Why do men prioritize sex over love and stability?

[Ninjazzed]

Do men just crave orgasm and the afterglow that comes with it?

Is it the longing that is the fuel for desire? Men’s desire just isn’t layered on emotion.

[MrOracle]

Forget the last 100 years, and think about men's lives over the last 10,000 years. Men frequently died very young, whether it was due to war, hunting, a dangerous job, or being exposed to foreign diseases (men traveled much more than women, and were far more likely to come into contact with strangers, until a few hundred years ago).

Men who didn't reproduce when they were fairly young (late teens or early 20s) would often never have the chance, so evolution made sure that young men had a very high libido. Otherwise, the species might well have died out, as many other humanoid species did. The young male libido is easily among the top 5 reasons that humans still exist today.

And while modern society has changed a whole lot in a the last couple hundred years, scientists say that it takes about 1000 generations (which is roughly 18000-20000 years) for instincts to change noticeably. We've still got the instincts of pre-civilization homo sapiens.

Others mentioned that it's an age thing, and they're largely correct, but it's been made worse by the fact that women changed the rules of society. In the past, you couldn't readily get sex before you were married, and people tended to get married in their teens, and were forced to "grow up" and take on adult responsibilities at an early age. The concept of "adolescence" - a middle period between child and adult - didn't even exist before the 1950s, but today, because of the lower marriage rate and the late ages that people marry (those that do), adolescence is extending into people's mid-20s. It is Feminism that changed these things - particularly Radical Feminism, which has as its primary goal the complete destruction of the nuclear family - and so the struggles you're having in finding emotionally mature, responsible, focused men in their early 20s is simply an unintended consequence of Feminism.

Men largely haven't changed - it's been women, and the rules of society, and the laws that govern them, that has changed. And the fact is that a lot of the changes have made things worse for women instead of better.

[Ninjazzed]

Well I agree with pretty much everything you said except for the part that feminism is the reason for the destruction of society or the nuclear fallout when patriarchy hasn’t exactly been kind or beneficial for either party. The patriarchy has forced men to be providers and to pay for things like alimony and child-support as well as taking care of women. But even men nowadays are consistently discarding this role. You have thirty-something-year-olds taking up spaces in their mom’s basement doing nothing to contribute. I don't get it. At all. It's the big villain of the MGTOW narrative; pretty much every gender issue and a ton of other issues are blamed on the patriarchy; gender roles, the draft, etc. I look at the word: role of men (or fathers). Male authority. But we don't have that right now. A hundred years ago, probably. Women were expected to obey a man just because of the essence or “virtue” of being a man, but not now. Yeah, there might be more men in positions of major power (noticeably more, but not overwhelmingly more), but I wouldn't have authority on account of me being a man. If I was a man, there would still be women out there who are much higher in command. Feminism has actively worked to make women’s’ lives better in several mediums, clearly, as society today is mainly gynocentric. Movies and media no longer include deep-rooted misogynistic themes of men making bets about women or being responsible for the major change in her life. The destruction of the nuclear family has more of a chance of being caused by the drug pandemic and the absence of fathers/mothers in the home. Divorce. Inflation. Having to work 24/7 in order to make ends meet and being forced to order off the dollar menu, not having the time or the energy to cook a family meal. This is what led to the destruction.

[MrOracle]

The marriage rate started falling as Feminism rose in power and influence, and has continued to fall ever since. It was the stated goal of 60s radical feminists (who were actually Marxists using feminism for cover), and many feminist leaders have talked or wrote about it specifically. They don't want ANY woman to be a housewife/stay-at-home mom, even if she chooses to be - they call such women "gender traitors" and slaves. Of course, they're fine with men being "provider slaves", even today. But this is what they think of families:

[MrOracle]

- Gloria Steinem described marriage as “an arrangement for one and a half people.” - Andrea Dworkin wrote, “How can anyone love someone who is less than a full person, unless love itself is domination per se?” - Kate Millett wrote, “so long as every female, simply by virtue of her anatomy, is obliged, even forced, to be the sole or primary caretaker of childhood, she is prevented from being a free human being.” - Betty Friedan wrote, “women who ‘adjust’ as housewives, who grow up wanting to be ‘just a housewife,’ are in as much danger as the millions who walked to their own death in the concentration camps… they are suffering a slow death of mind and spirit.” - Linda Gordon said, “the nuclear family must be destroyed… Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process.” - Robin Morgan said “We can’t destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage.” - Mary Jo Bane said, “in order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them.” - Vivian Gornick said, “being a housewife is an illegitimate profession… The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family maker is a choice that shouldn’t be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that.” - Helen Sullinger said, “We must work to destroy [marriage]… The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men… All of history must be rewritten in terms of oppression of women.”

