Why do many guys think they are entitled to effortless sex from women?

[Anonymous]

I notice on here that many guys will act quickly to call a woman “prostitute” or “golddigger” simply because she wants to be courted, taken out to fancy dinners, before having sex.

Obviously there are women who hook up even with men who disrespect them and hit them. So saying that there are women who have sex without expecting anything in return isn’t a valid argument.

To me, a man who chooses the “freeway” shows that he doesn’t value me enough to care to impress me. That in itself is a turnoff whether I am looking for something serious or not.

Again, Why is it wrong for women to expect to be treated generously before hooking up, but not for men to expect sex for nothing?

[Douma]

Ver well said. We live in a world where some woman pretend to know it better then other woman so man will only look at them and they have all the benefits. I did a test but man really do not mind see a woman alone or suffering or prepare her own roof at all.
Man brag about all they have even a woman has nothing.
Man are selfish and only want benefits and to have it easy with woman and they find plenty easy woman. So they bring water to the sea where is plenty water already and still they think they are social. They are not and never will be.
They for sure want only benefits.
Man want no love and hate romance and hate romantic woman and call them materialistic while they choose woman from the left wing also.
So man are boring. They have political relationsships and need propaganda and join a secret society and think they are special while they are not and never will be and they destroyed all countries but claim they made the countries and deserve credit so it is a political issue for all people who talk that way and they like political benefits while the government ignores who needs help the most and even bully and mock and discriminate those people who stand no chance in society ever. so government is all about money and benefits not for the good of all human beings at all and it is one market business and they are sadists and have joy in hurting peoples feelings and bully them and higher people to do that and those people who they attack this way do not imagine this but to whom do they go and talk about it in our society where is no place for them to go. So in a way the government secret like to get rid of those people and where must they go , they are for sure not welcome and nobody was happy when they were born at all.
Benefits always go to the same people.
They have the warrenty over all people to say their opinion and yours is never heard. The unmarried people are vulnarable. So those who marry do that for power to look good and get credit. But that by itself is prove they are not good at all because otherwise we would not live in devision and seperation where some get help and others by the same get attacked what is not sociay to do at all. It is almost if the commercial says to marry a criminal is the best because they do unjust to many people and get a high status in society with the votes of all criminals. Perhaps the land is called criminal country in reality. With a criminal flag and a criminal hymn. It is time we look it up just in case you nev

[Douma]

You never know.

[Meninist]

This male bashing is pretty tiresome. That’s fine if you don’t like men, just stay single forever. Thanks!

[Douma]

@Meninist No problem. Thanks. Ever seen a man with a dig?

[Meninist]

With a dog, do you mean?

[i_love_stars]

I cannot comprehend what that means. Would you please care to summarily explain what it is, please?

[Paul09]

We are all humans and think differently. But yeah bashing all men, and being sexist is not a good look for you. There's good people and bad people. Some ate self centered, and some are not.

[Bert-7]

The question was about men not willing to pay for women anymore and we ended up in Nations politics.. lol

[Asker]

Look at all these lazy, entitled guys getting mad lol.

[Berethor]

"Entitled men", said the woman who think that men should pay for her fancy dinners. :)

[Paul09]

So you are basically a huge hypocrite. You tell people to not do things, yet you are doing it yourself? If you are sour like this, life is gonna suck for you.

[Papavera]

Lol. Love the guys answering 'women are just gold diggers'. Or, 'feminism'.
My dear men.
What exactly are you saying? That sex is the only thing a woman has to offer? Or maybe, the only thing that you care about, when you're with a woman?
I see how the asker's question might have sound wrong, mostly 'taken to fancy dinners' part, but I think she's got the point. Most of you decided to focus only on that part, but completely dismissed the 'courting' part.
If you want sex, make her want sex. What is wrong with dedicating your time to someone, meeting a person, before you ask for sex.
No, she does not owe you sex if you take her out for a dinner. If you want to pay for sex, hire a hooker and call the situation by its real name. That's not what dating is.
'I paid for dinner so it means we'll have sex' translates to 'I didn't invite you for dinner because I like talking to you or because I like your company, but only because I want to fuck you.'
Hell yeah, if he wants sex, he has to impress me.

[Chaz269]

By the same token, if she wants to be with me, she can buy me gifts and pay my way for a night out or ten. You think dating is only about men impressing women? Haha! Impress me! Show me ANYTHING that every other gold-digging whore hasn't already offered. You really think you're special? Give me one example of something wholly unique and entirely extraordinary that you've done for a man, that no other woman has ever done before you.

[Chaz269]

Hahahahaha!

[Papavera]

@Chaz269 Are you kidding? Where in my answer did you read women should do nothing to impress men?

[Papavera]

You're really just turnign aside my words the way you like it. It's pathetic.

[Papavera]

Women waiting for gifts and entertainment... lol. Entertainment should be both sided, why would you date her if you're not having fun with her. And gifts... really, you men, at least here on g@g, because I haven't experienced it irl, have very unhealthy view on women and what do they want.

[Papavera]

@Chaz269

[Chaz269]

I don't need to turn your words aside. You haven't made a relevant point yet. You're just another selfish female who has a lot to say about what men ought to do but says NOTHING about what women ought to do.

[Papavera]

Don't make me laugh... I don't have to justify every 'I want him to' with 'In return I will'. Which doesn't mean I don't do it irl.

[Papavera]

All my points are relevant. Only you refuse to see it, because you'd rather believe that women are selfish bitches than maybe you could be the one doign something wrong too.

[Markfish]

If she wants to be courted, she better make me want to court her.

[Papavera]

@Markfish Or maybe they should bith just impress each other at the same time without thinking if the other person started courting earlier. Seems reasonable to me.

[Markfish]

Meh, although I say that, women don't really have to impress a man. She just musn't have this mindset where I have to earn her and pay for things, that's enough.

[Asker]

People who have higher standards will be l respected. Guys who think they’re entitled to women can go find another chump girl with low self esteem who will give it up without expecting effort on his part. I’m sorry but, it’s not my fault for having higher standards. This is exactly why many men don’t respect women.

[AwesomeCookie]

Girl friend, it's all relative to expectations. I believe the word you are looking for is called "courting". Women and men both should be courted by their admirers. Set your expectations for a man to spoil you, and don't step down cause he won't. Want to be placed on a pedestal and worshipped , then so be it. Just understand that when expectations are high, expect to be disappointed many times over... but having high expectations as such will weed out the men who don't fit your criteria. Believe me, he ain't keeping you for the long haul if you're giving it up even for an expensive meal. There's gotta be more to you for him to want to spend the big bucks anyhow.

[Asker]

I agree sister. I am glad you understand that there's no ill will in expecting to be courted.

[jrallen175]

Well I hope you'll put the time, effort, and money in courting also if a guy crosses your path. Not likely to make it very far otherwise.

[Asker]

@jrallen175 courting is a guy’s job. If he wants to get the prized possession, he needs to work for it.

[jrallen175]

That's bullshit. Women are not possessions and of a girl wants a guy she should do done courting too.

[Xoxocutekitty]

Its not wrong for you to want to be treated a, certain way before hooking up. Your body your rules. However, don't complain if the guy you like, would rather hook up with someone else who has "lower standards" or is just lower maintenance. That kind of girl is less likely to feel disrespected in a relationship over the small things. There will be fewer, "but you used to treat me this way" fights, and more time, appreciating each other. There are guys willing to treat you how you want, but you're going to repel many who, are just looking to have fun, and then get to know, you.

[LoloWaye]

That just means he isn't the guy for her. There's no reason to lower standards for a situation you don't want just to be with someone.

[LoloWaye]

I did the whole hooking up thing and those guys did not respect my body, time or feelings. So I can see why OP would rather someone get to know her first.

[Mr___A]

First of all, The opinion i'm gonna give is not precisely mine. It is a reflexive one.
I'm a gentleman, but not one of those you imagine.

First, women want sex equality AND gentlemen? nonsense. Sex equality is the END of gentlemen. In sex equality, consider you are socially equal to men, in seduction too, then. Those women want too much, i think.

Then, some (in there) consider that " a pussy must be earned with a long seductive period". And thy think they are gentlemen? Your are just saying 'I got for hunting pussies, and sex is my trophy". Classy! I desagree.

Some (in there again), consider that a women respect herself only IF she makes it hard to get in her pants, and the other (the "easy ones", brrrrr) are just sluts. What kind of prehistoric judgment it is? If find very rude and vulgar. You are nobody to teach a women (or a men) if she respect herself or not. Begin with respecting others, and then look if they respect theirselves.
Women that respect therselves KNOWS what they want, and what they need, better that anybody else. Let them in peace. If she want sex on the first date, it is her pleasure, not yours. Respecting yourself isn't about respecting social beliefs (unfounded, in addition). Believe what you want, it is ok, but don't judge anybody.

"So saying that there are women who have sex without expecting anything in return isn’t a valid argument"
I disagree. It is completely valid. Yes some women bow before the desire of men that don't respect her. But don't say that as they were the only ones that have sex on the first date. It is a false short cut i think.
Many girls love sex, and don't want to wait any longer, just because they desire a man.
And some men bow before the sexless relation their partner force them to have. the woman is disrespectful then. And some women bow before the sexless relation their parner forces them to have... The man is disrespectful. Don't just watch at that situations you prefer. Look at all of them. Things are more complex and interesting...

