Sexual Relationships 
Sexual Health Also, this is hypothetical.
+1 y
Should men be allowed to vote on abortion laws and issues?
Anonymous
Just asking since the biggest complaint about men weighing in on the issue is 'it's not up to you to decide what a woman can do to her body.' So if a man isn't allowed to tell a woman if she can or can't have an abortion, should they even be allowed to vote on abortion laws?
Also, this is hypothetical.
Also, this is hypothetical.
Select gender and age to cast your vote:
Updates:
+1 y
Not even going to lie, I'm surprised anyone even voted for 'no' lol
1 1
What Girls & Guys Said
49 120Women be like: "Men shouldn't have a say in what women do with their bodies... but please, for the love of god, pay for my abortion and my contraceptives, and my tampons..." -________-
baha look at those pink downvotes go
@bedroomdweller That's how you find the truth here. And @AleDeEurope Yeah, no say about her body, but even if she "forgot" (lied about taking) birth control, she gets all the say over your wallet she wants.
@bedroomdweller @Notorisch_Arschloch It's funny cause they want "control over their body" but then expect the government to pay for all of it. And yeah, let's see how many pink downvotes I get, just proving what I said is right.
Oop! There's another one since I last saw it! Pink downvotes feels like scoring a cop kill in GTA just before your stars disappear and getting away with it.
I think men should only have a say when they are in opposition to the abortion, and after the birth of the baby, they will be given all parental responsibility, and the mother should be allowed to leave them both with no cost of her own - except for cases im which the child was comcieved of rape or the pregnancy was potentially life threatening for the mother.
However, men should not be allowed to have a say when they are in favor of aborting a child, but the mother is not. And in that case, the father should also be free to walk away at zero cost.
In other words, whichever parent is in favor of keeping the baby should overrule the other parent - gender of the parents aside.
Why should the man get to walk away with zero cost? That kind of requirement would neither be equal nor serve society.
@cipher42 So it is fair to let the female walk away at zero cost, but not the male? We live in a progressive era of gender equality, so a female is just as capable of providing for a child on her own as a male is.
She never gets to walk away at zero cost? Did you think abortions are just a matter of snapping your fingers and not being pregnant anymore?
@cipher42 *financial* cost. you know what I meant
Uhh, what? Abortions do cost money? And if you're talking about the father's cost, exactly what cost should he pay?
@cipher42 *facepalm* I'm talking about child support. Allow me to reword my entire response: One parent wants an abortion, one parent wants to keep the kid. The one who wants to keep the kid should completely overrule the other parent. Gender of the parent is completely irrelevent. The parent who wanted the abortion, but became a parent should not be held financially responsible for the child. They should be able to walk away completely. Aka no child support. Kapeesh?
I understood what you were suggesting already. My issue is that allowing the guy to just opt out of child support neither promotes equality nor serves society, and actually just allows guys to take absolutely zero responsibility for getting women pregnant, which I think is a bad thing, not a good one.
@cipher42 First of all, I gave you a completely gender neutral scenario, and you assumed that it was the man who was walking away without paying child support. I am already sensing sexist undertones from you. I believe that whether it is the father walking away, or the mother, they should not be required to pay child support, because they didn't want to be parents. The other parent wanted the child, so they should be entirely responsible for taking care of that child. Also, it takes two to tango. If the sex was consensual, the woman is just as responsible for the pregnancy as the man is. Now she either has two choices: 1. Abandon her responsibilities and abort the child. If the father wants an abortion too, they can go their separate ways. If the father wants to keep the kid, then he can keep the kid after she gives birth to it, he can take care of it all on his own, and she can leave - free of cost. 2. Adhere to her responsibilities and keep the child. (continued)
(continued) If the father wants to keep the child too, then they can share custody, just like a normal pair of divorced parents. If the father wants an abortion, she overrides that decision and gives birth to the baby, but is responsible for taking care of it on her own, while the father can walk away - free of cost.