[RealMarek]

Testosterone is a thing. These differences are a product of evolution. Men historically faced a horrible mortality rate and were driven to reproduce quickly. Many never had the chance - genetic studies indicate twice as many women became mothers as men became fathers.

Women seek stability and commitment because it was necessary in order for them to raise children. In very early societies polygamy was common because women (or their families) would seek top-tier men capable of defending them. This, however, resulted in many frustrated young men. Polygamous societies tend to be very violent and bride stealing was not uncommon in them. Monogamy evolved because it allowed most men to have a wife in exchange for providing the commitment that women sought. It reduced violence to such an extent that it was safer for children overall and better for the propagation of the species than polygamy.

Sexual liberation and feminist dogma has resulted in some strange parallels to early human history. Online dating site data suggests that young women are far more selective than young men. This is hard-wired into them by evolution. With hook-up sites like Tinder, this results in the top-tier men being able to play the field and have sex with many women, most of whom probably want commitment but will not be apt to find it in this manner. Increasingly, many men in their 20s find it difficult to get a date. This might have resulted in increased violence if it were not for the testosterone-suppressing effects of porn addiction, processed foods (tons of soy), and lack of physical exercise. What is certain is that this state of affairs is lowering the fertility rate. It is evolutionarily maladaptive and if it persists the populations or cultures affected by it will be defeated and replaced by those who keep a more traditional sexual morality.

[Ninjazzed]

What about the sex-deprived incels that live in the corridors of Reddit? Pretty sure this isn’t helping the population at all. Also Gen Z is getting stuck with an overwhelmingly high amount of debt and inflation is only getting worse. The minimum wage hasn’t changed for a decade, correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that’s true. So kids would be the last thing on their minds, I’m assuming. It’s no wonder nobody wants to have kids anymore. Back in 1993, it was easy for my dad to hold a simple job with regular hours and even healthcare. It’s impossible to get healthcare nowadays.

[Ninjazzed]

Men in their 20s are always on the market but aren’t exactly sought after because they make terrible providers, granted most of them are still in college or newly gaining financial stability.

[RealMarek]

You asked why men prioritize sex over love and stability, so I emphasized the evolutionary reasons for this and highlighted how recent social changes allow for a reversion to a more primal sort of human sexuality. If you had asked why Gen Z men more immature on average than previous generations at the same age, I would have put more emphasis on something I alluded to when I mentioned the decrease in testosterone levels due to porn addiction, processed foods, sedentary lifestyle, etc. I would have also mentioned economic and social dynamics. The “incel” problem is partially due to the increase in female selectivity made possible by liberation from strong social pressure to marry or at least have a monogamous relationship before sex. This results in a minority of 20-something men who are truly involuntarily celibate, which was very uncommon until the past decade. It is also due to the fact that the developing consumerist lifestyle and economy is damaging to masculinity itself. It has degraded the quality of young men and rendered them less competitive. Multiple destabilizing forces are at work: globalist neoliberalism (consumerism, demoralization of the population, supremacy of global corporations over small business, and concentration of wealth into the elite) is one, the liberation of both sexes from traditional restraints is another.

[Ninjazzed]

You mentioned men in their 20s, as this would pertain to Gen Z. So that’s why I asked.