I would say to answer : It's ok for me, that some women want to be seduced before sex. But it has not to be a social rule. Only a matter of personnal taste. I don't fly away before them. As much as it is okay for women that want to have sex on the first date.

[Mr___A]

But, we are talking about men+women. And THAT is the problem... What about women+women? If lesbian have sex on the first date (and I know some that do), who is disrespectful of the other? Woman or woman? Nobody. It is NOT a matter of men and women, but knowing what you want, and trying to reach it.

[TheUglyMan]

I think you have a good understanding of the power women possess.

But you must understand how vigilant a man is to the type of men women go for.

If a man trys to act nice and respectful and do all these dates and stuff. And try court a women and it constantly leads to nothing (we've all been there brothers).

While the fuck boys in the night clubs and the buff guys in the gym get chicks for being pricks. And being absolutely nothing. Dudes notice this and it has some sort effect on them.

The man will notice this pattern and will eventually not see the point of courting a women because they throw themselves to other guys so easily for not courting. Guys will do what's effective and what works. Also it depends on what the guy wants.
Why court constantly if there's no point? Just another investment (financially and emotionally) down the toilet.

The sense of entitlement can come also low key from jealousy and frustration. By seeing thre fuckboys and buff guys in the gym get chicks so easily. While you put in so much effort can get to persons head.

That's just what I think.

[Asker]

No one is entitled to anything. Feeling entitled is a whole different story. Women who go on a date knowing that it isn't going to lead anywhere before it started are definitely deceiving, gold diggers. Unfortunately, there are chicks like that in this world. However, not all girls are like that. You should be able to tell what type of woman you're dealing with by observing her actions.

[TheUglyMan]

Most women are master's at lying, hiding shit and manipulation (especially emotionaly) So it will be hard for a man to tell the type if chick she is. And also what's wrong with being a gold digger? I'm not really the type of guy to shame women for being gold diggers. I don't see why not as long as they straight up. If women are using a beta man to be courted and pampered and to get free shit. And uses the alpha fuck boys in the night clubs to suit her sexual desires that's fine. I just want you to understand why a man might get the sense of entitlement. And how some what the hook up culture has effected male dating tactics in this day and age. And why courting isn't as an attractive way of getting with women to men than it used to be.

[Asker]

Golddiggers are deceiving. They are essentially prostitutes. I don't have anything against them as long as they use protection and don't spread STD's. However, it does bother me that people equate having high standards and not sleeping with just any guy who thinks he's entitled to it to prostitution. A prosititute's primary objective is to have sex only to extract money from someone. My primary objective is to have sex with someone who deserves it and works hard to get it. In essence, a guy who doesn't think he's entitled to it. Because there are many girls out there with low-self esteem who just give it up for free, men assume that every woman is supposed to be like that.

[Berethor]

Low-self esteem, because they don't jump at 55 years old man who offer payment? like you?

[TheUglyMan]

I see i guess it depends on the women in the end

[TrueCelt]

Hm... well. I think you need to look towards feminism. Because, if I buy you a bunch of really nice things and treat you generously, unfortunately, that's not equality. I'd like to have nice things bought for me, instead, or as well. You've got equality. Now live with it.

[Rainlovella]

Both sides are in the wrong

[djmzes]

U r entitled to sex only from ur wife...
Simple as that
If your wife refuses to, it will break ur marriage and God did not put that desire in women as strong as men... so women do not try to understand you will never understand why.

[lastchancemotel]

I don't know. I believe it should be even both ways and look for a woman who believes the same. I'm out to find a partner, not just a nother lay.

[mattLB1993]

Because they are uneducated In the way of proper sexual attraction. Sex is more than just the act, it's mental and physical simulation that so many men don't understand. How to set the mood, setting up the right scene and atmosphere to help ease nerves and provide the right place and time. Some men don't even understand the value of even maintaining basic hygiene so that they are more appealing. It's a lack of understanding and knowledge that's why they feel rejected and call names

[Paul09]

Wrong subject, and wrong gender... 😑

[babylips14]

OP, Do you practice courtship?

[sugarchateau]

This isn’t girls versus guys.
Girls read too much into things and guys don’t read enough into it.
Ultimately, there are going to be personalities where some people expect certain things on both sides. The part where most are having an issue is communicating that we are all struggling with basically the same shit just opposite genders.

People who want sex will want sex, people who want to spoil will spoil, people who are materialistic will be materialistic..

[Quentin_]

Well said 🙏

[i_love_stars]

Reminds me of "Nobody exists on purpose, nobody belongs anywhere, everybody's going to die. Come watch T. V"

[Asker]

People who want higher standards will be Moreno respected. Guys who think they’re entitled can go find another chump girl with low self esteem who will give it up without expecting effort on his part. I’m sorry but, it’s not my fault for having higher standards. This is exactly why many men don’t respect women.

[Berethor]

Give it up without expecting payment, because she might actually want him for what he is.

[sugarchateau]

No one is asking you to lower your standards. Now, in this moment of me seeing you responding as if you feel threatened and upset could make me think you are just an angry and thoughtless person. I could just sum up your entire being based off this one experience with you, because this is my only personal experience with you. But here's the thing about all humans, male and female... We don't know everything, especially not the entire life story of someone else. And people are allowed to express and share many feelings. We are in no place to judge, even if we have our "high standards". It doesn't make you any less susceptible to what everyone else experiences. It just makes your priorities different. Moral of the story, the side you see within a moment that a person vulnerably exposes... is not the entire picture. Stop assuming. I won't assume that you're a closed-minded and, instead, remember that you are just as human as everyone else. Not capable of reaching perfection.

[sugarchateau]

@Berethor Yes, some people just want what they want. There is definitely a difference between priorities and desire.

[babylips14]

It's wrong to judge people just because they share a different perspective. Reasonable minds can differ. You should say the same to the people trying to discredit the asker on every single comment and calling her different names.

[MargaritaPeach]

Sex for nothing? There is only one thing that men OR women should be 'getting' from sex: pleasure. And if it's not as pleasurable for you as it is for him, try something new. So he isn't benefiting from sex any more than you are. You're BOTH getting lucky. Equally lucky.

[rahul_24]

Straight to the point. Well put

[Unit1]

Women like you give me hope after reading a question like hers 😌

[Asker]

If a man wants that pleasure, he needs to work for it. Otherwise, he thinks he’s entitled to it. Of course, I et pleasure out of sex. However, I know what my worth is and I’m not going to give it up to any random guy knowing how hard it is for many guys to find it :)

[Asker]

You decided to focus only on that part, but completely dismissed the "courting" part. Why is it okay for men to expect free, effortless sex and not for the woman to expect courtship and effort from the guy? Give me one good reason why I should give it up to any man who walks up to me and says, "let's fuck". Come on, I'll wait.

[FMJ_Guy]

Who ever said it was wrong for you not to expect to be respected, and treated well?
If a woman posts, here, complaining that guys just 'used' her, I am not just assuming the guys were punks, but maybe she was too willing, and didn't consider that he might be a d-bag user!!
Women have a responsibility to themselves, their bodies, and it is just CRAP, if she hooks up with someone that is a user, a loser, and then complains, later, because she just chose a bad guy because she was drunk, or just made a bad choice!!
I don't think that most guys assume that they are 'entitled' to sex, and now, more than ever, I think many of us are afraid to connect, with the 'MeToo' thing, and the 'harassment' things, in the news!!
Who needs that?
I think all those things, now, make most guys want to just watch porn, and not even take a chance of being charged with something!!
Once you get charged, as a guy, it follows you FOREVER, and destroys your life, even when you didn't do it!!!

[Asker]

Do you believe in courtship?

[Tdieseler]

Why do many women think they are entitled to be "courted" first before sex? We don't have to. I certainly don't. But we can always make an agreement according tot he 90-10 theory.

You want your courting, i want my sex. we shake on it.. we do it.

by the way... no man expects sex for nothing, and i believe i speak for all men here when i say that we are giving, from the moment we approach, to the moment we die because we have had enough of you.

Its because you women don't give jack shit but what you want to... thats why you don't see it. You think it doesn't take time and effort to plan the "courting" you want? and maybe money? when we could use that money on a video game, and some shoes, and take the time and effort to play it or try em on. And you think its all nothing? You try having sex in exchange for courting then... how bout that.

[hasrett]

I literally opened this topic only to see if you left a comment here.

[silverqueen]

^ Lmfao!!!

[Tdieseler]

@hasrett are you talking about me? like you clicked on it just to see if i said something? if you did... im blushing.. if you didn't.. im STILL blushing... i got 12 male up votes... girls GOTTA be hating this comment. ... ugh... damn...7 of them hate it. whoo-hooo.. means i am going the right direction lol. Thanks for the mention hasrett

[Asker]

And you think preparing for date doesn't take time and effort on our part? You do realize how much money women spend on hair, make up, nails, nice outfits, and jewelry, just to make a good impression, right? Just to look attractive to you. Of course, you don't see it that way because you guys only think about yourselves. You don't think about the efforts women in general have to make from buying tampons to other kinds of grooming. Just throwing in my $0.02.

