If a woman does not want to be pregnant, all she needs to do is exercise control over her reproductive system and not get pregnant. A man has no responsibility if a woman gets pregnant when she did want to. Did he force himself on her?
If not no one forced her to get pregnant.
So what is this "forcing" thing?
0000
Screenwriter
+1 y
There is no 100% control over the reproductive system. Birth control methods FAIL all the time. Some of the best fail because of poor usage. A woman forgets her low dose birth control pill one day and forgets she forgot it and forgets to use backup birth control that day, has sex and becomes pregnant. Human error is the complete and total factor in birth control failure. And this gentleman is against abortion, so he is suggesting that we no longer have it because of his stance about an egg being a person and removing an egg or an embryo or fetus that cannot survive outside the womb is murder. So if abortion is made illegal certain women WOULD be forced to continue pregnancies they did not want to continue. You're too young to recall those bad old days. I know about them. And women risked their lives and reputations getting illegal abortions.
Screenwriter
+1 y
So women were literally being FORCED to continue pregnancies. And back then, there were also very few reliable birth control methods either. There were no birth control pills...
Anonymous
+1 y
I don't completely agree in it for example South Korea have very low fertility rate they need kids and if they don't have enough kids then in future is is possible that North Korea or china will invade. women should also care about their country
0000
Opinion Owner
+1 y
and ethnicity
Opinion Owner
+1 y
Liberal just don't understand consequences of not having enough kids who will pay for their pension social benefit or who will become doctor or scientist or engineer and who will defend their country in case of invasion they're not practical
Opinion Owner
+1 y
but country with high fertility rate like Nigeria where they can't even feed their kids should work on lowering fertility rate or everyone will starve there. they already do so just do what is best for your society
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KneeDragger
+1 y
When the following is said - "but country with high fertility rate like Nigeria where they can't even feed their kids should work on lowering fertility rate or everyone will starve there. they already do so just do what is best for your society" This message is very, very presumptuous because you are telling people what to do, based on only your experiences and opinions. If a couple wants to have children, that is their choice. No one has the right to tell others what to do, unless that action is the killing and/or the taking of the freedoms away from others. No one has the "right" to kill another person, unless that person is directly threatening the life of another human. If someone comes to take my life, the life of my family or an innocent person I have a duty to defend those lives around me. By no means do I want to take another life, but you better not try and take away mine because I will defend myself and innocent lives of my neighbor.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
@KneeDragger okay then what about when their country will get invaded? when their won't be enough people who can pay for your pension not any scientists or engineer so not much development. after invasion women in that country will be raped and people will be killed they will live like slave. and economy and social benifit will collapse without innovation and work force they are harming society especially those countries which can get invaded any time like South Korea. but of course not see what it means in long term
Opinion Owner
+1 y
@KneeDragger in same sense I believe people in countries like Nigeria especially poor Nigerian should not have more than 2 on average at least. and use these resources for developing country so people won't starve. Doing our best is most important for society
Opinion Owner
+1 y
@KneeDragger I mean anyone is not harming by not paying taxes or escaping while country is in war and they were drafted but those things are harmful for society not having kids in a country which need kids is selfish same way having many kids in a country which have over population problem is selfish.
KneeDragger
+1 y
Wow, can you please tell me which stocks to invest in because you can predict the future really well? Wait, maybe not because no one knows the future and you think killing children in the womb is acceptable. Personally, I won't allow that future to exist.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
@KneeDragger okay I am sure that it is better for South Korea to get invaded by china or North Korea and live like slave you are not even from Asia. You won't understand situation and what china is doing America is destroying itself and world War 3 will happen in 30 40s or 50s. you can't be calm when china and North Korea are your neighbour.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
@KneeDragger do you know how scared I am? I don't want to get raped or become slave or don't get social benifit or live in bad economy and these things can happen after invasion and economy collapsing
Opinion Owner
+1 y
@KneeDragger I don't follow wall Street etc sorry everyone is not American
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Opinion Owner - "in same sense I believe people in countries like Nigeria especially poor Nigerian should not have more than 2 on average at least. and use these resources for developing country so people won't starve. Doing our best is most important for society" Have you been to Nigeria because you sure do like to use them as an example. How about Chile? Have you ever seen a family grow-up in the dump? I have been to Chile and if you go to Santiago that is what you will see, and they are a first-world country. But please go to Chile and you can then determine someones lack of human dignity because they are poor and they are created in those environments. Humans are blessed with unique and special characteristics that define how special they are, those traits are never defined by their location.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
@KneeDragger also why I think abortion in country with high Fertility is okay ever have visited Africa? do you know how many people don't properly eat or get educated there? For example if one couple can only afford one kid but still end up having 9 kids they can't afford do you know what will happen? They will starve don't get proper education. Not getting born is better than living that life. abortion is not bad in that case
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Opinion Owner - "I mean anyone is not harming by not paying taxes or escaping while country is in war and they were drafted but those things are harmful for society not having kids in a country which need kids is selfish same way having many kids in a country which have over population problem is selfish." Please explain why you know so much about the problems of others, in addition on how to solve these "problems?"
Opinion Owner
+1 y
@KneeDragger because I am scared and paranoid about future. just observing society and know what is gonna happen in future .
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Opinion Owner - "okay I am sure that it is better for South Korea to get invaded by china or North Korea and live like slave you are not even from Asia. You won't understand situation and what china is doing America is destroying itself and world War 3 will happen in 30 40s or 50s. you can't be calm when china and North Korea are your neighbour." There is nothing I can do about the world, other than influence those in my world; the ones I can change. Wars happen because of selfish behaviors, i. e. Satan. Worry about stopping him because that is something you can change and influence.
