Should a trans person be charged with rape for sleeping with a straight person and not revealing their birth gender?

[USLegionary]

https://youtu.be/7CThZ1810ww

[snackthatsmilesback]

Well did they lie tho? There's a big difference between both parties just assuming something and later realizing they were both wrong, and one person being implicitly or explicitly told to believe one thing and later finding out they were purposefully misled by the other person. Obviously in the first case it's not rape, but in the second case an argument could definitely be made that it is.

Like with condoms, that's a common example. If the man just assumes she knows he hates condoms and she just assumes he knows that she won't have sex raw—then some shit of silent assumptions during the lights off stage—then yeah they could have sex with no condom and she could feel very violated but he could not be in the wrong. They should have communicated if it was that big of a deal to either of them. Vs you have either she asks and he lies that he'll wear one, or she says earlier she wouldn't have sex raw and he doesn't either tell her that he won't wear a condom, or somehow else back out of having sex, then that's on him cause he purposefully misled her to believe he wore a condom.

Same thing, just with trans vs cis. If the woman just assumes the man is cis, and the man just assumes the woman doesn't care or already knows that he's trans, then they could totally have sex and she feel violated but him not be in the wrong. Should have communicated. Vs if like she says she wouldn't sleep with a trans person and he doesn't tell her or back out of sex some other way, or if he lies and says he's cis so they have sex, then that's on him.

[crmoore]

Obviously this is hard to enforce since what should or shouldn't apply is subjective, but I'm of the opinion that if you deliberately omit information that would, or within reason could, cause the person's decision to sleep with you to change, it should be rape (or preferably, something similar to rape).

For example, it's wrong for a guy to put on a condom in front of a girl, then slip it off right before he penetrates her (called "stealthing," if anyone wants to look into it). That, in my opinion, is wrong. Because had she known he did that, had he not ommited that information, she may not have consented to having sex with him.

[LazerBean]

If they consented to sex with that person, I don't see what the problem is. I mean unless they specifically said they only want to have sex with someone of the opposite gender, but we all know nobody goes around asking that. Making a law that having sex with someone based on thinking they are something else is retarded, it would be like allowing a woman to get a man charged for rape because she had sex with him thinking he was rich when he actually wasn't rich. If you're out having sex with people you don't know, that is 100% on you if you end up disappointed.

[USLegionary]

No it would be like a trans man having sex with a woman without her aware that she wasn't born a woman.

[LazerBean]

All three are same in that a person is having sex with another person based on what they assume about the other person. And all three problems could have been prevented by someone just not being a stupid slut having sex with someone they don't know. Every scenario described as 100% the person's own fault. &

[USLegionary]

A sex offender who tricked three women into relationships by presenting as a male and using a prosthetic penis during intercourse without their knowledge, has been convicted. Tarjit Singh, 32, had abusive relationships with each of the victims between June 2010 and March 2016. Singh was born as a female named Hannah Walters but now identifies as a transgender male. During the course of the relationships, Singh would keep clothing on and have sex with the women using a prosthetic penis in the dark. When the victims began to ask questions, Singh became abusive and manipulative, telling one victim that there was more to a relationship than sex and that she should learn to talk about her feelings more. Following a trial at Snaresbrook Crown Court, on Wednesday, Singh was convicted of three counts of assault by penetration, six counts of assault occasioning actual bodily harm, and one count of making a threat to kill. Describing the sexual contact, one victim said: "He looked like a guy, he acted like a guy."

[USLegionary]

The victim only found out that the defendant was not a man after finding a strap-on prosthetic penis some months into their relationship. She told police officers that she felt so stupid that she had fallen for such lies. Singh told another victim that he had been born a boy, had a sex change to become a woman, and now wanted to be a man again. The third victim met Singh after receiving a message from the dating website Plenty of Fish in 2014. Soon into their relationship Singh told her that he would be having a sex change to become a woman. The victim met with Singh after what she believed was the sex change operation, and noticed that he now had breasts but no scarring. Singh was caught out after this relationship became abusive and the victim made a complaint to police. The investigation then linked back to two earlier victims. During the trial the prosecution was able to present mobile phone evidence that showed a history of websites visited by Singh, which included FreeToMProsthetics. com – a company making ultra-realistic prosthetic penises.