[Tdieseler]

Do you realize how much of a shit we don't give? that was what i said in my original opinion before being attacked. Guys Don't Give A Shit. As long as you don't look like a homeless hobo with tattered clothes... we are good. we want you, not what you wear (hahahaha we want you naked... ok.. ok.. joke... joke) but who you are. and that is how we pick who we wanna be with. not by the size of your nails... the bulge of your "clutch", the sparkle of your glitter... we don't give a shit... we want a bad ass bitch who will get into it for us... that way we become bad ass men who will stop her... because "we got this"... its a simple equation. Read my Takes... every time i mention some moron who is all made up, i tell my fellow guys to run... im boycotting the whore business. increasing the spiritual... and maybe physical.

[Asker]

My apologies. I misunderstood your opinion to be that women don't put effort on their part.

[Tdieseler]

Do they? The way i see it, they have a choice... its the impresSor (the male) that doesn't have any. and im revolutionizing that. because guys spend time too even before the female knows she's the target. if you mean effort like she picks a good dress, pulls out her best make up... etc.. that ain't SHIT compared to what guys do. and that is why guys like me... we don't care anymore. Do you want me to tell you stories of how many girls that i went to bed with and they looked like Cinderella... and i woke up to them looking like an Ogre cuz the makeup wore off? my theory is.. let your partner see you at your worst... and if s/he loves you like that, when you apply the extra shit, just makes your love hotter. because it means they accept YOU.. not what YOU look Like.

[vishna]

Hmmm I don't hook up, so, I can't speak on that.
But as a woman in a relationship, I think I don't understand how guys think just because they're hard that means I'm turned on.
It's much better when the time is taken to get a person really turned on.
If I'm already in the mood, no biggie, things can go faster.
But I don't understand how some guys think I'm ready for sex when 5 minutes ago it was the last thing on my mind.

[devilman666]

I believe this boils down to biology. The male brain is developed to allow for sex whenever the female is ovulating. Males tend to be turned on easier, which is also why their bodies have to produce so much semen all the time, to be prepared for reproduction at any time a female is ready and waiting.

[vishna]

@devilman666 I know but it's like wouldn't guys understand (beyond the virgin/no experience phase)? I've had bfs get upset I'm not dtf after 5 minutes of 'foreplay' it's just weird. I dunno why I was downvoted? If anything it's a tip...

[Markfish]

Shows you aren't sexually attracted to the male body.

[vishna]

@Markfish You just pulled that out of the air. I'm attracted to male bodies : p Give me Jason Mamoa on a platter any day yasss

[Markfish]

If you where sexually attracted by the male body, you should be ready for sex by looking at a naked guy in front of you.

[vishna]

@Markfish trolllllolololol

[Markfish]

Not trolling at all

[crazy8000]

That's actually part wise right and not trolling. But this isn't popular to talk about because of society bios and female stigma. Some people doesn't get atracted of just seeing a naked body. or for that matter of that person's body they are looking at. Also you can see on a female body if she is horny in more ways than a male body if you know what to look for.

[Markfish]

What are you trying to say?

[devilman666]

As a demisexual male, I'd like to point out that sexual attraction can be based off of much more than just physical attraction, for me physical attraction plays almost no part in it. Demisexual means I feel ne sexual attraction for anyone without first having romantic feelings about the person, it's part of the asexual spectrum.

[VIVANT]

I don’t know why if you both want srx why he is supposed to impress you for both of you to have to sex. YOU want sex don’t you? If you don’t want sex don’t hve it but if you do then you are getting what you want so why are you supposed to get dinner out if it?

When you add treats into the mix it’s like he’s bribing srx out if you... You either want sex or you don’t.

This is part of the idea women put out for a price... you’re not putting out or giving it up or giving in... you either want srx or you don’t. You’re not needing him to prove your value to yourself do you can have sex. You want it or you don’t.

Women who “give it up for free” probably actually want sex and are not using it to make themselves feel valued.

Are you having sex bc you want sex or are you bartering your body for other goods?

Or are you talking about dating? Bc you only mentioned sex it sounded like hooking up after dinner.

If it’s datujg well doesn’t it go both ways?

[backdoorman]

Yes, a woman who gets it! Thank you! Are there any more women like you?

[Unit1]

Women like you give me hope after reading a question like hers 😌 @backdoorman I saw a few others here. They are on their way to become unicorns if they aren't already 🦄🦄🦄 That's what "dating" has turned into. You'll have to find your unicorn in a crowd of people.

[Silver158]

she gets it. Unfortunately a lot of women today seem to think that just because they have a vagina that men should worship them and give them free shit in exchange for having sex with them.

[Unit1]

@Silver158 Those are not the type of girls you would like to have anything long term with anyway. Press the red eject button and avoid!

[Silver158]

@Unit1 damn skippy

[Silver158]

@Unit1 the thing I've found with that type of girl is they're usually terrible in bed. Like either don't know what they're doing, don't want to participate in foreplay (want you to go down on them but won't go down on you for example), are generally unenthusiastic or will just bend over and refuse to move until you're done.

[Unit1]

@Silver158 ewww they may be the type, who will get fat after marriage. Just saying.

[Silver158]

@Unit1 or even when they're in a relationship. but hey I know guys who are like that as well.

[Asker]

It’s called having high standards girl. I know my self-worth and I’m not going to make it easy for a guy to get something valuable from me. It’s that simple.

[Silver158]

Sex isn't really that valuable if you take into account that the supply and demand is quite even.

[Maddie03]

What about the other type of woman who doesn't need lots of money spent on her or lavished with gifts before sleeping with him but actually just says no, im not ready yet and waits until she feels comfortable with him before having sex?

[Eikz1000]

I respect and admire that. Sex shouldn't happen until both parties are ready. I just usually make up my mind before the woman.

[TrueCelt]

Well said

[Asker]

I believe that a woman should have Sex with a guy when she feels ready, but to me and many other women, part of that “getting ready” process is to see the effort the man has made into getting with her to begin with. If a woman just gives it up for free without expecting much effort from the guy in return, then she has very little self-worth and it just makes it easier for guys who don’t think much of her to begin. They perceive her as being “too easy”.

[Eikz1000]

I'm don't exert the effort to get in her pants, the effort is to show her her I care, that I give a damn about her as a person, I don't disagree with waiting until you are ready I disagree with the notion that the effort is an attempt to get into your pants not to make someone I care about feel special.

[Berethor]

Well asker, men see women as too easy depending on how many men she had, it have much to do with how much payment she taken for it. Also when a man paying, a woman can feel obliged, and rightfully so, otherwise the man had paid for nothing.

[Berethor]

I mean it didn't have much to do with how much payment she taken for it.

[Bert-7]

The feminist movement is a direct cause of less romance. I'm a old school person, French, love being romantic, charming and everything. But really is, it's not like that anymore, women are different. Man had to treat them like princess because ladies didn't had much, they couldn't work, they had no job and they also shouldn't give themself easily ( parent consent, wait for marriage etc ). In that context, it made sense.. the lady was dating only you and you could start spoiling her and impress her cuz its was already serious on a way.
Now man makes equal money with ladies who have their own career. They have sex with who ever and date multiple people. You want to spend money on someone you will be with, not just on a random girl that you will probably never see again.
In our modern society, we get to know the people first, then surprise, I spoil you.
If the man turned out to not be that of a match you can leave him, in the past you couldn't.
I wish I could still open doors and be very nice, offer fancy dinner etc... The reality is men do not get respected for that anymore. It's something from the past.

[annie616pop]

Yes, I can believe, that in your neck of the woods, everything you say is true. However, I have a different experience. I was raised in the Southern United States, five generation Navy and Marine Corp career family with an extended family or "clan" of around 300 people. Our men treat us as royalty. The full gentlemen's protocol. Boys learn this from their elders and older brothers. If they don't get it right they are taught manners with sufficient persuasion on the randori mat or ring. Result? Men and boys are no less masculine for being chivalrous. Women no less feminine for their strength, independence, and intelligence. Sir, feel free to open my door.

[Asker]

I agree. What I don't get is why a lot of these entitled guys have the audacity to say that expecting good-quality courtship before having sex is prostitution. Why?

[Bert-7]

Because the guy feels like paying for sex, when having money or but should but matter. When a guy meet a girl he wants to have sex with her to create this special connection because you ladies go a lot by your feelings and sex brings a lot of them. Anyway, so using money to have a chance to create that connection sound a lot like paying for sex in a guy mind.

[Asker]

But, it really isn't because money isn't the only thing we're after. I'm sure that other women have different objectives, but not every girl is after money. I actually want a genuine connection with someone, but only with someone who is worth my time and who will treat me like I want to be treated. Why is that so hard to understand?

[dancing_in_nebulas]

They dont care about that specific girl except sex.
Whats funni is that while they use her, they are taking the girl they really wany out on dates until they are official and other girl is dropped.