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Opinion Owner - "do you know how scared I am? I don't want to get raped or become slave or don't get social benifit or live in bad economy and these things can happen after invasion and economy collapsing" The only thing I can change is the person I look at in the mirror. The possibility of World War III scares me too. But if you look at the world since the legalization of abortion in America (1973) you will see that as each country accepted abortion, they continued to devolve and begin collapsing. Abortion is the destruction and slaughter of an innocent child. No person can call themselves "a moral and upright human being" when that person advocates for the eradication of someone else who has done nothing other than exist.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
@KneeDragger I don't believe in morals I just consider myself practical
Opinion Owner
+1 y
@KneeDragger I just don't see how starving and not getting proper education is better than not getting born
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Opinion Owner - "also why I think abortion in country with high Fertility is okay ever have visited Africa? do you know how many people don't properly eat or get educated there? For example if one couple can only afford one kid but still end up having 9 kids they can't afford do you know what will happen? They will starve don't get proper education. Not getting born is better than living that life. abortion is not bad in that case" A close friend of mine, his son went to Africa to help after he graduated college. He met a native from Africa and they are now married. However they can't have biological children because of the brutal rapes she experienced by the Muslim hordes when she was a young lady. Now as horribly awful her experiences were, are you suggesting she shouldn't exist because she was a child born twenty years ago in Africa? My friends son loves his wife, she loves him and I promise she would rather be alive than be aborted.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
@KneeDragger she won't have suffer rape and poverty if she was not born in Africa. i don't think I can live that kind of life and there are some rich and middle class even in Africa.
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Opinion Owner - "I don't believe in morals I just consider myself practical" Wether you believe in morals or not doesn't change the fact you still have morals, even if they were only "practical," they will always be morals. Or maybe you just need to develop those morals more. By the way, that is not intended as an attack in anyway; we are just limited to this medium.
KneeDragger
+1 y
@opinion owner - "she won't have suffer rape and poverty if she was not born in Africa. i don't think I can live that kind of life and there are some rich and middle class even in Africa." Why is it you get to decide who lives and who dies? Who gave you the right to determine what another persons life is worth living? You sure do speak of a very entitled position if you can tell another human, who is happy, they had a bad experience in life and therefore they should not exist. Please, please reflect on your position before you actually tell that to another person's face.
Screenwriter
+1 y
@KneeDragger if you look at the world since the legalization of abortion... you will see that as each country accepted abortion, they continued to devolve and begin collapsing. Abortion is the destruction and slaughter of an innocent CHILD.. No person can call themselves "a moral and upright human being" when that person advocates for the eradication of someone else who has done nothing other than exist." If the existence of a POTENTIAL child threatens the existence of children already here, or a person's ability to take care of themselves and others already living then abortion IS rational AND moral. Abortion has nothing to do with any country "devolving and collapsing." You want to blame the Trump era on abortion? Talk about devolving and collapsing. You want to blame white supremacy on abortion? You want to blame racism on abortion? None of these societal problems have anything to do with abortioni!! We have to agree to disagree because your argument is neither logical or rational. Regards anyway.
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Screenwriter – There is no potential human life when they are unborn. The unborn are just that, an unborn human life. The word “unborn” is being used as an adjective, to describe the noun. The unborn possess the same traits as they will the remainder of their lives, except their size, level of awareness, environment and their degree of dependency. Those four traits are the ONLY traits that change when comparing the unborn and us, and they will always continue to change for the remainder of our lives. Abortion has always been about taking the life of an innocent child who is doing nothing other than existing and being undesirable. Please inform me the justification to kill a born child versus the unborn. Then you talk about my position where a country devolves and collapses after accepting abortion, yet you never provide any evidence to refute my claim yet support your position. You just want to kill babies and have the government fund the action. You have yet to prove anything, not a single thing, that is at least regarding why abortion should be allowed.
OddBeMe
+1 y
@KneeDragger What about masturbation? That's millions of potential lifeforms going into your sock every night.
Screenwriter
+1 y
@KneeDragger The only justification is the needs of the woman needing the abortion and her family and economic situation. Abortion is a form of birth control that is a last ditch method. Just as the morning after pill is an abortifacent. It eliminates a fertilized egg. And birth control pills either prevent the release of an egg or prevent the implantation of fertilized eggs. So those forms of birth control are sometimes abortifacents. The only barrier methods are condoms and spermicides. However, BOTH are unreliable: in common use: 20 to 30 percent failure is common because of improper use and timing of sex. Humans make human errors.
Screenwriter
+1 y
The oocyte, zygote, embryo or fetus have all the genetic information to become a human child. But there is no oocyte, zygote or embryo that can live outside a woman's uterus. Abortion is a drastic, ugly medical procedure. If I had had one, I'd be sad to have had it done. It's only right or wrong for the woman in question. Unless YOU want to personally care for all the children who'll be born and live for the 18 years after birth of ALL the women who won't have access to abortions, who don't choose to be mothers, who accidentally get pregnant at the wrong time, don't bring up this moral/religious argument about the life, the killing of a human. If they were meant to be, they would not be aborted by the women in question. It is about the WOMAN's choice. not yours. HER morality, not yours. This is an individual decision SHE will have to live with NOT YOU. I was lucky. My birth control did not fail and I had the child I wanted when I was ready. If it had happened otherwise, I would have had an abortion. It is not something 99 percent of women do lightly. It would not be something I would've done lightly. Who are you saving this child for? Yourself? Why push your morals on someone you do not know? Who you do not know the circumstances of? Who YOU will NOT HELP through her pregnancy and through the next 18 years of her child's life? Will you marry her and support her child?
Screenwriter
+1 y
And it's NOT only about 18 years either. Your child is yours from their cradle to YOUR GRAVE. That is a giant responsibility. That is why women choose abortions. It's why I would've. Your solution is to not have sex. Well that is simply not going to happen with people. I'm a practical person. All we can do is have sex education in schools for children before puberty. I got it at the Catholic school I attended. By the time I was at puberty, I knew I was going to choose to use birth control when I finally had sex. A large minority of children get NO sex education and use NO birth control and these accidents happen when no one is prepared emotionally, financially or educationally to have a child. Children are blessings when they come at the right time. When there's a couple ready to raise that child. When people are excited and ready to share their love and care; when they have decent jobs and homes and the time and energy to devote to rearing a child. The BIG PICTURE has to be considered, not just the small oocyte. When the day comes that every fertilized egg can be given to people who want a child but can't have one, and can be grown in an aquarium, there might be no need for abortion. That day is not here and won't be here until sometime past 2100, is my best guess.
KneeDragger
+1 y
@oddbeme - "What about masturbation? That's millions of potential lifeforms going into your sock every night." How many chromosomes in each sperm cell? 23; so NOT "millions of potential lifeforms." Didn't you have basic biology in high school?
