
1 0 0 0
- Shamiah02
  +1 y
  Facts
ohshee Master
+1 y
I'm not sure I know for me when I was younger if did a catcall it was this * Psst* all girls look to *psst*
I just wanted her to look I would smile and kind of like shake my head like you have it going on you are beautiful and sometimes I would say that but isn't that what a Girl Wants you look as beautiful and be acknowledged for it
1 0 0 0
Squiggles88 Xper 5
+1 y
No I think other people need to stop acting like animals. But at the same time I think we have to remember we live on this day and age where unfortunately these things happen
0 1 0 0
sufficientrisk Xper 1
+1 y
When would it ever be their fault to be catcalled.
0 0 0 0
ManOnFire Influencer
+1 y
She knew what she was wearing, and acknowledges that it was revealing, so she is also aware that she will be looked at sexually and even get comments on it.

Are these guys showing bad behavior by catcalling her? Definitely. But the attention she gets for wearing clothes she knows are revealing is her responsibility.
1 0 0 0
SarahP080102 Yoda
+1 y
No it isn't but I'm guessing she wants the attention
0 2 0 0
- lycanthrope3
  +1 y
  Did you get dog paws tats
- SarahP080102
  +1 y
  Not Yet
- lycanthrope3
  +1 y
  have you earned them
- Show All Show Less
- SarahP080102
  +1 y
  Nope
Miristheiss Master
+1 y
Catcalled?

This doesn't even cross my radar of things to spend mental energy on.
0 1 0 0
HighValue Guru
+1 y
Yep.
0 0 0 0
Agape93 Master
+1 y
Nope
0 1 0 0
Dargil Master
+1 y
It's not a fault. It's a benefit via cause and effect. If she doesn't want to hear them, she should dress like a grandma.
0 0 0 0
dwiller943 Yoda
+1 y
Nope.
0 0 0 0
Shamiah02 Xper 6
+1 y
Nope.
People need to stop protecting the people who can't control themselves and start putting responsibility on them.
Instead they blame everyone else because someone can't control themselves.
That's a far more serious issue than the choice of clothes warn.
0 0 0 0
MelodyBlue811 Xper 3
+1 y
No it's not her fault men have to act like twat waffles.. thinking they can say whatever nasty thing that pops in their head.
0 3 0 0
Phoenix98 Master
+1 y
If you dress a part don't be surprised when people treat you like it.

When your dressing in revealing/slutty clothes how exactly do you expect people to treat you? With respect lol?
0 0 0 0
Hangry06 Yoda
+1 y
It's not her fault. But she should expect such things in this world
0 0 0 0
Subarugirl Yoda
+1 y
Absolutely not! What you wear doesn't give people the right to harass someone else.
0 2 0 0
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