Men invest into what worthwhile to them.

If he dont date you, to him, you're just a poor investment.

[fsu19]

Sounds bad but it's true. Men only invest in who they see is worth investing in

[VegetaSSB]

I don´t know and i never felt that way , maybe some think that because they are rich or got a six pack they should be worshiped like gods and have everything they desire given to them.

[Asker]

Thank you for having common sense. I love how guys assume that expecting courtship equates to prostitution. That's the pure defintion of entitlement.

[ThoughtfulGuy75]

Another way to look at this is why do (some) women expect to be wined and dined and still expect the man to have sex with them?

Sex should have nothing to do with any of what you did in that time beforehand.

There shouldn't be any expectation of anything from either side. A woman shouldn't expect her meals and drinks to be paid for. A man shouldn't expect to have to pay. A woman shouldn't be expected to have sex if a guy does do those things.

Sex should be an enjoyable activity between two people for the simple reason that it gives both of them pleasure. This can be to show feelings for one another, or because of attraction or lust.

If a woman is giving sex as a reward for receiving things of value, she's not valuing herself. So the terms gold digger or whore or prostitute are actually fairly accurate in that circumstance. If you can literally buy your way into her pants, it's a pleasurable transaction, not a shared pleasurable experience.

[babylips14]

Women value courtship; men value sex. Women seek providers; men seek fertility (beauty), hence why you see more women lowering their standards in the looks department while men are much more critical. You see men lowering their standards or not having standards at all in the financial department, but not women. This is meant to trigger reproduction and increase chances of survival. It's evolutionary biology. If he's getting his biggest craving fulfilled (sex), why can't women get theirs (courtship)? Now I'm looking at it from a business standpoint.

[ThoughtfulGuy75]

Courtship isn't buying things for someone. So you're still looking at it the wrong way. Writing poems, picking a bunch of flowers, dancing, talking all night, these days messaging all night... It's the actual activities of getting to know one another, not buying stuff. The realty is the most effective courting techniques are free, as they are sincere actions and words. Again, if you're giving it up for a few meals, you're doing it wrong! Maybe you need to rethink your idea of courting. You might actually be giving guys the impression you're easy.

[ThoughtfulGuy75]

Plus your retort is bullshit. There are plenty of hot women around rich ugly men, but very few around poor ugly men. We don't just seek beauty. If that's all that's there, we get bored and move on pretty quickly. But people should have high standards in what they want for themselves and the person they plan to spend the rest of their life with.

[tallestbassist89]

The problem why women are being called golddiggers is because well real actualy women who are golddiggers. Just watch those youtube pranks. If a regular guys walks up to a girl and asks her out or something she isn't slightly even interested. But as soon as it turns out the guy has a lambo, she is suddenly all over him. And that is fucked up. I get it why you want fancy dinners and a good life. But golddiggers show utter lack of self respect. And if you don't repsect yourself why do i ahve to respect you. And if i dont repsect you, why should i take you out to fancy dinners? If you are only nice towards a guy just because he is rich. Don't expect to be treated anything else like an object he can buy. And if money is the only way a man can show you he is willing to work for you. well what makes you different from a prostitute/golddigger then? I wouldn't mind spending every last cent i had on a woman if i knew she loved me for me. But golddiggers man.. fuck those bitches.

[babylips14]

I've watched those videos. Usually the guy will ask a girl and she'll reject him. Then he shows up in a lamborghini and she's all over him. The problem is that those girls are technically just women who are attracted to rich dudes, which isn't wrong in itself. What's wrong is deceiving someone for attaining those material things. If an ugly girl walked up to you and asked you out and you rejected her; but then she takes off her make-up and her wig that made her look unattractive and now she looks like a VS model. Would you call yourself superficial? Just something to think about.

[Berethor]

@babylips14 the difference is that a girl body it actually a part of her, same goes for a guy's D. A money is not actually a part of person, and many golddiggers go for unattractive men.

[babylips14]

@Berethor A woman's body is an external superficial quality like money is. It's no different. What makes it bad is deceiving someone to attain those things such as a pretty woman or a rich man.

[tallestbassist89]

The body is not an "external superficial quality" It is literally a huge part of you that we are SUPPOSED to be attracted to you. biologically we are ment to like what you look like, so we would want to reproduce offspring. But the thing with golddiggers who go for ugly guys is that it shows they don't care not one bit about the person. There is a huge difference. And you are not attracted to rich men you just like money. Also a huge difference.

[Logorithim]

I think of it as a marketplace. There are different segments to the market, i. e., people with different expectations.

I don't find that desire on the part of women unreasonable, and I think it is a function of the leverage they hold, knowing that men want to have sex. The courting is part of the competition with other men for her, as he is signaling that he is worth being with and, including, having sex with.

[Asker]

Couldn't have said it better! You are indeed very smart. I wish more people had the same mentality you have. I commend you for it.

[Logorithim]

Thanks...

[OlderAndWiser]

Some people don't understand courtship, and some people are bitter because of bad experiences. I don't waste time thinking about them because I am too busy having good times and enjoying life.

[Asker]

Why do some guys have the audacity to call women who want to be courted "prostitutes" or "golddiggers" if they want to be taken out to fancy dinners and dates?

[OlderAndWiser]

That is God's way of telling you who to avoid dating.

[jessicake]

Generally people don’t like to be treated like objects, but few may either not have a problem with it or never knew it was even a problem to be objectified or to objectify others so they continue to expect it. When someone tells them it’s wrong, they get defensive. Not saying that this behavior is okay on all parts, but if people choose to live their lives this way it shouldn’t effect you. Just steer clear of men and women like this is it really bugs you. I’m currently doing the same because no one worth committing would only objectify you for their own gain.

[babylips14]

Do you think it's wrong to end a relationship with someone for not being able to provide you with the type of relationship/lifestyle you once had?

[Onlythisone]

Because they feel life is easier for you naturally so you owe it to them. Many lack perspective and can't imagine someone having different priorities. They think you should want casual hookups and be grateful for them. Since they don't want someone who loves and cherishes them they can't imagine the perspective of those who do.

[devilman666]

I'd argue that most men want someone to love and cherish them. I know I do. Many men can feel embarrassed about that though, again I am guilty of this. It's common since we tend to shame boys for being emotional or sensitive. Beyond that, people of both genders seek casual relationships all the time, they've become rather common. As a result sex holds little value, and with looks falling off after 35 for most women, it seems silly to spoil some woman you barely know, if you're worth it in his eyes the he'll probably treat you well, make yourself worth tbe effort and it will happen. Also, you said guys think they're owed sex, but the girl literally said she thinks she is owed a free meal just to be given a chance at sex. It's like if the lottery gave 100 dollar max prizes instead of 1 million but kept the odds and ticket price the same. Some idiots would still hit it, some would play for fun, but most would see that it's overpriced with such low prizes that it's pointless.

[Onlythisone]

@devilman666 hypothetical example: say 2/10 girls is promiscuous in their teen years, they get all the attention from guys who soon leave but there is always another waiting. The other 8 see this and try to find a guy but one might talk to them for a day before switching to the one that is guaranteed to put out. Some of those girls decide they'd rather put out than be ignored for ever so in their early twenties they switch to the party girl ways. The rest hold out hope that someone will like them until someone either tricks them into thinking they like them, they find a relationship, or they get a vibrator and give up. Meanwhile, they are getting older and the chance of ever getting a family diminishing, and they spent all their life waiting for something that wasn't going to happen because they were told guys don't love sluts, and all those guys keep using the slut excuse as a reason they don't want something that is theirs and theirs alone.. how does anyone get anything they want?

[wolfguy]

Because a lot of men are dickheads.

[Asker]

I agree. And stupid too. Thinking that expecting good-quality courtship equates to prostitution smh.

[hahahmm]

Treated generously... in my opinion, if you act exactly like what the guy considers to be a ‘great catch’ he will treat you ‘generously’. Different guys have different ideas about what a great catch is.

It’s all the flip side of how a woman could be EASY with a ‘bad boy’ but be a hard to get nun with the guy who is respectful & seriously interested in deep long term — even tho she finds them both attractive.

I actually feel like I know too much about how the world works & wish I could un know some things.

[Paul09]

Life experience, and common knowledge that people seem to forget.

[Asker]

My question is this. Why do guys think they're entitled to women and why do they get mad that women have high standards? Women, especially attractive women, have plenty of options to choose from. If there are millions of chivalrous guys who will treat her better and take care of her, why should she settle for a guy who thinks he's entitled to her and who won't do shit?

[hahahmm]

Because those guys are used to dealing with the women who did not have high standards. Just like if a guy was eating at Burger King 3x a day and one day the cashier says, ‘that will be $40 for your steak, sir”... he’s gonna flip.

[Asker]

That makes more sense. Some girl on here went off on me and started attacking me simply because I said that I wouldn't stay in a relationship with someone who couldn't give me the lifestyle I am used to anymore or have sex with me anymore. She said that I am a golddigger and a prostitute. Why?