Buddy your original scenario was gendered, don't even give me that shit. And if we actually really wanted to be gender neutral, then we've gotta account for men having abortions too. But we're talking about the most common scenario here because that's honestly just less effort, so deal. And why exactly should the father have the option of causing pregnancies all over the place without having to face any consequences whatsoever? The mother always has to face consequences, whether she aborts or not. I think you're looking at this wrong tbh. Consider that whole people being "responsible" for the pregnancy argument you made. So in this case, it would be people being responsible for taking care of a child they created. We give women an out here because a) when abortions take place, the fetus can't feel pain or suffer, so not taking care of it doesn't have a significant negative impact, and b) women's right to bodily autonomy is important enough to override their "responsibility"
However, in the case of the man, neither of those arguments apply. When child support is being paid, it is being paid for the sake of the child, which can in fact suffer negative consequences if not properly cared for. Additionally, there is no right to financial autonomy, at least not one on the level of the rights that give women the right to abortion (actually privacy, if you wanna get constitutional). So why should we allow men to walk away with zero responsibility and zero consequences?
Because we let women do just that
Again, no we do not.
The physical and emotional side effects of pregnancy+abortion as well as the actual monetary cost of the abortion are a thing that exists.
What the hell are you talking about? If the child is born (which is what we've been discussing this whole time), ther are no "physical and emotional side effects of pregnancy+abortion as well as the actual moneyary cost of the abortion" because there was no abortion. To add to that, if I wasn't clear, the only time an abortion should be carried out should be if both parents unanimously agree to have the abortion - and in that case they should split the medical bill 50-50. As for the physical and emotional side effects, that is the sacrifice the mother was apparently willing to make when she opted for the abortion. Anytime one parent wants to keep the baby, the baby should be kept, and the parent who wanted to keep the baby should cover all costs on their own, while the unwilling parent covers none.
Jesus Christ learn to read. Since you appear to need a refresher, the conversation we were having was this: Me: "So why should we allow men to walk away with zero responsibility and zero consequences?" You: "Because we allow women to do just that." (Presumably talking bout abortion? Or just factually incorrect?) Me: "No we don't because abortion has costs" You: "We're not talking about abortion" (Even though your last comment definitely was talking about abortion?) Yeah, what the fuck? And phsyical/emotional pain is still a consequence of having an abortion? So still a consequence of pregnancy. And if you're gonna make that argument, why is it not valid to say that child support is something the dude who got the chick pregnant was a choice he was willing to make when he had sex with her?
@cipher42 "You:'Because we allow women to do just that' (Presumably talking bout abortion? Or just factually incorrect?)" - No, I was not referring to abortion, I was referring to child support. If a father wants to keep a child, but the mother wants to abort it [assuming that the mother even has the human decency to give birth to the child rather than stripping the father of his rights as a parent and murdering his baby (which, by the way, she should not be able to legally do)], she is not required to pay child support. Why should the father be required to pay child support if the roles are reversed? "And phsyical/emotional pain is still a consequence of having an abortion? So still a consequence of pregnancy." - The consequences of abortion are not automatically consequences of pregnancy, because not all pregnancies end in abortion (in fact, the scenarios we were discussing did not end in abortion).
Lol okay have you ever heard of a little something called the constitution? Because actually Supreme Court rulings very specifically say that what you're suggesting is unconstitutional. That whole women shouldn't be able to abort without the father's consent thing. But anyhow, the much more sensible argument to make here is to suggest that women pay child support too, not that no one should. Like, the government has very legitimate interests in ensuring that children are adequately cared for, and child support fulfills that interest. And women do already pay child support? I mean I don't know if there are gaps in the system, but if there are isn't it more sensible to fix the gaps rather than abolish the system entirely?
@cipher42 I don't give a rat's ass if it's constitutional or not. Human decency is more important to me than a 200 year old legal document. I don't believe that a parent should be required to financially support a child that they didn't want to raise, but I digress. As long as the law upholds gender equality (which it currently doesn't on this issue), I am content.
See, that's a very idealistic view is the issue. The Constitution quite honestly is not even about the 200 year old words, but about the fundamental rights we have and how some of the most well educated law scholars of our time think we can preserve them. How's the right to privacy sound to you? Do you understand that ensuring we have certain rights is pretty damn important? How are we supposed to do that if we only respect those rights where we feel like it? So this isn't even an issue of abortion at all really. It's a matter of whether child support laws should be fixed or just gotten rid of.
@cipher42 The constitution by no means upholds all basic human rights, hence the 27 amendments. We've changed it in the past, we can change it again, and we should change it again. Afterall, the constitution says practically nothing clearly - it's chock full of loopholes, back-peddling, and conflicting arguments. Every conclusion we've reached pertaining to the constitution was the loose interpretation of the vague wording in the document, by some revered judge at the time. If the right to protect your unborn baby from being murdered by someone else without even having a say is not in the constitution, it sure as hell should be.