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Screenwriter – The family and economic situations will always change, especially over a nine-month period. Are you suggesting a mother and/or father can justifiably kill a born child because their family or economic situation takes a turn for the worse? For the umpteenth time I’ll repeat myself; the ONLY difference between you, I and the unborn are - size, level of awareness, environment, and degree of dependency. Those four traits describe the differences between you and myself but also the differences between us and the unborn. Obviously, you, myself and the unborn are all different people and I am referring to the humanity that we all share. Prove to me the unborn are NOT human and I’ll spend the rest of my life arguing the case for abortion. If you cannot prove the unborn lack the traits of humanity, you can never justify the killing of an innocent person. History is rife with examples of when killing innocent people is wrong.
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Screenwriter - This apparently needs to posts for my reply. Your list from the oocyte to the fetus are just some of the stages of human development. The DNA of the human never changes. You accurately describe abortion, yet you support the act? The reason why I hate and argue against abortion is because I am defending the unborn. If you lived in a neighborhood and someone was going through the area and killing people at random; would you sit by and just wait for them to come through your front door? Would you even try stop them? If I lived in a situation like that, I would do everything in my power to stop that person for all the wrong they are committing. The only major difference with my example and the unborn, the unborn can’t defend themselves and their screams aren’t heard. Why should I be responsible for the actions of others? Sure, I help my friends and neighbors but I’m not going to be culpable for another person’s immaturity; I am taking care of my family and you want me to raise other people’s children too? Do you realize how preposterous that would get, let alone how nonsensical the idea is?
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Screenwriter - Again, you bring morality to the table, but you need to complete the thought. If another country attacks America, should we just sit back and say “Well, it was their choice, and I don’t think we should object others to our morality.” Take it to the local level, or even the family level. Are you saying we should never have objected to the atrocities committed by Germany in World War II? Afterall, it was the Germans who killed millions of people all in the name of purifying the human race. Or we can take it to our country’s history and slavery. Apply your thinking to other times of history and simply apply the same logic. Does any part of history change for the better? The body of a woman still releases an egg almost every month, even if she is on birth-control. If a sperm cell is present and fertilizes the egg, birth-control simply stops the ovum from attaching to the uterine wall, from ten days to two weeks after fertilization. The moment a sperm cell enters the egg, a new person is formed. Again, this is simple high school biology. Your last paragraph is addressed in my responses above. As a human person, I care about all people. As for marrying another lady, sorry, I am already happily married and have been for nearly a decade. And you know what, being married has strengthened my position in defending all human life.
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Screenwriter - Your “cradle to YOUR GRAVE” is funny. Sure, I raised my kids and taught them to have morals but as they become adults, I am not responsible for their actions. So, if my child is thirty and kills a family because of a DUI, I’m somehow responsible? Um, OK, if you say so. Sure, the choice to drive drunk was immature and dumb, but they made their own choice. Am I wrong? Please tell your future wife after you get married that you cannot control yourself and you are going to have sex with whomever you can/want because sex is something that is going to happen. You’re not responsible, because after all you are practical. Want to know when most abortions happen? When kids are taught “safe sex.” If a government/country teaches abstinence only there are some teen pregnancies, but they don’t come close to comparing to abstinence only. You know why? Because ALL birth-control fails, without exception. Catholic schools failed in many, many areas; birth-control is just one area. I’ll gladly wager ten-thousand dollars you are NOT a practicing Catholic now who follows the teaching of the Faith. Want to take the bet? All children are blessings, no matter the time, place or anything. All children are creatures of GOD, created in His likeness and image. Your lack to see and understand that is why I don’t use religion to defend the unborn, all I need is logic, science and/or reason. Your “aquarium” argument is childish and hilarious. Teach people to be responsible and every part of life gets better in the future. Even Justice Black who wrote the majority argument for Planned Parenthood v. Casey in the nineties said that abortion must remain legal for when abortion fails. Seriously, do you understand how backwards and wrong that thinking is?
OddBeMe
+1 y
@KneeDragger So chromosomes are what you consider life? Your lack of logic is showing
KneeDragger
+1 y
@oddbeme - 46 chromosomes, they all determine the traits of human life. It is nothing more than high school level biology. If you can pass the science class and still support abortion, by definition you are willfully. ignorant. If you don't understand the biology, you need to be a sophomore in high school when you take the science class; but please pay attention.
OddBeMe
+1 y
@KneeDragger semen has ole factory senses
KneeDragger
+1 y
@oddbeme - This is something I'll take your word on, however, this is something I have never heard. However it would make some sense because it could help the little dudes find the egg. However, what is your point that semen can smell? Are you trying to say that because semen have a form of smell, you think they are alive? Please help me, I'm not understanding your point.
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Screenwriter – My apologies for missing this post “The only justification. . . . human errors.” But I’ll reply now ; ) The justification for killing any human needs to be met before you are guilt free when you kill another person. The only justification, the ONLY JUSTIFICATION in killing another person is when they are going to directly kill another innocent person. If someone breaks into my house at night and threatens to kill me and/or my family, I’m going to regretfully kill that person, but I’m justified. I can’t kill another person unless they are threatening to kill another innocent person or myself. A mother who partakes in the activity of sex can never justify the death of her child, just because she doesn’t want the child at that specific time. All birth-control is abortifacient, ALL of them work by mimicking pregnancy, except the barriers. If a woman doesn’t want to get pregnant, no one is forcing her to have sex. If she and a dude decide to have sex, why shouldn’t they be held to the same standards as any other adult in any other situation? Even the Justice who wrote the majority opinion in Casey v Planned Parenthood said that abortion must remain legal for when birth-control fails. Take away birth-control and I promise most people won’t support abortion. Here is an even better idea! Use whatever search engine you would like and watch a surgical abortion of an eight-week-old baby. Please let me know your thoughts.
OddBeMe
+1 y
@KneeDragger The point is when is a fetus a person? Pregnancy is like the hour hand of a clock. A person is not instantly created when a sperm tail wiggles it’s way into an egg.