[devilman666]

I'll answer your question with a question. Why do you think you deserve to be valued so highly? Between prostitutes, porn and casual relationships, one can easily stay sexually satisfied. So saying you bring sex to the table is pointless, you want it as much as he does and he can get the same thing elsewhere easier. Make your personality better, offer him a great home life or a great personality to love, hobbies to enjoy with him, learn things to interest him. For me personally, I am a 22 year old demisexual virgin. Demisexual means that I don't have sexual attraction to others unless I have an intimate romantic connection with them first. As a result I've never cared that much for sex obviously, I hold it in high value but I don't seek it because it doesn't hold value to me unless it's with someone special. I don't see a point in courting worthless women so that I can get some worthless sex, that's the same as getting a prostitute.

[devilman666]

Also, gold diggers are usually women who expects money and gifts simply because of her vagina, and gets angry when she isn't given said things.

[devilman666]

If sex and a hot body are all you bring to the relationship and his life, neither of you will be satisfied and it will end fast. Remember the wall hits you when you're in your 30s, so lock down a man before then, once the wall hits and you lose that body then you better hope you're not just some cranky bitch with a shit personality, if that happens then you'll probably be alone for a long time, getting pump and dumped by the only guys who will fuck you.

[Dzokson00]

roasted

[Tomblebee]

@Dzokson00 I can't tell if you are a man today.

[Dzokson00]

ima boy, im 17

[Tomblebee]

@Dzokson00 I think it was pink.

[Sspaulding728]

Most men that pressure women into having sex are only after just that. They don't care about you. Just catching a nut. While they're talking to you they're carrying on 10 other conversations with other chicks at the same time.

[babylips14]

Do you believe in courtship?

[Sspaulding728]

@babylips14 If your refering to going on dates and stuff like that. Yes. I'm a firm believer in it. While it might be nice to have a fling here and a fling there. I seek companionship, someone to grow old with. Maybe start a family. Its hard though. No one wants to put the effort into relationships anymore. They just wanna screw and be over with it.

[surferfelix]

Do you value him enough to care to impress him?

If you are dating then there needs to be equal effort from both sides.

If you are just in for sex, then why do you want to go out to dinner, it just doesn't make sense to me.

[jmsdtl321]

Maybe the man would like to be courted in some way for once?

Sex isn't just for a man, women also like/want sex just not as much. So why do I have to buy you shit before we have sex, when it's mutually beneficial? But you don't have to do anything?

It's a very selfish entitled attitude to have, which is why men get mad. They want sex, but they have to pay a bunch of money and just through a bunch of hoops just for the possibility of sex. If women had to do this they would get tired of it as well.

[jmsdtl321]

Say you are horny, you want to get laid, but you don't want a boyfriend. But everyman you approach wants you to spend 60-100 dollars on them and still won't let you fuck them after... how would you feel?

[Asker]

The primary objective of sex is to have fun. However, women with self-respect aren't going to share that experience with just anyone who crosses her path knowing that she has plenty of options. Especially if she's hot. If there are guys who are willing to put in the effort to be with her, why should she settle for a guy who thinks he's entitled to it and won't do anything for her? This is a real life economic problem.

[Berethor]

If she have plenty of options then why is she alone for such a long time?

[Asker]

@Berethor Who says she is?

[KaramelKisses]

Women today dont realize just how powerful pussy is over men ESPECIALLY when its unexplored pussy. Men also won't get attatched to u as much if u give them the pussy without effort. Its easier on them emotionally, they got to explore your unexplored pussy and bust a nut. And save they. Money. Its a purely win win for men and a completely lost for women. MEN TODAY TRY TO CON WOMEN OUT OF THEY PUSSY AND a lot OF WOMEN ARE FALLING FOR IT TRYING TO GET BROWNIE POINTS, RINGS, AND PROVING THEY CAN BE THE MAN TOO. What use to be the cheapest women now look like the most expensive, escorts, and strippers. Because the average woman is now free pussy😂😂😂😂😂 its sad to see how feminist are ruining it for women.

[GirlOfApathy25]

That is a really great question.
This is just another reason I hate "dating".

[Goodwifie]

I never needed to be taken out to fancy dinners.
A person's time is of more value to me.

[Coconut_Man]

Are most Aussie women like this? If yes, I wanna move there 😊

[Goodwifie]

Some are and some aren't. My favorite dates are picnic dates because there's no distractions and no waiters interrupting your conversation. Went on a picnic date with my husband minus the kids recently and it was lovely.

[Asker]

Having high standards is equally as important. This isn’t why guys think they’re entitled. Women make it “too easy” for them.

[Goodwifie]

But you can still have high standards without the high cost.

[Asker]

That's the thing. People have different lifestyle preferences. I'll admit that I have high standards and expensive tastes. For that reason, I prefer someone who is on the same level as me. Not that there's anything wrong with not expecting fancy dinners or even a date, but some people just prefer a different style of living. It just pisses me off that some guys have the audacity to say that women shouldn't expect to be courted in the first place regardless of how costly the dates might be. They think that women should just give it up for free otherwise they're "prostitutes" or "golddiggers". To them, expecting to be courted is equivalent to selling sex. Yet, they slut shame and degrade women who give it up too easily. Do you see the problem here?

[Goodwifie]

And my opinion is that dates don’t have to be exspensive. We have a difference of opinion that’s all.

[godfatherfan]

Being "courted" is different then demanding "fancy dinners" and being "treated generously" or "playing hard to get". If she wants to be courted, awesome. I am a gentleman and frankly, at my age, Sex is about 3rd or 4th on the list and not overly important. If she is playing "hard to get", that is just bullshit games that I refuse to play. If she needs "fancy dinners or needs to be treated "GENEROUSLY" then she is a gold-digging whore and needs to go fuck herself.

[Asker]

Well, you can't blame women for wanting to be taken to a fancy restaurant instead of a McDonald's. Especially if there are millions of guys who would treat her a lot better. There are plenty of women who wouldn't care, but those with high standards do. And there's nothing wrong with wanting someone who can give you the lifestyle you want to have.

[Berethor]

Then she can go looking the 'millions' of guys who are willing to pay for her pussy.

[Hyped_up_on_coffee]

Being courted is one thing , demanding to be taken to fancy dinners is another ! The Economy sucks and a lot of Millenials are broke !

Sex is more about doing it whenever you are comfortable doing it with a person because you love them or because you feel like doing it for fun. If you need the need to feel valued as a person that is fine but to expect fancy things before putting out Is not , men have feelings too. Sex shouldn’t be treated as something that is bought.

[Eikz1000]

Well said

[Asker]

You’re every broke guy’s dream. If you’re satisfied with a guy who is broke and who won’t put in the effort to get what he wants from you, that’s your problem. But don’t bash women who aren’t l, who have self-worth, and who expect to be treated with respect. Wanting a guy to put in the effort to get sex from you is not selling it. It’s called having dignity and respect. Not being “easy”. Guys who want to get laid with the smallest amount of effort possible don’t have much feelings for the woman to begin with.

[Hyped_up_on_coffee]

You didn’t really get what I said and are missing the point entirely. I said it’s ok to wanna be valued but to not expect fancy things before putting out because that’s being a gold digger. I also have standards because to be my man or girl they need a degree and a job. I always pay for myself in the beginning of dating to show my independence and so I don’t owe anything anyone anything. It’s something my mom told me , just because some men buy you dinner they expect you to put out... shit.

[Asker]

As a traditional gal, I expect to be courted before even before putting out. Golddigging is having sex ONLY for the money. Not me. If I'm dating or planning on having sex with someone is because my primary objective is to have fun or get into a relationship. Not to extract money from them. However a man who spends money on a woman shows that he values her worth enough knowing that guys spend money on things they want and value.

[Hyped_up_on_coffee]

The way you worded your question made you sound like a gold digger , which is why I differentiates between women who feel the need to feel valued and gold diggers. Still the economy is changing and culture is changing as well , and wanting someone to spend crazy amounts of money makes you sound like a brat. It would be better worded to ask if men still value chivalry and making an effort to court a women rather than even bothering to mention money. No man wants to be used for money , that’s kind of a red flag.

[Asker]

I'm not saying that I disagree with you. However, when it comes to lifestyle, women and even men have different tastes and standards. Some women would be happy to be taken out to McDonald's on a first date. Not me. Not that there's anything wrong with that or not caring about someone's financial status, however I personally prefer someone who is financially secure enough to take me to a restaurant I want to go to. Someone who shows me that I am worth the his time, money, and effort. Golddigiging is dating men for the sole money of extracting money from them. However, that's not my objective. If anything, I'll admit that I have expensive tastes and prefer a guy who is on the same level. I think a lot of guys on here have a sense of entitlement and think that women are supposed to give up their time, effort, and bodies for free without expecting anything in return.

[Hyped_up_on_coffee]

I’ve never done McDonald’s as a first date. I usually do bars or coffee. Right now I don’t want to get Married so the standards for a bf/gf are lower than for husband or wife atm. For marriage I want a good credit score and a decent career and demand they be my equal.