[Ninjazzed]

The lack of testosterone has increasingly sky-rocketed and this is what’s forced women to become twice more selective. They’re playing “survival of the fittest” and only the fittest and healthiest man can father virtuous children and provide her with the right resources. There have always been incels, we just haven’t noticed it until now because of how universal social media has become in fairly recent years. They have possibly became more ubiquitous, as they can usually be found on Reddit or Twitter, blaming women for their lack of sex lives. They don’t typically engage in traditionally “masculine” activities, and would rather stay glued to their gaming systems instead of hanging outside in the garage, fishing, hunting, etc. Women are attracted to frequently active men, men who are toned and have a decent figure. If I was an expecting mother, I would become vulnerable and would want to have the father of my child to at least have a higher muscle-to-fat ratio, someone strong enough to protect me if something bad was ever to happen.

[RealMarek]

True. The percentage of unfit men and women has increased a lot. These problems will not last forever. Our society will fix them or the fertility rate will continue dropping until we are replaced by a culture that can manage to reproduce.

[backtobasic]

Men don't, society pressures men to because society protrays men as sex animals only. It in the movies, magazines, social media. Men would love to care for someone.

[Ninjazzed]

Yeahhhh.. I’m not buying it. If men felt pressured to be sexual, they wouldn’t constantly try perpetuate the stereotype that they’re all sex-crazed fiends. This is their conscious decision. As we both know that men account for the majority of rapists out there. They constantly crave sex. In reality, we both know there’s a reason society portrays them in this light. Because for a time, their penises do all the thinking for them. And if you speed through the list of comments, you can pretty much confirm this. Hell, general life experiences with boyfriends could have proven that.

[Ninjazzed]

Men don’t rape women because they “care” for them.

[TurboKid]

Of course, it's layered on emotion. It's just a different one as I see it which might want to avoid the complex strings and commitment.

[TurboKid]

I'm not one of those guys but the motivation that caused me to seek out serious relationships and ultimately marriage with my wife was a romantic idea which I think a lot of young guys find cheesy these days. I liked the idea of being a strong man who has a family of his own and protects them. I thought that was the ultimate way to become a great man. For that, needed a serious woman with whom I could get married and have children.

[Ninjazzed]

We need more men like you now.

[TurboKid]

I often fall quite short of my own romantic ideals and far from a great man. It's just that I have some to strive towards beyond satisfying my most basic desires. I think a lot of men these days seem to be losing or lacking such ideals. A person with no guiding moral principles and no romantic ideals will tend to favor satisfying their most immediate, short-term desires over long-term ideals (ex: frequently favoring fast food to healthy if someone lacks discipline or a romantic ideal of a healthy body for themselves). I think one of the problems is that a lot of the romantic ideals that guided men in the past towards commitment over promiscuity and protecting women instead of exploiting them have become increasingly unpopular and under attack. They can be considered anywhere from totally lame/outdated to outright toxic. And there were some elements of the style of classically masculine ideals that largely guide me which veered towards toxicity, like chauvinism and homophobia which should be corrected. Yet I think instead of making those minor corrections, we inadvertently threw the baby out with the bathwater leaving a bunch of confused men without romantic ideals to strive for, at which point it makes sense to me that they reach for what they most instinctively understand which is their lust for women and desire to have them all.

[NamerOfStars]

And women's emotion just isn't layered on desire. There's a reason we refer to "the opposite sex" and not "the other sex". In this case, it's because the heavy bonding hormones that you guys need to release to have sex, we need to have sex to release.

[ChrisMaster69]

I cannot have simply sex, there needs to be a strong emotional attachment to make the sex worthwhile.

So while not always love, you need that connection in place first.

[summiter]

I think it depends on their age and their life plans. Younger guys just want/need tons of sex. As they get a bit older love etc. come into play.

[Ninjazzed]

Guessing I should either wait or date women.

[summiter]

I hear you. Do what you like... life is short!

[EmbraceThePain]

Biology, really

[Lynx122]

They don't have a choice it's hormones. There's like a haze over your mind and you think you're making rational decisions but you're not and you only notice it once it starts to lessen. My mind is more binary so it was just horny or not horny like a switch, well it wasn't exactly like that it still had an effect on me but I think it lessened it a bit. There are some women who have to take testosterone for medical reasons and they're the only ones who can really understand what it's like :P

[Ninjazzed]

Right, but are you saying men lack the mental capacity to control their urges?