Screenwriter
+1 y
A human is created. But not a person. That takes quite a few months more. But... the issue is, if it's human, no matter how tiny it is, even a fertilized egg, it's murder. We've killed it. And again, sex is a normal, natural part of life. No one should be punished for having sex if their birth control fails. I wanted the son I had and planned him. I don't think I'd have wanted any other child before him. I wasn't ready. I was married too. But I wasn't ready. He's the son I'm glad I had. And it wasn't easy raising him as I was divorced a few years after his birth. We are not incubators simply because we become pregnant. There has to be choice in the matter, no matter what you want to deem an abortion. NO ONE LIKES ABORTION! We all know it's ending a potential life. That's why people use other birth control that doesn't end in abortion. But it has to be an option for those whose circumstances lead them to choose it. YOU DON'T CHOOSE IT. That is fine. Leave it at that. But don't try to force other people to adhere to your morals. There are reasons they cannot. You don't accept that. Fine. But don't force your morality on others. That's the ONLY point. You cannot choose for others. Safe birth control, even to the point of abortion, should be a right.
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Screenwriter - "A human is created. . . . should be a right" A human person is the same thing as a human or a person; those are just names or stages of the human life cycle, completely defined as the synonymous. Look the definitions up if you don’t believe me. You admit that if the fetus is human, then abortion is wrong. When a human couple has a child after sex, what else can it be, other than human? Again, the unborn are whole complete human beings from the moment of conception. Those characteristics never change! The four traits that do change are the size of the baby, her level of awareness, the environment and her degree of dependency changes as she grows up. Understanding the defining noun and characteristics is key. If you disagree you can define the terms you need to justify abortion, but you cannot switch words around to mean something else entirely. Pregnancy is hard, I agree with you one hundred percent! However, my wife and I can have sexual relations whenever we want except when she has her period because that is pretty gross as the lining in endometrium of the uterus is sluffed off; then there are four days where we need to pay attention to the natural signs of her body. If we want to have a child, green light. We can even determine what sex the child will be. Or we can hold off if we want to wait before we bring our next child into this world. Looks like I need two posts again.
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Screenwriter - All birth-control fails and according to Justice Kennedy (a Catholic by the way) who wrote the majority opinion of Casey v Planned Parenthood said that abortion must remain legal for when birth-control fails. Going back to 1973, Justice Blackburn wrote that if the unborn are ever proven to be human, the case (Roe v Wade) falls apart and abortion must be rejected because of the fourteenth Amendment. Do you see the hypocrisy in the Courts? You talk about “[t]here has to be choice in the matter” and there already is. No one is forcing a woman to have sex! If you argue for abortions in the case or rape/incest then you need to be honest because abortions from rape account for a quarter of a quarter of a percent and that is from when numbers were last accurately available. So arguing for abortion in the case of incest is not honest, you would be just appealing to emotion. Life decisions should not be based on emotions alone because emotions change so easily. Again, my problem with abortion is the slaughter of an innocent child. I make the choice to NOT allow other people to destroy other people. And by the way, abortions, even when legal are never safe for the baby and there is always a large risk to the mother.
Screenwriter
+1 y
@KneeDragger And this is my point precisely Mr. Dragger. Unless all of those aborted babies have vetted homes waiting for them and lifetime support.. stop.
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Screenwriter - Can you predict the future? No one can and the inability to predict the future as a justification to abort a child is just beyond weak. How many people right now starve to death and are homeless in this country? Please provide evidence that all of those people died because they came from families that didn't want them and/or couldn't afford to raise them? Does that sound ridiculous to you? I hope you understand our country allows you to grow up and move up in the different classes of America if you are willing to work, based on nothing else. Do you need me to provide you with examples?
Screenwriter
+1 y
@KneeDragger Of course, no one can predict the future. But future performance is based on past circumstances. A woman chooses a path based on her past circumstances. If they are precarious, she will likely choose what appears safest for her at THAT TIME. This has nothing to do with people who are doing well today and came from poor circumstances or those who came from great circumstances and are doing poorly today. This is SOLELY about how the woman sees her life at the time she chooses to continue with her pregnancy or discontinue. That is it. All these what ifs cloud the simple issue of choosing for right now.
Screenwriter
+1 y
Women need to have that option. As you said, you, nor the millions of others against abortion, will be there for those women and their children. So, based on those facts, she is all alone in this decision, this weighing her work situation, her economic situation and her family situation, if she has other children to provide for. If we had a culture that did support women through their pregnancies and provided child care and early childhood education and support throughout the years 1-19 in ALL circumstances, I'm sure very few women would want or need abortions. We have no such support. We don't value women's lives or their needs OR CHILDREN'S LIVES OR NEEDS!!! That is the problem. Until that is completely turned around, abortion will be a necessity. I have nothing else to say. And thank you for your thoughts on the matter. You are a caring person. I see that. However, we come from different perspectives. As a man you cannot feel the THREAT of being pregnant when you don't want to be, the threat of having your body as an enemy. You will NEVER be pregnant or have to face raising a child you don't want for WHATEVER reason. That is where the rubber hits the road. Birth control fails. A CHILD should never be a punishment for having sex. And that is what a child would be. You think that would scare people off of having sex? It NEVER HAS and it never will. Regards to you.
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Screenwriter - So a woman cannot predict the future just like a man. A child doesn't deserve to die because the circumstances aren't perfect in the opinions of the parents. A natural consequence shouldn't exist?
KneeDragger
+1 y
@Screenwriter - Why should sex be different than any other activity in life, where it would bee consequence free?
KneeDragger
+1 y
Anyone notice how twenty-four guys have an opinion on this with only four ladies? I'll wager a thousand dollars the majority of guys who support a lady having access to abortion, they just want to be able to have sex with women and have a backup for when the "birth-control" fails? Hell, I'll up it to twenty-thousand dollars!
Anonymous
+1 y
Ofc, nobody should be forced to have sex. Once you have sex and get pregnant that is your problem. in my opinion if its within the first month its pretty humane but otherwise abortion is fucked up
0000
OddBeMe
+1 y
Consenting to sex isn’t consenting to pregnancy.
Opinion Owner
+1 y
Yes it is you dumb fucking shithead, I’m not gunna waste my time explaining to you how babies are made
KneeDragger
+1 y
Consenting to sex IS consenting to the consequences of the action, the action of sex.