[Eikz1000]

I also want a woman who could be my equal career wise and financially, but why is sex considered a favor from the woman too the man, why do I have to prove my worth too you by paying for expensive dinners and dates and gifts, why don't you buy me dinner, why don't we treat each other as equals and split the check, how about you buy me a nice watch and and I'll get you a beautiful necklace and afterwords we have sex because we love each other and both want it not because I picked up the check at the hibachi place. That's what seems right to me.

[i1T2daty]

You probably didn't intend to do this but you're question sounds exactly like that of a prostiture. You are asking 2hy guys want to have s3x w/o putting out a certain amount of money. I have nothing against prostitutes but have issues with hypocrisy.

The effort I put forth in having sex with a lover is to make her get at least the same amount of physical pleasure as a I do when having sex,
Whether I take her to dinner or Paris is a completely different question.

[Markfish]

Yup this chick is literally a prostitute

[Berethor]

Well getting paid for sex the a definition of a prostitute, so they have a point. Being a gold digger to some degree seems to be an common trait among women. Yes you can talk about how having a man pay for you makes you feels more 'valued', especially when it's comes to one-night stand, but the guys still have a point, also what the problem to admit being an gold digger? also when you say that men who don't pay "expect sex for nothing", it's imply that you don't enjoy the sex as much, if at all.

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoldDigger

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoldDigger

[KII-NGH]

She isn't talking about getting paid! She's talking about making her feel like you actually care. From what I gather you don't even need to take her out. Cook her something, or want her fav show with her. It's a gesture not a payment!!! I'm happy be to corrected on this by any lady's.

[Berethor]

Taking her out to fancy dinners don't sounds like cooking her something at home.

[KII-NGH]

She wasn't saying it as a pre-payment. She was saying it as a gesture that you still love her and care enough to take her out. So cooking some thing for her would fulfil that gesture.

[VonDamme]

Yeah kiingh is right. If he just takes me on a walk in a park (which is all free to do where I live) and talks to me and makes me feel like he actually cares about me that's something I want. I count that as courting. If he says "let's cook together at my house" that's a date to me and that's courting. It doesn't have to cost money. However, if he takes me to dinner, during the beginning of the relationship I feel like he pays if he's interested. I text back quickly and I show my interest. I'd cook for him and things like that to show my attraction. I just think if you're taking me on a date then you're not interested in my if you didn't pay. I'll pay my half, but then I'm assuming there will be no more dates.

[Berethor]

If the guy is not interested he would not be with you at all, it's has nothing to do with if he pays for you, and maybe it's you who is not interested in him, if you are not willing to pay, not even for yourself. Also there is the fact that many guys pay only because they feel that they "have too". Also when a guy barely knows the girl, he don't really know how interested he in her, and it's one of the main points of dating, so why should a guy pay for a girl, especially a girl that he is barely knows? it's fucked up for both sides, the girl would likely feel that he have to give him sex in return, and the guy is paying for a girl who he might not meet again anyway, and for a girl who might be with him only because his is paying for her. Why the only things that "attract" you to a guy is him paying? also nowadays most girls have jobs, so it's not justified anymore.

[KII-NGH]

Interesting point berethor

[Asker]

Golddiggers and prostitutes only date men for the SOLE purpose of extracting money. pros·ti·tute ˈprästəˌt (y) o͞ot/Submit noun 1. a person, in particular a woman, who engages in sexual activity for payment. a person whose romantic pursuit of, relationship with, or marriage to a wealthy person is primarily or solely motivated by a desire for money Wanting guys to show appreciation by doing things that require money is not golddigging. It's called having high standards. Maybe perhaps you should admit that you're a freeloader. What's the problem with admitting that you're an entitled freeloader?

[Asker]

@VonDamme "men who don't pay "expect sex for nothing", it's imply that you don't enjoy the sex as much, if at all.' I enjoy sex, but only from men who deserve it. Not guys who think they're entitled to freeloading. Why should I settle for a guy who doesn't show much appreciation when there are hundreds of millions of guys who do?

[Berethor]

"Sole" is something that you added, the definition is "engages in sexual activity for payment".

[Asker]

I didn't add it. Look it up yourself.

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gold%20digger

[Berethor]

I see, but still everything is about money, if a guy 'deserve it' depends on his payment, and how much 'appreciation' he shows is always in form of payment, to you.

[Asker]

I don't think everything should be about money. I'm just saying that guys should be willing to put in the effort to win a woman over. I know I would do it if I were a guy. If guys are willing to spend $100 on things they value such as sneakers, a new videogame, or a new tattoo, why can't he take a woman out on a date? If you're broke, that's understandable, but you should at least show her that she's worth it.

[Berethor]

You I would do it if you were a guy? but you can totally do it as a girl as well.

[Asker]

The courtship is a guy thing. The receptiveness is a girl thing. As a guy I would not expect a girl to spend money on me or take care of me.

[Sambivalent]

The media, not that anyone will read this or realize what a role media plays.

But if you do see this: think about it, are women ever not sexualized in media, are men, especially main characters ever denied the admiration of the female characters?

A lot of today's society can be traced back to the media, and yet we let it run rampant and mold more minds to it's values.

I fear to think where it will stop.

[maiave]

What do people mean with “sex for something in return” though? I’m not giving sex for something, I have sex when I want to with who I want to, because I want to?

[i_love_stars]

Exactly

[Asker]

It’s called self-respect. Not giving it up for nothing. If a man wants a prized possession, he needs to work for it. Otherwise, you’re going to be percevived as worthless and “easy”. Have you heard of the saying “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”

[maiave]

Except us women have needs to; I respect myself enough to have sex when I want. It’s kind of low of you to think that less of men; like all they want is sex and nothing more. Dating is not a market, you don’t put yourself up and say “I’ll give you sex if you give me this”. And if it’s a market it’s a mutual one. Reading this, it feels like you’re grown up in those parts of the us where you’re all still about 100 years behind everyone else. It’s really sad that you think of sex as a “priced possession”, something you’re giving up. I feel like you’re one of those women who will end up using sex as a weapon as they get married.

[Asker]

Honey, I'm not attacking you, but the reality is that in life, dating is a transaction. I'm not going to put in the effort to make someone happy if they're not putting in the effort to make me happy. It goes both ways. I don't want to say that every guy is looking for sex and nothing more, but a lot of guys do. Thank God that not every guy is. I would never use sex as a weapon. However, if they're not going to satisfy my needs, why should I satisfy theirs? If I want to be shown appreciation, why do I have to settle for guys who don't when there are millions of guys all over the world who would? Does this make sense?

[MyExBackCoach]

This is a sick question. Guys, if you are with a woman who thinks you have to "earn"... that's right, "earn," physical intimacy with her, you are with a narcissist. Women are not better then you. You should be with someone who wants to have sex with you for you and because they are physically and emotionally attracted to you and doesn't see it as something you have to "earn" with her. Just... wow! She should be passionate about you and desiring you as well or else you have certainly not found the right woman. It should be mutual, beautiful, and not something you have to jump over hoops for. Who would want to be with someone who treats you like some inferior being who has to "earn" her in any way whatsoever? Talk about manipulative!

[Douma]

I know. But yeah. He has no option. He loves her madly. What would you then do in his case. Choose someone else just because it is so holy and have a boring life with someone you do not love?

[motownplayer2000]

Nah, I'd just work hard and have the success I planned on. Women will throw themselves at a man that has money and success. Either way, I'd chase to a point, if it's not leading any where within a reasonable amount of time, I'm done. I agree, if she needs you to earn her and her respect. It should be a two way street. She needs to prove her worth.

[MyExBackCoach]

@Douma Even if I had to be alone for a time, I'm not going to date or consider a romantic future with someone who thinks I have to "earn" sex with her. She's sick and not worth my time. Plenty of others who don't have such a warped view of sex.

[Asker]

If there are millions of real chivalrous men willing to put in the effort to be with her, why should she settle for a guy who thinks he's entitled to it and won't do anything for her? This is a real life economic problem. Why invest in a poor quality product that isn't going to generate much revenue for you when you have millions of other good-quality products that are going to reward your investments? And my question to entitled, men who think that women should given them sex without expecting effort is "What makes you so special that she should settle for you?"

[Berethor]

What make them so special if they paying for a pussy like other 'millions' of suckers?

[TotallyNotJosh]

Guys call label the girls that want that on the first date not if they won't have sex with them it's simple why spend money on a person you're not going to invest in or who won't invest in you? I'll only court a women that I know that I've spent time getting to know and as for the sex side of things it'll happen when they're ready but I will not court a girl that I don't have a connection with that doesn't take an interest in me and simply what a good date in exchange for a fuck idc if girls have easier access to sex in my opinion if it means dodging bullets like that fuck I'll wait years

[TotallyNotJosh]

*wants, I swear my phone changing words is becoming a real problem😂

[10dsw]

I don't expect girls to put out easily at all.

But from experience I'll say that for everyone one girl who expects to be courted, there is another who will gladly spread her legs effortlessly :) So I'd rather go for the second!