[Ninjazzed]

It should be a conscious decision to avoid the urge and take steps to control it. My ex would always let his boner go down because he was very firm about not engaging in masturbation. This caused a lot of semen retention.

[Lynx122]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Guys do control their urges constantly but if something is affecting your mind the way you see things you can't control that. It's like emotions. A lot of people might think they're acting rationally when they're acting because of emotions. But they might only realize that later. A guy is aware that he's horny but it's hard to know how much it's affecting you. Like if you were high for 15 years straight you would just think that this is normal life and only when you sobered up would you notice oh I actually need less sleep now, I'm more active and energetic etc. Your hormones affect you too without you knowing it it just doesn't stand out as much to others.

[kkirk4442]

Men's sexual desire is easily aroused, and can easily happen without emotional attachment. However, men with greater understanding and insight, know that sex is better with an emotional attachment, especially if love is involved. And men can, if they choose, be very emotionally involved when having sex.

[GingerGuy]

I think men and women are different this way. For guys (some at least), part of feeling that love and stability comes with sex. The intimacy that goes with it, leads to it. Where women are the opposite, sex comes after.

[Celtero]

Here we go again. Most women don't have all that much to offer except for sex. You say women are the gender of "love and stability" except for some reason they love divorce.

[Ninjazzed]

Yeah, I don’t think so. “Most women don’t have all that much to offer except for sex”, so by that logic, what else to men have to offer except for money? Since they can’t seem to fulfill women or themselves emotionally or sexually? It’s not that women don’t have anything else to offer, it just the only thing you want them to offer, it’s what men actively seek from women. It’s the only thing that interests YOU. Yes, while it is true that women are more prone than men to report discontent in marriage, men are more likely to have thoughts of divorce and committing infidelity. Clearly no one is going to stay in a loveless marriage, men probably can, but most women prefer not to. Nobody “loves” divorce. So you’re saying that someone should be forced to stay with someone they don’t love? Someone that can’t make them happy?

[Celtero]

The number 1 way women get rich is through divorce. Women initiate divorce something like 50% more often than men. In all my days and throughout all my hobbies the majority of people I've met are men. Doesn't matter if it's bowling, paintball, hunting and shooting, gaming, herping, whatever. Women make up something like 2% of any interesting hobby or profession and it'll have you feeling like the population ratio is at least three guys for every one or two girls. It has me figuring women must spend their free time sitting at home on social media or going shopping. When it comes to politics they have the dumbest views that you'd expect children to have. Their taste in music is shitty mainstream overproduced crap. So what else do you really think there is to offer besides pussy? Hanging with dude friends satisfies all social, intellectual, and emotional needs. So I guess at least women can take care of the sexual needs as long as they're not fat and gross.

[Ninjazzed]

You’re a typical chauvinist pig that loves to generalize, I see. Women don’t get “rich” off of divorce unless alimony is approved. But it must be proven in court that she makes significantly less than him to be eligible. How far does your insanity border on defending misogyny? Or do you just have a feminist fixation? You clearly know nothing about women, it’s almost as if you’re still going by those three women you hooked up with in the 90s. Hanging with women covers the same needs for us, so what’s your point? Why should we prioritize you over a dildo? I don’t have to cook or clean for a dildo, and it doesn’t complain. It requires very little maintenance. Like I said, the same can be applied to women. Women don’t need men really unless they need children, and even that’s being generous. Women have IVF and artificial insemination. Remind me why we need you again? “I guess at least women can take care of the sexual needs as long as they're not fat and gross.” Easy for you to say when you don’t have any slim pickings, we’re the one stuck with the disgusting slobs and 30-something-year-old incels that rot in their mom’s basement. The projected growth for women in STEM and for female CEOs is going to continue to skyrocket within the next several years. I went to a college that had a 3:1 ratio of women to men. They were mentioning this in orientation like, "Good news, guys. There are 3 women for every man here." Some guy in back yelled out, "What if I don't like my three?" Kinda became the slogan for a while. This isn't just slight. A baby girl born in 2016 will be 75% more likely to go to university than a boy, if current trends continue. So I don’t really get why you keep saying women hold less interesting jobs than men when men are usually the ones handling sanitation or labor-intensive work that doesn’t really require skill or a college education. Whatever helps you cope, though.