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OddBeMe
+1 y
Consenting to driving isn’t consenting to a wreck.
KneeDragger
+1 y
@oddbeme - "Consenting to driving isn’t consenting to a wreck." Please explain this to me. If you are on the road, you might get in a wreck; even if it's NOT your fault. You still wrecked.
Anonymous
+1 y
Can we go a day without an abortion question?
0100
OddBeMe
+1 y
Can I go a day without some Anon fuck crashing a party he wasn’t invited to?
KneeDragger
+1 y
I'll stop the abortion debate when people have an honest discussion about abortion and the action is made illegal again.
Sexual Relationships 
Sexual Health 
What Girls & Guys Said
4 24Who is being forced to be pregnant?
Women choose to become pregnant.
If a woman does not want to be pregnant, all she needs to do is exercise control over her reproductive system and not get pregnant. A man has no responsibility if a woman gets pregnant when she did want to. Did he force himself on her?
If not no one forced her to get pregnant.
So what is this "forcing" thing?
There is no 100% control over the reproductive system. Birth control methods FAIL all the time. Some of the best fail because of poor usage. A woman forgets her low dose birth control pill one day and forgets she forgot it and forgets to use backup birth control that day, has sex and becomes pregnant. Human error is the complete and total factor in birth control failure. And this gentleman is against abortion, so he is suggesting that we no longer have it because of his stance about an egg being a person and removing an egg or an embryo or fetus that cannot survive outside the womb is murder. So if abortion is made illegal certain women WOULD be forced to continue pregnancies they did not want to continue. You're too young to recall those bad old days. I know about them. And women risked their lives and reputations getting illegal abortions.
So women were literally being FORCED to continue pregnancies. And back then, there were also very few reliable birth control methods either. There were no birth control pills...
I don't completely agree in it for example South Korea have very low fertility rate they need kids and if they don't have enough kids then in future is is possible that North Korea or china will invade. women should also care about their country
and ethnicity
Liberal just don't understand consequences of not having enough kids who will pay for their pension social benefit or who will become doctor or scientist or engineer and who will defend their country in case of invasion they're not practical
but country with high fertility rate like Nigeria where they can't even feed their kids should work on lowering fertility rate or everyone will starve there. they already do so just do what is best for your society
When the following is said - "but country with high fertility rate like Nigeria where they can't even feed their kids should work on lowering fertility rate or everyone will starve there. they already do so just do what is best for your society" This message is very, very presumptuous because you are telling people what to do, based on only your experiences and opinions. If a couple wants to have children, that is their choice. No one has the right to tell others what to do, unless that action is the killing and/or the taking of the freedoms away from others. No one has the "right" to kill another person, unless that person is directly threatening the life of another human. If someone comes to take my life, the life of my family or an innocent person I have a duty to defend those lives around me. By no means do I want to take another life, but you better not try and take away mine because I will defend myself and innocent lives of my neighbor.
@KneeDragger okay then what about when their country will get invaded? when their won't be enough people who can pay for your pension not any scientists or engineer so not much development. after invasion women in that country will be raped and people will be killed they will live like slave. and economy and social benifit will collapse without innovation and work force they are harming society especially those countries which can get invaded any time like South Korea. but of course not see what it means in long term
@KneeDragger in same sense I believe people in countries like Nigeria especially poor Nigerian should not have more than 2 on average at least. and use these resources for developing country so people won't starve. Doing our best is most important for society
@KneeDragger I mean anyone is not harming by not paying taxes or escaping while country is in war and they were drafted but those things are harmful for society not having kids in a country which need kids is selfish same way having many kids in a country which have over population problem is selfish.
Wow, can you please tell me which stocks to invest in because you can predict the future really well? Wait, maybe not because no one knows the future and you think killing children in the womb is acceptable. Personally, I won't allow that future to exist.
@KneeDragger okay I am sure that it is better for South Korea to get invaded by china or North Korea and live like slave you are not even from Asia. You won't understand situation and what china is doing America is destroying itself and world War 3 will happen in 30 40s or 50s. you can't be calm when china and North Korea are your neighbour.
@KneeDragger do you know how scared I am? I don't want to get raped or become slave or don't get social benifit or live in bad economy and these things can happen after invasion and economy collapsing
@KneeDragger I don't follow wall Street etc sorry everyone is not American
@Opinion Owner - "in same sense I believe people in countries like Nigeria especially poor Nigerian should not have more than 2 on average at least. and use these resources for developing country so people won't starve. Doing our best is most important for society" Have you been to Nigeria because you sure do like to use them as an example. How about Chile? Have you ever seen a family grow-up in the dump? I have been to Chile and if you go to Santiago that is what you will see, and they are a first-world country. But please go to Chile and you can then determine someones lack of human dignity because they are poor and they are created in those environments. Humans are blessed with unique and special characteristics that define how special they are, those traits are never defined by their location.
@KneeDragger also why I think abortion in country with high Fertility is okay ever have visited Africa? do you know how many people don't properly eat or get educated there? For example if one couple can only afford one kid but still end up having 9 kids they can't afford do you know what will happen? They will starve don't get proper education. Not getting born is better than living that life. abortion is not bad in that case
@Opinion Owner - "I mean anyone is not harming by not paying taxes or escaping while country is in war and they were drafted but those things are harmful for society not having kids in a country which need kids is selfish same way having many kids in a country which have over population problem is selfish." Please explain why you know so much about the problems of others, in addition on how to solve these "problems?"
@KneeDragger because I am scared and paranoid about future. just observing society and know what is gonna happen in future .
@Opinion Owner - "okay I am sure that it is better for South Korea to get invaded by china or North Korea and live like slave you are not even from Asia. You won't understand situation and what china is doing America is destroying itself and world War 3 will happen in 30 40s or 50s. you can't be calm when china and North Korea are your neighbour." There is nothing I can do about the world, other than influence those in my world; the ones I can change. Wars happen because of selfish behaviors, i. e. Satan. Worry about stopping him because that is something you can change and influence.