Lol no it shouldn't. The right to dictate what someone else can do with their body is a ridiculously immoral right. Fuck that nonsense.
@cipher42 So is the right to have 100% control over the life of someone else's child. Too bad the two overlap so much. It's almost like we should be careful who we have sex with...
Not at all. It's called the right to bodily autonomy buddy.
@cipher42 What I'm trying to say is that both the right to protect your unborn child and the right to bodily autonomy are important, but you can't uphold one without violating the other. In my opinion, the right to bodily autonomy of one parent should be sacrificed to uphold the other parent's right to protect their unborn child in any case that doesn't involve rape or life threatening medical complications. I believe 9 months of discomfort and a few hours of pain is a small sacrifice to prevent a lifetime of mourning.
Yeah, no. I think forcing someone else to give up their right to their body for none months is wholly immoral and entirely unconscionable, and I'm DM glad that we have a constitution to protect us from people like you.
@cipher42 You have to be pretty damn selfish to not be willing to endure 9 measly months of tight pants and cravings (cry me a river), in order to salvage the life of a baby and save the father from a lifetime of mourning.
Laws aren't made to keep up from being selfish. And hilarious that you think pregnancy is so easy, but its definitely a whole lot more serious than you seem to think. So honestly, I thi k it's a whole lot more selfish to expect someone else to give up their body and their life for your whims. So go fuck yourself buddy, you clearly don't know shit about either pregnancy or really rights at all. People like you are the reason I'm glad we have a constitution.
@cipher42 People like you are the reason we are not progressing as a society. People like you use an outdated scroll of loopholes and indecisiveness to justify your callous nature.
It seems like you're asking two different questions.
About guys having a say on abortion laws and voting rights. Yes, they should be able to. I can't think of any way that a certain group of the population should be kept from participating in a vote or making laws and stuff.
Now, assuming abortion is legal in a country, when it comes down to actually choosing whether to have an abortion, as an individual, then my answer is no. At that point, it's the woman's decision. Her body, her choice.
Of course they should, it takes two people to generate a fetus
If a woman can decide whether to fix her mistake and have an abortion or accept the 18 years of responsibility, then a man should be able to decide to fix his mistake and require an abortion or accept the 18 years of responsibility.
A would-be father should be able to require an abortion of his child without consent of the would-be mother, if the would-be-mother can have an abortion of her child without the consent of the would-be-father. It is only fair.
Yes, as long as women get to vote exclusively male issues.
Of course, without our sperm, the women wouldn't able to produce babies. We are part of this therefore we men should vote too.
then don't give your precious sperm away.
@jacquesvol you are so not a man, just a joke.
@bobbyxx I'll happy to prove your wife that you're the joke and that I'm the man.
@jacquesvol And she shouldn't have opened up her vagina.
Absolutely, it takes two to make a baby and having children myself i would have lost my shit if my ex wife would have decided to abort the pregnancy without my consent. Having the baby is a given but deciding to abort should require both signatures.
The moment you start taking away voting rights from a parts of the population you start going down a very very slippery slope where only a certain groups will get to vote on certain issues and the voting results will always be in favor of that group as opposed to the good of all. The whole idea of "you don't get to vote on this if it doesn't directly concern you" is just so stupid and backwards I hope people don't actually believe in that.
I actually believe that abortion should be legal and you should be able to do it without the permission of the father but he should still be notified about it. But anyone who think that men should have no say about anything related to this whatsoever think about it like it. Imagine you are married to the man you love and you got pregnant and you are so happy because you've wanted this baby for a long time, and even tho he/she isn't born yet you already love him/her and are so excited for him/her to be born. Then one day your husband came to you and told you that he had secretly snuck some pills on your food that stopped the pregnancy and that he doesn't want the child to be born after all. I think it's almost impossible to even imagine how fucking horrible that would make you feel, it would most likely launch you into deep depression and emotionally damage you for the rest of your life. Well that same exact situation has happened to some guys when their wives have decided to just have abortions because they felt like they weren't ready. So it can definitely severely affect men too.
This is an extremely difficult issue which will never be solved perfectly because the whole situation is not equal to begin with, even tho baby kinda belongs to both of you since you are both responsible for making it, it still in a way only belongs to the woman since she is carrying it and that's why it's impossible to reach equality on this issue.
It's woman's body. Are men going to pay her child support and all stuff her baby needs? If not, men should just STFU. Also, in each case is many things to consider. In each case are different circumstances and very often, men has no medical knowledge to consider all circumstances right.