[USLegionary]

Melissa Garner, from the CPS, said: "These victims have been deceived, betrayed and lied to in the most disturbing and traumatic of ways. One of the victims was just 16 years old when she met the defendant. "Tarjit Singh, who was born as Hannah Walters, presented himself as a man, wore men’s clothing and used a man’s name. "He tricked three innocent women into believing he was male and when questioned, he violently attacked them and intimidated them into continuing relationships. "Singh has never admitted his crimes and has continued to claim that these victims were aware of his gender. "The victims in this case have shown immense courage in coming to court and giving evidence. Sexual offences can be some of the most complex cases that we prosecute. "I hope these convictions go some way in providing the victims with closure. The CPS is committed to bringing sexual offenders to justice." Singh will be sentenced at Snaresbrook Crown Court on Wednesday, 27 July 2022.

[LazerBean]

And is that supposed to refute my statement somehow? It's wonderful that the woman felt stupid about it, people absolutely should feel stupid about doing stupid things. You have to be a special sort of brainless to not realize the person you're having sex with is using a strap-on. My statement remains that all of those problems would have been prevented had people not been having sex with people they don't know.

[USLegionary]

Still didn't consent to sex with someone of the same gender. Sex without consent is rape.

[LazerBean]

Out of all the women you've had sex with, how many of them did you ask what their birth gender was?

[joeldalton]

But women can charge a guy with rape if he takes off the condom during sex. The rationale is that she consented to sex with him and a condom, not just him. It seems a guy who is tricked by a tranny could argue that they don't consent to have sex with a person who is also a man.

[USLegionary]

None of them lied and forced me a Hetrosexual male to have non-hetrosexual sex. It's just like how stealthily is now rape.

[LazerBean]

Lol not going to answer the question? And also not telling someone something is not the same thing as forcing. @joedalton the rationale behind pulling off a condom is that it can be result in pregnancy or an std. Also they pre agreed and specified about the presence of a condom.

[LazerBean]

The fact is the person consented to sex. Period. If they do not specify any terms, that is 100% on them.

[joeldalton]

Fucking a guy in the ass can lead to disease, too. Why are you so eager for guys to have sex with other men?

[LazerBean]

And they can agree to wear a condom to prevent it? Lmfao not eager for guys to have sex with other men, I'm eager for people to take responsibility for their own retarded actions and stop complaining about their slit actions having slut consequences.

[joeldalton]

You wouldn’t supply the same standard to women and rape. Why are men somehow different?

[LazerBean]

Actual, legitimate rape? No obviously I don't feel the same way about someone being violently held down and forced on. But yes, if women demonstrated the same retardation that men are about not being careful who they let their genitals come in contact with, I would thing they are just as mentally deficient.

[joeldalton]

@lazerbean so no such thing as date rape?

[LazerBean]

Do you think that consent to eating with someone one and the same as consent to sex?

[joeldalton]

I'm talking about date rape. You're familiar with the concept, right?

[LazerBean]

"date rape /ˈdāt ˌrāp/ noun rape committed by someone with whom the victim has gone on a date." Yep I'm familiar with it. Now answer the question because I'm really curious what your answer is.

[joeldalton]

No, I do not think it's the same. unclear on the reason for the question.

[LazerBean]

Well then I'll spell it out for you. Consenting to a date is not the same thing as consenting to sex. Consenting to sex, however, is in fact the exact same thing as consenting to sex. Therefore you cannot compare a date rape - where the victim does not consent to sex - to being a willing slut, where both parties do consent to having sex. Clear now?

[joeldalton]

So if we're having sex that you consented to and I stick it in your butt.. that's ok, too? Because you consented to sex.. so anything that happens during that sex can't be rape by your definition.

[LazerBean]

Unless it causes physical harm or she says stop, then no I woulnt consider it sex. And sex is sex, so anything that is not sex (harm, violence, literally anything that is not sex) obviously is not included in consent to sex.

[LazerBean]

Wouldn't consider it rape*

[joeldalton]

The law disagrees with you

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-34799692

[LazerBean]

The law in England is irrelevant to anyone not in England. But I'll just agree to disagree with you. Since slut problems don't affect me, I don't really have a strong enough opinion to justify me conversing with a slut this long.

[USLegionary]

International law is very important and rape is rape.

[LazerBean]

It's not international law, and absolutely rape is rape and that isn't rape.

[Daniela1982]

I'm thinking you should be able to tell, one way or another, just by looks of the genitals.

[JessicaEarl]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

[anon1903]

Nope. 1) you should have asked them, bc if you never had any doubts about their original gender, you're just dumb. 2) you should have clarified. Don't bed the first woman who opens her legs after your sucky flirting, believe me you're not that good.