@Opinion Owner - "do you know how scared I am? I don't want to get raped or become slave or don't get social benifit or live in bad economy and these things can happen after invasion and economy collapsing" The only thing I can change is the person I look at in the mirror. The possibility of World War III scares me too. But if you look at the world since the legalization of abortion in America (1973) you will see that as each country accepted abortion, they continued to devolve and begin collapsing. Abortion is the destruction and slaughter of an innocent child. No person can call themselves "a moral and upright human being" when that person advocates for the eradication of someone else who has done nothing other than exist.
@KneeDragger I don't believe in morals I just consider myself practical
@KneeDragger I just don't see how starving and not getting proper education is better than not getting born
@Opinion Owner - "also why I think abortion in country with high Fertility is okay ever have visited Africa? do you know how many people don't properly eat or get educated there? For example if one couple can only afford one kid but still end up having 9 kids they can't afford do you know what will happen? They will starve don't get proper education. Not getting born is better than living that life. abortion is not bad in that case" A close friend of mine, his son went to Africa to help after he graduated college. He met a native from Africa and they are now married. However they can't have biological children because of the brutal rapes she experienced by the Muslim hordes when she was a young lady. Now as horribly awful her experiences were, are you suggesting she shouldn't exist because she was a child born twenty years ago in Africa? My friends son loves his wife, she loves him and I promise she would rather be alive than be aborted.
@KneeDragger she won't have suffer rape and poverty if she was not born in Africa. i don't think I can live that kind of life and there are some rich and middle class even in Africa.
@Opinion Owner - "I don't believe in morals I just consider myself practical" Wether you believe in morals or not doesn't change the fact you still have morals, even if they were only "practical," they will always be morals. Or maybe you just need to develop those morals more. By the way, that is not intended as an attack in anyway; we are just limited to this medium.
@opinion owner - "she won't have suffer rape and poverty if she was not born in Africa. i don't think I can live that kind of life and there are some rich and middle class even in Africa." Why is it you get to decide who lives and who dies? Who gave you the right to determine what another persons life is worth living? You sure do speak of a very entitled position if you can tell another human, who is happy, they had a bad experience in life and therefore they should not exist. Please, please reflect on your position before you actually tell that to another person's face.
@KneeDragger if you look at the world since the legalization of abortion... you will see that as each country accepted abortion, they continued to devolve and begin collapsing. Abortion is the destruction and slaughter of an innocent CHILD.. No person can call themselves "a moral and upright human being" when that person advocates for the eradication of someone else who has done nothing other than exist." If the existence of a POTENTIAL child threatens the existence of children already here, or a person's ability to take care of themselves and others already living then abortion IS rational AND moral. Abortion has nothing to do with any country "devolving and collapsing." You want to blame the Trump era on abortion? Talk about devolving and collapsing. You want to blame white supremacy on abortion? You want to blame racism on abortion? None of these societal problems have anything to do with abortioni!! We have to agree to disagree because your argument is neither logical or rational. Regards anyway.
@Screenwriter – There is no potential human life when they are unborn. The unborn are just that, an unborn human life. The word “unborn” is being used as an adjective, to describe the noun. The unborn possess the same traits as they will the remainder of their lives, except their size, level of awareness, environment and their degree of dependency. Those four traits are the ONLY traits that change when comparing the unborn and us, and they will always continue to change for the remainder of our lives. Abortion has always been about taking the life of an innocent child who is doing nothing other than existing and being undesirable. Please inform me the justification to kill a born child versus the unborn. Then you talk about my position where a country devolves and collapses after accepting abortion, yet you never provide any evidence to refute my claim yet support your position. You just want to kill babies and have the government fund the action. You have yet to prove anything, not a single thing, that is at least regarding why abortion should be allowed.
@KneeDragger What about masturbation? That's millions of potential lifeforms going into your sock every night.
@KneeDragger The only justification is the needs of the woman needing the abortion and her family and economic situation. Abortion is a form of birth control that is a last ditch method. Just as the morning after pill is an abortifacent. It eliminates a fertilized egg. And birth control pills either prevent the release of an egg or prevent the implantation of fertilized eggs. So those forms of birth control are sometimes abortifacents. The only barrier methods are condoms and spermicides. However, BOTH are unreliable: in common use: 20 to 30 percent failure is common because of improper use and timing of sex. Humans make human errors.
The oocyte, zygote, embryo or fetus have all the genetic information to become a human child. But there is no oocyte, zygote or embryo that can live outside a woman's uterus. Abortion is a drastic, ugly medical procedure. If I had had one, I'd be sad to have had it done. It's only right or wrong for the woman in question. Unless YOU want to personally care for all the children who'll be born and live for the 18 years after birth of ALL the women who won't have access to abortions, who don't choose to be mothers, who accidentally get pregnant at the wrong time, don't bring up this moral/religious argument about the life, the killing of a human. If they were meant to be, they would not be aborted by the women in question. It is about the WOMAN's choice. not yours. HER morality, not yours. This is an individual decision SHE will have to live with NOT YOU. I was lucky. My birth control did not fail and I had the child I wanted when I was ready. If it had happened otherwise, I would have had an abortion. It is not something 99 percent of women do lightly. It would not be something I would've done lightly. Who are you saving this child for? Yourself? Why push your morals on someone you do not know? Who you do not know the circumstances of? Who YOU will NOT HELP through her pregnancy and through the next 18 years of her child's life? Will you marry her and support her child?
And it's NOT only about 18 years either. Your child is yours from their cradle to YOUR GRAVE. That is a giant responsibility. That is why women choose abortions. It's why I would've. Your solution is to not have sex. Well that is simply not going to happen with people. I'm a practical person. All we can do is have sex education in schools for children before puberty. I got it at the Catholic school I attended. By the time I was at puberty, I knew I was going to choose to use birth control when I finally had sex. A large minority of children get NO sex education and use NO birth control and these accidents happen when no one is prepared emotionally, financially or educationally to have a child. Children are blessings when they come at the right time. When there's a couple ready to raise that child. When people are excited and ready to share their love and care; when they have decent jobs and homes and the time and energy to devote to rearing a child. The BIG PICTURE has to be considered, not just the small oocyte. When the day comes that every fertilized egg can be given to people who want a child but can't have one, and can be grown in an aquarium, there might be no need for abortion. That day is not here and won't be here until sometime past 2100, is my best guess.