Men are obligated by law to pay child support, probably because women got to vote on that issue. In theory women also get to vote on health care covverage for prostate cancer or programs to help boys do better in school, so it stands to reason men get to vote on female issues as well.
@JohnDoe3000 I don't know if it's different where you live but in my experience when my parent refused to pay child support to help my mom give me what I need, almost nothing was done. Sure the court gave a few polite nudges. It took a very long time for a bench warrent to be set for his arrest. And in all that time my mom struggled to provide for me. I went without. And to this day my father still never paid his share. I still keep in contact with him now that I'm an adult and he asks me why I never participated in school groups and I've tried explaining to him because I couldn't afford it. Just like we couldn't afford much school supplies each year. He just shrugged, no feeling of responsibility or guilt. So don't talk about legally obligated.
@bang678 In the US alone thousands of men (and some women) are jailed each year for failing to pay child support (or at least the full amount the judge ordered them to pay). It doesn't always happen but it's a very real threat, I'm sure some women who had illegal late-term abortions have also avoided going to jail.
It's inherently a silly premise since the laws are both written and voted upon largely by men, to decide what a woman can or can't do with her fetus lol. So men shouldn't have a vote... until they HAVE TO vote lol.
That aside. It's her body, but it's his dna. He has a right to vote on it.
3.bp.blogspot.com/.../Not%2BYour%2BBody.jpg
The baby has different DNA than the mother, therefore it's not HER body, but a separate living being with it's own body.
media.tumblr.com/tumblr_meh50ynMQz1r04ori.jpg
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...200a0bb9ab.jpg
reclaimourrepublic.files.wordpress.com/.../margaret-sanger-weeds-abortion.jpg
Yes because it's their baby too.
IF they DECIDE together to have a baby it's the man's baby too). Otherwise it's his responsibility for his copulation. Nothing more.
@jacquesvol What do you mean? I'm fluent in English so I don't always understand all.
Basically what he is saying, is if men don't sign paperwork for their rights they will have none.
@Thisperson98 So he's agreeing with me?
No, he is saying only way fathers have rights is if the mothers says they do.
@Thisperson98 That's so stupid
I agree, it is stupid.
@Thisperson98 It's their baby too so I can't understand why they shouldn't have the right to say anything or even vote. Even it's their body they can decide to kill or not to kill someone all alone.
@Alice55 what don't you understand aboutt 'decide toģether and responsibity
Yes and no. A man can't decide over a woman's body but should have the right to show what he prefers.
Women have the last decision in the end. I'm guessing it should be 80% her 20% him. He can't force her to have the baby or abort, and she can't force him to be a father if he doesn't want to... it's difficult!!
You're right, it is difficult. When you say "and she can't force him to be a father if he doesn't want to", do you mean a real father who will help bring up his children, or that he can insist on an abortion? If the child is born, should the biological father be required to support the child financially, even if he didn't want it?
Putting it in the situation that it was an accident (i. e. one night stand), she can't have the child and then claim benefits from him for example. If he wants to be a father, no problem. But if he doesn't want to, then we have the saame problem again. Difficult! To clarify, I meant your second option. Unfortunately some girls make a living out of this!!!
I dunno... Women, as a group, are net financial burdens on society, are 4 times less politically informed and they constantly vote for bigger government that men primarily pay for... So if women can do that then why can't a man vote on abortion?
I voted for "No" because no matter my opinion, I ultimately cannot determine whether or not a woman gets an abortion. And even more so I will not impede someone's freedom either to do this either, this case being her freedom to choose if she gets an abortion or not.
I would say no bc it's not their body. but at the same time if a woman isn't ready or wants the child they can put it up for adoption or have an abortion but a man can't and gets a bill the rest of his life. a man should be able to walk away from responsibility and not be a part of the child's life. that's equal.
the problem starts when the woman demands child maintenance. Yes its your body, but if he doesn't want kids and has voiced his concerns, why is he forced to pay for said child?
Lets say he took every precaution yet the woman still fell pregnant... she wants to keep the child, but he doesn't. What right does she have to force him to look after said child when it was her decision to keep it?
Yes, they should. It's not just about the woman's body, it's about the child too, and the child is both the woman's and the man's.
At the moment of legal abortion there's no baby, no child. Just a pea or bean sized blob of cells without conscience or ability to feel.
Even hypothetically, I don't like your poll choices.. Just practice safe sex people! Seems like a decision that both sides could easily agree on.