[kbbroiler]

Here is the answer. Feminism. That’s right. The fact is you can’t be expected to be treated as an equal and expect special treatment. It’s hypocrisy. Also, the traditional role for men that women expect to keep up has never changed. However, the traditional role of women that what a man expects from a woman has changed. The reasons men were chivalrous pre the 60 era was because men had roles. Men were the protectors, had survival instincts to take care of a family. Women were nurturers and took care of the house and kids. Men worked and took care of things around the house that need fixing and did work outside. Women cooked, did laundry, all the cores in the house. Now feminism has made what women used to do as being sexist. It was never sexist. it was the fact men had roles and women had roles and complimented each other. Now women don’t want to do anything and expect for men to have the same traditional roles as they did back pre 60 era. Does that sound fair to you?

[sugarchateau]

Good thing I read the rest of it before quickly getting annoyed for assuming that another man was just pulling a feminism complaint card. Ladies, read it. It’s a very valid point.

[passinby]

Look, if they don't want any they can leave me alone. Don't give a sht either way.

[AaronKrieger]

Sex isn't just something that should happen because you think someone is attractive. It has more meaning behind it. It should be between two people who love each another and actually are in a relationship/marriage.

[FinalVow]

I wouldn't treat a girl to those things if the plan was to hook up only. If the plan was for us to date then absolutely she deserves a nice dinner and I would bring her flowers and chocolate etc whenever we met up for a date. Same goes for girls taking guys out on a date. though I think most guys don't mind not getting flowers or chocolate. Perhaps soda and chips or something like that. Good luck and Best regards

[DaxandCarmen]

Nothing wrong with it but it should never truly be about how much money someone spends on you. I never had the attitude that if I spent good money on this date I am more likely to get sex. The questions is why are you dating her. Was never about the sex for me

[Annungil]

If you get turned on by guys who happen to have big purse but not by those who can't affort to pay a stranger ecpensive dinners... That is what golddigger actually means, woman who get attracted to mans money not to man himself.

[Asker]

Yeah, I guess under your logic, I should aspire to be with a homeless guy who can't court me. If not, I'm a golddigger. It's sad how guys don't have a problem with being turned on buy hot, beautiful women, yet have something to say when women are turned on by men who can provide for them and spoil them. #Hypocrisy #doublestandard

[Asker]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to date a man who is desirable to you and has financial security. Having one without the other poses significant problems.

[Berethor]

It's not hypocrisy, girls are allowed to be turned on by good looking guys as well. If a woman want a guy to finance her it's shows that he is not independent. Also money is not part of a man.

[Berethor]

I mean "it shows that she is not independent".

[EvanR]

And it's to avoid situations like this is why I contemplate sticking to just me and my right hand

[esparc]

I'm quite sure you wouldn't believe me when I say that sex is the last thing on my mind. I've led a very fortunate life, not that I realized it at the time. I'm quite sure now that when I was growing up I had a few women interested in me.

I'm over 30 now, and I still think that sex the final stage.

[Celtero]

Why must I court a woman? Maybe she should be the one to work hard to earn my dick.

It's a turnoff to me, when a woman has the attitude of "okay, lets see how far he's willing to go to earn the vagina," instead of "I really like spending time with this guy and I'm physically attracted to him. Hopefully we have sex once we feel ready."

[Asker]

Sex is a lot easier for women to find than it is for men. Women are the gatekeepers of sex; men are the gatekeepers of relationships. For that reason, sex isn't something women go above and beyond to get. In fact, some women go above and beyond to get a guy to commit to them.

[AwesomeCookie]

Agreed. Its always 2 sided. Some men & women don't go through the courting motions. Some men have the same perspective as our asker, and expect as such from women, as they should be allowed to. She should work just as hard to impress you!

[Celtero]

Oh... Can't disagree there. I guess I just don't see why women don't have to put in effort to get the relationship part. You say they go above and beyond but it's always the man who has to spend money and perform romantic gestures to gain a woman's affection.

[AwesomeCookie]

No that is not the case. I, as a woman, perform romantic gestures and spend money to gain my man's affection. I won't say I didn't do it without second guessing myself, because I didn't want to come across to him the wrong way because he is very manly and would probably prefer to be the provider of such affections. He wants to open doors for me and such, and I was told by my male coworker to allow a man to do kind things for you if he wants to.

[Celtero]

@AwesomeCookie Hmm... Okay. Was that the case when you were my age as well?

[AwesomeCookie]

@celtero I can say I've matured over time. My expectations of men & view of how women should treat men, and be treated by men has also changed over time and through failed relationships. You truly live & learn.

[ImagineSketchy]

Gatekeepers of relationships? Nani?

[AwesomeCookie]

@ImagineSketchy no I simply just agree with the asker and the other people on this forum 😊

[ImagineSketchy]

What?

[Berethor]

@Celtero She show in immediate interest in 55 years old man only because he said that he would pay, she it most definitely an golddigger, now there is no any doubt lest.

[cherryphi82]

Do they expect sex or do they just want to sext with you? Those are different pairs of shoes. I understand that you might not be comfortable sending nudes of yourself to some random guy you just met, but I'm not sure if in this day and age it is feasible to physically be taken on a date before you go any further. That's not to say you shouldn't get to know them, but the goal posts of "right time" for sex might have to be slightly shifted.

[Eikz1000]

Are you saying sexting is needed prior to meeting in person? I am very new to the online dating world but that seems ridiculous

[cherryphi82]

@Eikz1000 No, I'm not saying it's needed. But it definitely shouldn't be excluded or made contingent upon meeting in person.

[Eikz1000]

Huh, I never thought of sexting someone I hadn't met before. Interesting idea.

[Asker]

I’m just saying that guys shouldn’t feel entitled to have sex or even receive nudes from women without putting effort to get them in the first place. Those things shouldn’t be “givens”. That’s what makes men disrespect women and perceive them as worthless because they’ll think that women are “too easy”.

[Berethor]

By the logic a women who charge men for every sexual act is the most respected. :)

[Dude55]

I treat women on an equal level because, well they're our equals, but let me tell you how many women have took me out to dinner, paid for the date and courted me... zero.

[Unit1]

Marvelous answer.

[babylips14]

Men don't need to be courted. You all value sex more than courtship, right? #evolutionarybiology

[Dude55]

@babylips14 a hell of a lot of women don't need courted but it would still be nice to be asked.

[ADFSDF1996]

There isn’t anything wrong with wanting the feel loved through actions but you have to make sure you don’t offer sex as a reward only, that’s already a red flag that means you don’t actually find him attractive and are only using him for your benefits.

[Asker]

Of course not. I would never have sex solely to extract money from a guy. I just want to be shown appreciation.

[Maik567]

"Again, Why is it wrong for women to expect to be treated generously before hooking up, but not for men to expect sex for nothing?"

Because you are treating sex as something you give to a man. Like it's some sort of a reward only you can offer when it should be mutual. Imagine if a guy acted like towards to you. "I'm not gonna give you dick unless you take me on a fancy dinner" It's ridiculous.

[MyExBackCoach]

Well said.

[Asker]

That's because it is. You do realize how hard it is for men to find sex than it is for women, right? Sex is part of the leverage we have as women. The courting is part of the competition with other men for her, as he is signaling that he is worth being with and, including, having sex with. Why should we settle for men who think they're entitled to it when there are plenty of dudes who will put in the effort to get it?

[Maik567]

No it isn't, are you stupid? The world is becoming more equal every single day, including relationships and courting. And getting sex isn't nearly as hard for men as you seem to think it is as long as they're at least relatively good looking and have some "game". You don't have to settle for anyone at all, but similarly don't expect men to settle for you either when you're basically just as entitled as the guys you whine about. If you think it's a guys job to impress you and throw money at you, that's fine. But more and more guys want a relationship where you both impress each other and it's not as one sided.

[fsu19]

It's not entitlement. I only put someone on a pedestal if we've been together for a while. If not, you're just another human being to me, so why should I court you just for sex? Seems like a waste of time. You can't be treated like a girlfriend in exchange for sex, it doesn't work like that for some guys, especially me.

[Asker]

Okay. I see your point. There's nothing wrong with having your own rules in regards to courtship and wanting to be in a relationship first. My issue is with guys who want girlfriend benefits without giving her boyfriend benefits. If a guy doesn't have courtship standards like you do, he should court a woman if he expects anything sexual from her.

[Berethor]

They give her boyfriend benefits, but those who not include payment for sex.

[fsu19]

Most guys don't care for girlfriend benefits like cuddling and holding hands. They just want sex, which isn't a large part of being a girlfriend and shouldn't be.

[Metaanio]

If you give guy sex because he offered you food, you are using it as commercial good, trading sex for food, market value being price of food.

I believe sex is sharing, so both gives other enjoyment, market value would be 0. And if guy offers food on dates, buys drinks, guy will do much more work for same price. Girls should do some of the work too, I won't date anyone who uses me as a bank account.

[Asker]

WAnting to exchange sexual favors solely for goods is what makes you a prostitute. Wanting to have sex solely to have fun, but desiring to be courted is not prostitution. It’s called having high standards and wanting to be appreciated. No one should ever get something for nothing. I would say the same thing to a guy who was asking why women want to be courted without giving anything in return. I say this because it’s a lot easier for women to find sex than it is for a guy. Therefore, sex is much more valuable to men than it is for women. Women are the gatekeepers of sex; men are the gatekeepers of relationships. You don’t see many male escorts out there, do you?