[Ninjazzed]

You’re a man, you’re going to meet other men in your lifetime and it’s very rare that you will gather female friends. But since you made it clear that you only view women as sex objects and not individuals, you probably wouldn’t make very many female friends that hold the same interests because you’re a massive cunt.

[Ninjazzed]

“Childish” would be a term to describe your reading comprehension skills, for example. I can tell you just pulled those numbers out of your ass.

[BoshoM]

in my personal opinion, we do that for 2 reasons only:

1- we just want only sex from the partner, not a relationship
2 - for some its away for expressing love and affection.

its either we care or don't, believe me there's no gray area in between

[Agape93]

Instant gratification

[FunkyMonkee]

I don't! I focus on the love! Sex is kind of an added attraction.

[Ninjazzed]

This probably has a lot to do with your age lol.

[FunkyMonkee]

I'm not so sure. Sure, I've always been horny from about 12 onwards but, even then, I'd still have rather had a relationship than just a quick fuck! When I was 12, I started going to a brand new school! It was JUST built and we were the first class to use it! I went to lunch one day and spotted this girl, Emily Swank and I fell MADLY in love with her on sight!!! I didn't even know what sex was for another 3 years!! (I used to think I had to put my dick in a girl and then pee in her! I had NO CLUE my dick had another function until I was a sophomore!!) Anyway, I STAYED madly in love with her for the next 13 years until I met my first girlfriend!! I still think of Emily and wonder how she's doing and did she ever have a thing for me but, I haven't seen her since we graduated! Last I heard, she got married to some guy from school that I never knew existed! So, I seriously doubt it was EVER about sex with me, it was more about love.

[Ninjazzed]

No idea, maybe it’s just something that’s no longer conditioned in men. You say age doesn’t play a factor but taking everything you just said into consideration, it sounds a lot like it. Back then, marriage was almost romanticized compared to how avoided it is now.

[Ninjazzed]

Love is usually a secondary desire for men. Commonly put on the backburner in exchange for sex. Maybe there are exceptions to the rule.

[FunkyMonkee]

Yeah, I'm one of the exceptions. A few years ago, a girl that I already fucked several times 30 years before told me she wanted me, she wanted to be my girlfriend! I gave the relationship a chance and, one day, she came to my place and we went up to my room to have sex! As much as I WANTED to, nothing happened, on my end! Reason: I just wasn't in love with her anymore! I had serious crush on her 30 years before and when her boyfriend left her, we had a nice fling but, after 30 years away from her (and 10 of those being with another girl), I just didn't feel that way about her anymore! If a gorgeous, sexy young girl walked up to me right now and said, "LET'S FUCK!!", without being in a serious relationship with her, I doubt I COULD!

[Shoichiro]

What other reason is there for a man to find a woman specifically (rather than another man) to be your partner? The only things a woman can do that another man can't are sexual (which includes giving birth).

What is love and stability in this case? In this case, love means caring for someone in the sense that you're concerned for their wellbeing. Again, why would a man look specifically for a woman for love and stability when another man can do that (e. g. a friend)?

Therefore it is rational for sexual reasons to be the deciding factor, because otherwise there will be no reason to have a bias between men and women because there are no other ways these genders are different; the only remaining factors, such as personality, are within individual people.

If you disagree I invite you to respond and tell me where I'm wrong. Also, try to understand what I am saying instead of assuming that I'm just an angry man that hates women or something else ridiculous.

[Ninjazzed]

Well, first off, it’s ludicrous to assume a relationship with someone primarily for sex, because sex alone isn’t going to make a relationship last. Sooner or later, there’s going to be a breaking point if you lack the emotional intelligence to understand someone. When there’s confusion, then conflict arises. Because there are women out there who actually like all the “relationship stuff” and mutually enjoy spending time with men and talking to men they care about and don’t consider the words she says to be “nagging” because let’s be real, the only types of men who label communication as “nagging” aren’t in a healthy relationship at all and expect women to hand them constant sex and leave them alone. Women are out to find relationships with those men. Some men pretend to care about women more than they do then get mad when they’re expected to keep up the act I guess? They’re bad for lying. I don’t like soccer and I wouldn’t pretend to like it to get with a soccer enthusiast. I now either have to live a lie, which will build resentment on my part, or admit I lied, which will cause him to resent me. It’s like you’re seriously asking women to fuck guys and not talk to them. That’s ridiculous.