@oddbeme - "What about masturbation? That's millions of potential lifeforms going into your sock every night." How many chromosomes in each sperm cell? 23; so NOT "millions of potential lifeforms." Didn't you have basic biology in high school?
@Screenwriter – The family and economic situations will always change, especially over a nine-month period. Are you suggesting a mother and/or father can justifiably kill a born child because their family or economic situation takes a turn for the worse? For the umpteenth time I’ll repeat myself; the ONLY difference between you, I and the unborn are - size, level of awareness, environment, and degree of dependency. Those four traits describe the differences between you and myself but also the differences between us and the unborn. Obviously, you, myself and the unborn are all different people and I am referring to the humanity that we all share. Prove to me the unborn are NOT human and I’ll spend the rest of my life arguing the case for abortion. If you cannot prove the unborn lack the traits of humanity, you can never justify the killing of an innocent person. History is rife with examples of when killing innocent people is wrong.
@Screenwriter - This apparently needs to posts for my reply. Your list from the oocyte to the fetus are just some of the stages of human development. The DNA of the human never changes. You accurately describe abortion, yet you support the act? The reason why I hate and argue against abortion is because I am defending the unborn. If you lived in a neighborhood and someone was going through the area and killing people at random; would you sit by and just wait for them to come through your front door? Would you even try stop them? If I lived in a situation like that, I would do everything in my power to stop that person for all the wrong they are committing. The only major difference with my example and the unborn, the unborn can’t defend themselves and their screams aren’t heard. Why should I be responsible for the actions of others? Sure, I help my friends and neighbors but I’m not going to be culpable for another person’s immaturity; I am taking care of my family and you want me to raise other people’s children too? Do you realize how preposterous that would get, let alone how nonsensical the idea is?
@Screenwriter - Again, you bring morality to the table, but you need to complete the thought. If another country attacks America, should we just sit back and say “Well, it was their choice, and I don’t think we should object others to our morality.” Take it to the local level, or even the family level. Are you saying we should never have objected to the atrocities committed by Germany in World War II? Afterall, it was the Germans who killed millions of people all in the name of purifying the human race. Or we can take it to our country’s history and slavery. Apply your thinking to other times of history and simply apply the same logic. Does any part of history change for the better? The body of a woman still releases an egg almost every month, even if she is on birth-control. If a sperm cell is present and fertilizes the egg, birth-control simply stops the ovum from attaching to the uterine wall, from ten days to two weeks after fertilization. The moment a sperm cell enters the egg, a new person is formed. Again, this is simple high school biology. Your last paragraph is addressed in my responses above. As a human person, I care about all people. As for marrying another lady, sorry, I am already happily married and have been for nearly a decade. And you know what, being married has strengthened my position in defending all human life.
@Screenwriter - Your “cradle to YOUR GRAVE” is funny. Sure, I raised my kids and taught them to have morals but as they become adults, I am not responsible for their actions. So, if my child is thirty and kills a family because of a DUI, I’m somehow responsible? Um, OK, if you say so. Sure, the choice to drive drunk was immature and dumb, but they made their own choice. Am I wrong? Please tell your future wife after you get married that you cannot control yourself and you are going to have sex with whomever you can/want because sex is something that is going to happen. You’re not responsible, because after all you are practical. Want to know when most abortions happen? When kids are taught “safe sex.” If a government/country teaches abstinence only there are some teen pregnancies, but they don’t come close to comparing to abstinence only. You know why? Because ALL birth-control fails, without exception. Catholic schools failed in many, many areas; birth-control is just one area. I’ll gladly wager ten-thousand dollars you are NOT a practicing Catholic now who follows the teaching of the Faith. Want to take the bet? All children are blessings, no matter the time, place or anything. All children are creatures of GOD, created in His likeness and image. Your lack to see and understand that is why I don’t use religion to defend the unborn, all I need is logic, science and/or reason. Your “aquarium” argument is childish and hilarious. Teach people to be responsible and every part of life gets better in the future. Even Justice Black who wrote the majority argument for Planned Parenthood v. Casey in the nineties said that abortion must remain legal for when abortion fails. Seriously, do you understand how backwards and wrong that thinking is?
@KneeDragger So chromosomes are what you consider life? Your lack of logic is showing
@oddbeme - 46 chromosomes, they all determine the traits of human life. It is nothing more than high school level biology. If you can pass the science class and still support abortion, by definition you are willfully. ignorant. If you don't understand the biology, you need to be a sophomore in high school when you take the science class; but please pay attention.
@KneeDragger semen has ole factory senses
@oddbeme - This is something I'll take your word on, however, this is something I have never heard. However it would make some sense because it could help the little dudes find the egg. However, what is your point that semen can smell? Are you trying to say that because semen have a form of smell, you think they are alive? Please help me, I'm not understanding your point.
@Screenwriter – My apologies for missing this post “The only justification. . . . human errors.” But I’ll reply now ; ) The justification for killing any human needs to be met before you are guilt free when you kill another person. The only justification, the ONLY JUSTIFICATION in killing another person is when they are going to directly kill another innocent person. If someone breaks into my house at night and threatens to kill me and/or my family, I’m going to regretfully kill that person, but I’m justified. I can’t kill another person unless they are threatening to kill another innocent person or myself. A mother who partakes in the activity of sex can never justify the death of her child, just because she doesn’t want the child at that specific time. All birth-control is abortifacient, ALL of them work by mimicking pregnancy, except the barriers. If a woman doesn’t want to get pregnant, no one is forcing her to have sex. If she and a dude decide to have sex, why shouldn’t they be held to the same standards as any other adult in any other situation? Even the Justice who wrote the majority opinion in Casey v Planned Parenthood said that abortion must remain legal for when birth-control fails. Take away birth-control and I promise most people won’t support abortion. Here is an even better idea! Use whatever search engine you would like and watch a surgical abortion of an eight-week-old baby. Please let me know your thoughts.
@KneeDragger The point is when is a fetus a person? Pregnancy is like the hour hand of a clock. A person is not instantly created when a sperm tail wiggles it’s way into an egg.