[Metaanio]

Well, I'm not investing my time to women who isn't interested me. She can freely go for those other guys for easy sex, I'm wouldn't waste my time there. Guys might want relationship, or can get sex from other girls faster. Your thoughts doesn't apoeal to either of these groups, leaving only needy horny guys left, which you probably aren't interested. (Good for you if you are)

[Asker]

Guys can get sex with plenty of girls, even homeless drug addict girls, for free. It doesn’t mean that they’re nearly as desirable or satisfying as women who have high standards and high maintenance. I’m actually looking for a relationship. This question only presents a hypothetical scenario. And believe it or not, many guys do have standards when it comes to sex. Whether they are willing to pay for those standards or not is a different story. That usually depends on the girl’s self-worth as well.

[Metaanio]

Yes, guys have standards on sex, it's just most cases different what you think. There is lots of girls willing to jump in bed who are really nice, hot and succesful, they just don't expect guys to do all work. And hot homeless drug addict might be better option than "high maintenance" girl. Also, those guys who are not after sex have a different standards too, and women who doesn't like them back or want just sex is waste of time for them. Sure there is lots of people not belonging these groups. Some guys are ok with that, some not.

[Asker]

I agree that attractive people can have low standards. There are many hot girls who are willing to hump a homeless, dirty guy, but what does that tell you about her mentality? I don't about you, but I would be turned off by a crazy guy regardless of how hot he is. It's more than just physical appearance to me. But, then again, that's just me. There are girls who only care about a guy's penis size.

[Metaanio]

It is not low standards, it's just different standards. What is low for you could be high standard for others. Homeless drug addict can be cured, but can "high maintenance" attitude be cured? And ONS might not matter at all, because for some, it is just sex.

[bubble_tea]

I don't think that they feel entitled, but they are certainly trying their luck. You want to see how far he'll go. He wants to see how little he can go.

[Eikz1000]

I've never felt the need to put as little effort into anything as possible, especially not a relationship. I find your view point insulting to both genders.

[bubble_tea]

@Eikz1000 Excuse me, have you spend any time in clubs and bars? The uninhibited guys will try to score. Just because you exist, it doesn't mean those guys don't exist. Relationship is a different thing than having sex. The asker never mentioned she wanted a relationship with them. She just wants him to put in effort to get laid.

[Eikz1000]

No I really haven't spent much time in bars or clubs, I've never been one too look for a hookup like that so I guess that's where the disparity comes from

[Eikz1000]

Why don't both parties need yo demonstrate effort to get laid?

[bubble_tea]

@Eikz1000 In Europe, you don't have to look for hookups to go to clubs or bars. You can also just go there to have a drink and dance with your friends. Majority of guys won't bother the women here, because they know most women aren't here to get laid. The smashed ones are the guys who try. Most of the time they aren't successful, but a few get to leave with a woman. If you have to try 20 times to get laid, I do see it as effort. It's just not that much effort put into one woman, but effort spread over 20 women lol Most women don't need to put in effort, because they know they can just walk up to those drunk guys and get laid if they wanted, but it's still no guarantee. I've heard of a woman who has tried to hookup with many of my guy's friends and those guys all pretended that they didn't understand her intentions, because they didn't want to sleep with her. Poor girl.

[Eikz1000]

I've hung out in bars before just to be with my friends or shoot pool but I've never tried to date or hook up with someone there, I understand that not everything has to be about sex it just seems like we have the cultural norm that women are the gate keepers to sex and men have to be the ones to initiate and make their intentions known.

[Asker]

I agree. They trying to see if they can get the most benefits for the smallest cost possible. Sadly, the women who let these kinds of guys get away with it have very little self-worth.

[Berethor]

Or they want a woman who is not with them for a payment, but for other reasons.

[rjroy3]

"To me, a man who chooses the “freeway” shows that he doesn’t value me enough to care to impress me"

Correct. When you first meet. No matter how well you hit it off. He doesn't really no you. So unless you show him something amazing early on. Should he hold you in high value over other women? Even then in my opinion, using money to impress a girl is shallow. Not saying you're shallow, but the premise. Like flashing the fancy watch, having a lambo out front, gloating about a yiat. Saying he'll take you to all these fancy places. That doesn't mean he values you. That simply means this is the only way he knows to get by.

Most girls (who are not gold diggers) in my experience really don't care about you paying or spending money on them. They just want you, your time, attention and the good feelings you give them when you're around. When a guy drops tons of money on a girl who isn't his girlfriend. The vaaaast majority of the time he is just trying to buy her love and I'm confident if you cross a guy like that it will turn you off, even tho you say now these tangible things are what make you feel he cares.

[Asker]

I'm not saying that flaunting money to a girl should be enough to impress a girl and show that he values her, but it should be a part of the package. Golddiggers only have sex JUST for the money. Big difference between a golddigger and a girl who wants a comfortable lifestyle. That being said, the primary objective of sex is to have fun. However, women with self-respect aren't going to share that experience with just anyone who crosses her path knowing that she has plenty of options. Especially if she's hot. If there are guys who are willing to put in the effort to be with her, why should she settle for a guy who thinks he's entitled to it and won't do anything for her? This is a real life economic problem. Why settle for something you don't want when plenty of men can give you what you want? And my question to entitled men who think that women should given them sex without expecting effort is "What makes you so special that she should settle for you?"

[Berethor]

When a girl impressed only by money, she is no different then a gold digger.

[Asker]

@Berethor Golddiggers are impressed by money ALONE. Freeloader.

[Ghost_Woof]

We don't feel entitled. Women just don't speak their minds.

[DamianG]

Personally I don't throw names around but you must have bad luck because I would want to make sure that we both get equal chance in bed even if I had to start.

[Prof_Don]

Because many men feel "if I'm a good man, women should reward me".

Also, we look down badly on women who have sex with men who have bad character traits or don't have much going for them; to a man's perspective, that is seen as "rewarding bad behavior"

[Asker]

I agree. I just don't see why these guys are entitled enough to say that expecting good-quality courtship is prostitution.

[NerdInDenial]

prostitutes exchange sex for money. If gifts and fancy dinners cost money, does that not make women who exchange “gifts and fancy dinners” for sex prostitution? Why does a guy have to spend money? Why not just spend time? Is a man’s time not valuable?

[Asker]

And a woman’s time isn’t valuable? What about all the money she spends on hair, make up, waxing, etc? What makes a woman a prostitute is having sex with a guy solely for the gifts and fancy dinners. A woman who wants to have sex solely to have fun, but wants to be treated with generosity, is NOT a prostitute. It’s a lot easier for a woman to find sex than it is for a guy. So it’s not like he’s giving her anything that special like she is for him.

[NerdInDenial]

Prostitues can have fun too or are you talking about being a sugar baby? So you’re ironically entitled because it’s an honor to sleep with you.

[NerdInDenial]

Why is it always about money?

[Asker]

Not necessarily. A prostitute can theoretically have fun doing what she does, but that’s not her primary objective. Her primary objective is to make as much money as possible. Wanting to have fun and to be appreciated is something completely different.

[NerdInDenial]

A man can have fun with a girl without spending money, right?

[Asker]

To me, a guy who wants the most benefits while lessening the costs is one who doesn’t appreciate the woman he’s sleeping with even if it’s for a one night stand. And like I said, that in itself is a turn off. I being a guy would treat a woman I sleep with to something before or afterwards. Breakfast at least. It would show that I am not a freeloader.

[Asker]

There are plenty of girls who will have sex even with homeless men. Those girls however, have very low standards and are typically not desirable to begin with.

[NerdInDenial]

Can the opposite not be said? How about women who just lead men on just to be wined and dined with no intention of providing any intimacy?

[NerdInDenial]

If we apply the your cost versus benefit in other things in life, it doesn’t make sense. You don’t appreciate a car if you want to pay less for it...

[Asker]

In that scenario, it depends on the intention of both partners. If they’re both looking for serious relationships, I doubt the man is even going to want to sleep with her on a first date to begin with. But, if they’re both looking to have fun, then he is going to get sex regardless. If one is looking to have casual fun, but the other isn’t, then that’s a compatibility issue that should be addressed before even going on a date. otherwise, both people would be wasting their time.

[NerdInDenial]

Actually no; it would be a waste of time for one party in the scenario.

[Asker]

It would be a waste of time for both because the woman would go in thinking that he’s going to give her what she wants which is a ltr, and the guy would go in thinking that she is going to give him what he wants which is a hook up. So it’s a lose-lose for both people. Both people wasted their time and gasoline. The guy may have wasted more on the dinner or whatever they did, but she lost as well.

[NerdInDenial]

No she got a free dinner

[Asker]

She still wasted money, gasoline, make up, hair, etc.

[NerdInDenial]

She would put makeup on anyway anytime she goes out, right?

[Moldovan0731]

Prostitutes usually use make up too.

[Asker]

@Moldovan0731 Lazy, entitled men use gasoline regardless too.

[NerdInDenial]

What does that even mean?