[Ninjazzed]

Straight men cannot reach intimacy fulfillment with other men. Why would they? They militantly oppose themselves in this fashion.

[Shoichiro]

I said it is rational for sexual reasons to be the deciding factor, NOT the primary factor. A man can like a woman's personality, but what is the reason for him to go further than just calling her a very good friend if he isn't sexually attracted to her? I don't see the need for him to want to be her boyfriend or husband or anything equivalent if he will not be having sex with her (either because he doesn't want to or she doesn't want to). Deciding factor in this sense means that all other criteria have been met (compatibility) and sexual reasons were the factors that made him choose a woman over a man (because sexless relationship could be the equivalent of having a friend). I am very aware that there are women that enjoy "relationship stuff" because otherwise they wouldn't see men as shallow for prioritizing sex. The thing is, a lot of men already have friends that they spend time with and enjoy spending time with because what they do is more fun than what they'd do with a woman, e. g. cuddling is something that some men find boring unless they're touching a woman in places they find arousing (and what they do with their male friends is possibly cheaper because men pay for a woman more often than not e. g. some women like expensive food and the man pays). I agree with what you said in your 4th paragraph. I suspect the reason a lot of men fall into this is because what the man is interested in is usually what a woman typically isn't interested in, so there are little or no common interests. In this case, the men that feign interest in the woman's interests are more likely to get a woman. And this is not uncommon and is partly due to genetic differences in men and women. I appreciate the points you brought up. Also try and address this: If men and women are identical (except for differences in gender), why would a man go out to look specifically for a woman if NOT for sexual reasons?

[Shoichiro]

Correction: primary factor and deciding factor have the same effect, I meant to say that deciding factor (or primary factor) does not mean it is the only factor. But just like how a plant needs water and sunlight, a man probably requires sexual reasons and a compatible personality in the woman for a lasting relationship. Some just feign the personality so that it will work (althoughit won't be genuine).

[AmeerX]

I prefer stability and love

[Caliguy88]

I don’t think I do, but everything in balance.

[dudeinohio]

Love and stability come first to me.

[COMMODOREII]

Tbh. I am a guy that values the heart. Yes i have had my hormones go wild as a teen and during my 23rd year i finally couldn't take it anymore finally expressed my wild side. But the truth is i yearn for the touch of a woman and her heart. The bond we can create in not only sex and intimacy but trust, loyalty and love. For me i need a stable almost spiritual union with my other half. I hope one day that girl or woman will want me and want the same from me. For us to grow in union and understanding. To never want to be a part. Do you look for the same?

[LogicBomber]

Because unlike women, we get dopamine (happy drug) from sex
women get oxytocin (bonding drug) from foreplay, sex, and orgasm.

[Ninjazzed]

Both women and men get equal amounts of dopamine and oxytocin with orgasm, actually.

[LogicBomber]

actually you are completely wrong. Women get oxytocin in bursts during arousal, penetration, and orgasm and estrogen enhances its affects. Men get a small amount during orgasm and testosterone nullifies it affects.

[Ninjazzed]

No, I’m not actually.

This source is justifiable that you’re incorrect:
www.webmd.com/.../how-the-love-hormone-works-its-magic

That we feel pleasure before, during, and after sex is a necessary part of reproduction.

This is dopamine. Both women and men experience it during sex.

The neurotransmitter dopamine is produced in response to sexual stimulation, and thanks to dopamine, we really do feel enjoyment.

[Pterodon]

At your age all we want is pussy anyway we can get it

[Ninjazzed]

But why? Why not both?

[Pterodon]

Not how our brains are wired. All we want at your age is to fuck.

[2021biguy]

I value love and caring more than anything else but still love sex with a cute girl that loves me.