Only straight guys can have such ridiculous concerns lol.

[Sabretooth]

correction: Only straight and insecure guys can have such ridiculous concerns lol.

[USLegionary]

@Sabretooth this has happened to women too, were those women insecure because they didn't consent to lesbian sex with a trans woman who had a 12 inch strap on?

[Sabretooth]

from the stories I've read... there's not much of an issue--they still like penetration. everyone has a preference... it's the attitude that's the issue.

[Sabretooth]

A secure and mature man would've simply said that he wasn't attracted to trans girls.

[anon1903]

@Sabretooth exactly

[Sabretooth]

I was pretty transphobic until I played a few sex games with em in em. It forced me to reevaluate my beliefs.

[anon1903]

@Sabretooth sounds interesting

[Sabretooth]

Here's the one that did it platinmods.com/.../ now, would you really believe me if I told you that I was straight and am no way attracted to her?

[JessicaEarl]

Don’t love the victim blaming going on here. Look up the laws on rape by deception

[anon1903]

@JessicaEarl they still could have and should have asked. I'm not saying that the transgender person is right in here. But the guy here is just dumb. How can you not know? Lmfao

[Aerissa_Jade]

Sure why not, they consented to a biological male/female (guess these days people should make that very clear up front, no assumptions.)

This is no different than consenting to sex with a condom and if he takes it off, consent is withdrawn.

Although if a person does not ASK if they are a biological male/female then maybe it is their own fault for assuming.

[purplepoppy]

I can't see many straight guys standing up in court and confessing they mistakenly fucked a transgender.

[USLegionary]

No such thing as a secret.

[PainusNdeeAnus]

They do on jerry springer all the time

[FauxGirlNikki]

Well depending on how the night went, they may have trouble sitting down and doing that,😉👉👌🤫 lol

[OlderAndWiser]

Consent obtained by fraud is invalid.

[Sour-rose]

Nah? Rape isn't that, soooo yeah, don't think so, mate.

[USLegionary]

So you'd be OK with some dude sticking it too you who later turned out to be a woman with a 12 inch prosthetic penis

[Sour-rose]

If i consented, sure.

[USLegionary]

But you consent to lesbian sex?

[Sour-rose]

Yes.

[Berethor]

Yea it's a rape by deception.

[boggboss]

No I wouldn't say rape although I would agree that a new law should be made for such a thing

[USLegionary]

He did not consent to sex with anyone not born a woman. Sex is supposed to be consensual.

[boggboss]

Then u wpuld have to prove that said person didn't say that before hand I think clasing it as rape will just muddy the water just invent a new law for it

[jshm2]

That would be more "coercion" than rape, though.

[JessicaEarl]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

[JessicaEarl]

This rape by deception. Similar to your friend sneaking in a dark room and having sex with your girlfriend and she thinks it’s you. What she is consenting to is based on falsehood, so consent is false

[AviatorTom]

No, why would that be rape? Assuming the sex was consensual.

[FunkyMonkee]

No, They both agreed to the fuck so, how is it rape?

[andreasderjuengere]

Why going to court? Just beat it out of the house.

[JustinTheGreat]

Um no lol.

[AsaKyo]

That's not really "rape" unless someone is forcing someone into the act lmao

[USLegionary]

Forced into non consensual non Hetrosexual sex

[AsaKyo]

My question is how a straight person wouldn't be able to tell Trans people have a certain look that gives them away lmao

[Sabretooth]

thinking you might be trans yourself, dude... drama queen.

[Daniela1982]

How is it rape if you consented to sex?

[USLegionary]

@Daniela1982 not to gay sex

[FauxGirlNikki]

Not all of them

[JessicaEarl]

@Daniela1982 this is a legal standing. Look up rape by deception

[joeldalton]

absolutely 100%

[AimeeKyle]

No, unless they held you down and forced you (like real rape). How do you not figure it out at some point during the encounter?

[Filthy_Immigrant]

I dont mind cause I know all the possible ways to tell who is a tranny

[AngryCarl]

No. Why should they be punished for your mistake?

[OddBeMe]

I don’t know. This is an interesting issue. One of several with trans rights.

I wouldn’t say rape. I wouldn’t say not assault, though… Kinda like targeting drunk chicks in bars. I don't know, not sure.

[PainusNdeeAnus]

If you think they shouldn’t then you think people who intentionally spread stds don’t deserve to be charged as criminals

[SmokinAces2000]

I don’t think that it’s right but how is it rape?