A human is created. But not a person. That takes quite a few months more. But... the issue is, if it's human, no matter how tiny it is, even a fertilized egg, it's murder. We've killed it. And again, sex is a normal, natural part of life. No one should be punished for having sex if their birth control fails. I wanted the son I had and planned him. I don't think I'd have wanted any other child before him. I wasn't ready. I was married too. But I wasn't ready. He's the son I'm glad I had. And it wasn't easy raising him as I was divorced a few years after his birth. We are not incubators simply because we become pregnant. There has to be choice in the matter, no matter what you want to deem an abortion. NO ONE LIKES ABORTION! We all know it's ending a potential life. That's why people use other birth control that doesn't end in abortion. But it has to be an option for those whose circumstances lead them to choose it. YOU DON'T CHOOSE IT. That is fine. Leave it at that. But don't try to force other people to adhere to your morals. There are reasons they cannot. You don't accept that. Fine. But don't force your morality on others. That's the ONLY point. You cannot choose for others. Safe birth control, even to the point of abortion, should be a right.
@Screenwriter - "A human is created. . . . should be a right" A human person is the same thing as a human or a person; those are just names or stages of the human life cycle, completely defined as the synonymous. Look the definitions up if you don’t believe me. You admit that if the fetus is human, then abortion is wrong. When a human couple has a child after sex, what else can it be, other than human? Again, the unborn are whole complete human beings from the moment of conception. Those characteristics never change! The four traits that do change are the size of the baby, her level of awareness, the environment and her degree of dependency changes as she grows up. Understanding the defining noun and characteristics is key. If you disagree you can define the terms you need to justify abortion, but you cannot switch words around to mean something else entirely. Pregnancy is hard, I agree with you one hundred percent! However, my wife and I can have sexual relations whenever we want except when she has her period because that is pretty gross as the lining in endometrium of the uterus is sluffed off; then there are four days where we need to pay attention to the natural signs of her body. If we want to have a child, green light. We can even determine what sex the child will be. Or we can hold off if we want to wait before we bring our next child into this world. Looks like I need two posts again.
@Screenwriter - All birth-control fails and according to Justice Kennedy (a Catholic by the way) who wrote the majority opinion of Casey v Planned Parenthood said that abortion must remain legal for when birth-control fails. Going back to 1973, Justice Blackburn wrote that if the unborn are ever proven to be human, the case (Roe v Wade) falls apart and abortion must be rejected because of the fourteenth Amendment. Do you see the hypocrisy in the Courts? You talk about “[t]here has to be choice in the matter” and there already is. No one is forcing a woman to have sex! If you argue for abortions in the case or rape/incest then you need to be honest because abortions from rape account for a quarter of a quarter of a percent and that is from when numbers were last accurately available. So arguing for abortion in the case of incest is not honest, you would be just appealing to emotion. Life decisions should not be based on emotions alone because emotions change so easily. Again, my problem with abortion is the slaughter of an innocent child. I make the choice to NOT allow other people to destroy other people. And by the way, abortions, even when legal are never safe for the baby and there is always a large risk to the mother.
@KneeDragger And this is my point precisely Mr. Dragger. Unless all of those aborted babies have vetted homes waiting for them and lifetime support.. stop.
@Screenwriter - Can you predict the future? No one can and the inability to predict the future as a justification to abort a child is just beyond weak. How many people right now starve to death and are homeless in this country? Please provide evidence that all of those people died because they came from families that didn't want them and/or couldn't afford to raise them? Does that sound ridiculous to you? I hope you understand our country allows you to grow up and move up in the different classes of America if you are willing to work, based on nothing else. Do you need me to provide you with examples?
@KneeDragger Of course, no one can predict the future. But future performance is based on past circumstances. A woman chooses a path based on her past circumstances. If they are precarious, she will likely choose what appears safest for her at THAT TIME. This has nothing to do with people who are doing well today and came from poor circumstances or those who came from great circumstances and are doing poorly today. This is SOLELY about how the woman sees her life at the time she chooses to continue with her pregnancy or discontinue. That is it. All these what ifs cloud the simple issue of choosing for right now.
Women need to have that option. As you said, you, nor the millions of others against abortion, will be there for those women and their children. So, based on those facts, she is all alone in this decision, this weighing her work situation, her economic situation and her family situation, if she has other children to provide for. If we had a culture that did support women through their pregnancies and provided child care and early childhood education and support throughout the years 1-19 in ALL circumstances, I'm sure very few women would want or need abortions. We have no such support. We don't value women's lives or their needs OR CHILDREN'S LIVES OR NEEDS!!! That is the problem. Until that is completely turned around, abortion will be a necessity. I have nothing else to say. And thank you for your thoughts on the matter. You are a caring person. I see that. However, we come from different perspectives. As a man you cannot feel the THREAT of being pregnant when you don't want to be, the threat of having your body as an enemy. You will NEVER be pregnant or have to face raising a child you don't want for WHATEVER reason. That is where the rubber hits the road. Birth control fails. A CHILD should never be a punishment for having sex. And that is what a child would be. You think that would scare people off of having sex? It NEVER HAS and it never will. Regards to you.
@Screenwriter - So a woman cannot predict the future just like a man. A child doesn't deserve to die because the circumstances aren't perfect in the opinions of the parents. A natural consequence shouldn't exist?
@Screenwriter - Why should sex be different than any other activity in life, where it would bee consequence free?
Anyone notice how twenty-four guys have an opinion on this with only four ladies? I'll wager a thousand dollars the majority of guys who support a lady having access to abortion, they just want to be able to have sex with women and have a backup for when the "birth-control" fails? Hell, I'll up it to twenty-thousand dollars!
Ofc, nobody should be forced to have sex. Once you have sex and get pregnant that is your problem. in my opinion if its within the first month its pretty humane but otherwise abortion is fucked up
Consenting to sex isn’t consenting to pregnancy.
Yes it is you dumb fucking shithead, I’m not gunna waste my time explaining to you how babies are made
Consenting to sex IS consenting to the consequences of the action, the action of sex.
Consenting to driving isn’t consenting to a wreck.
@oddbeme - "Consenting to driving isn’t consenting to a wreck." Please explain this to me. If you are on the road, you might get in a wreck; even if it's NOT your fault. You still wrecked.
Can we go a day without an abortion question?
Can I go a day without some Anon fuck crashing a party he wasn’t invited to?
I'll stop the abortion debate when people have an honest discussion about abortion and the action is made illegal again.