Sexual Relationships 
Sexual Health Has feminism made attempting to talk to/date a woman harder for men?
Anonymous
First disclamer: I mean post-modern feminism, not 1960's-70's feminism. Second disclamer: I'm NOT posting this to HATE or belittle womens rights or equality so PLEASE I ask that you do the same and respect others opinions. I hope we can have a meaningful DISCUSSION about this and not an argument about how stupid someone or one side or whatever is. I ask this question because I as a male sometimes feel as though men in general have to walk through a minefield when talking to women, at least initially. Thats not to say I don't feel confident in my ability to talk to women or ask them out. As a man even though I know I am a good person and I know I'm not some horrible monster, I feel as if men are far far too often demonized by feminism and its inaccurate statistics about rape and such. Maybe this is just me but when I walk around the store I work in, I honestly get a little worried that if I happen to accidently bump into a woman the wrong way while trying to ween my way through customers, she could claim I touched her innapropriately and get me fired with little to no chance of being able to defend myself. IDKY but I feel like this carries over to initiating a conversation with a girl you find attractive, that they could see it as, why is this stranger talking to me? is he going to rape me? kinda deal. NOW that being said I don't know what women think lol. I just feel like I can't be the only one who has this feeling. I mean I'm sure I'm probably not even explaining this correctly and some people will take it the wrong way. what I'm trying to get at is, has feminism demonized men to the point where it has made it more difficult for guys to initiate conversation with a girl they find as a potential mate? (err I think thats what I'm getting at). I mean just take a second and really really think about it, the way the media seems to demonize men, men do this and that and this bad thing, has male shaming gone too far? (more to come in an update).
Updates:
+1 y
once again I know this sounds like another one of those "why feminism is bad" questions but I don't intend it that way. what I'm try to get at is I feel as a male that feminism makes me feel bad for rape even though I have and never will rape someone. that carries over to dating. What if she thinks I'm going to rape her or something? if she does and she tells someone, socially if not legally (?) I'm screwed. Once again I might not be explaining correctly what I'm trying to get at.
+1 y
Also YES I know that initiating conversation with someone you find attractive is nerve racking for anyone, and would make anyone nervous etc etc... I was just leaving that out because it seems like a given.
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What Girls & Guys Said
30 44I think feminism has to some extent demonized men in its efforts to highlight their reasons for wanted "equality". The rape culture is the biggest example of this. Whether it was intentionally done or not.
But I also think that there's a reason it's stuck around and has had such a huge effect on the way women conceive men (strangers) to be exact. It's because the fear is real and has always been. Personally, I'm always cautious when I go out alone or am walking somewhere alone. But that doesn't mean that if a guy came up to me to ask me something, I'd yell rapist.
"I ask this question because I as a male sometimes feel as though men in general have to walk through a minefield when talking to women, at least initially"
This true. But I don’t think it's because of feminism, but this sense of entitlement that some women have.
Perceive men*
good answer, thank you for it!
MHO material right here
"But I don’t think it's because of feminism, but this sense of entitlement that some women have." Totally agreed. I think I have feminism to thank for the many girls who approached ME in college. What they are doing now, regarding the demonization of male sexuality, has gone completely out of control now.
I am not trying to start a fight, but that is probably going to be the end result and I apologize in advance. 80% of all assault/mugging/murder victims are males. 50% of all domestic violence victims are men, same goes for rape victims according to the CDC and FBI (slightly less then half technicly but that is also due to social pressures) and more then 75% of rapes if you count prison rape. "boys are not allowed to hit girls" is what most men are raised with, it being a social taboo. Yet the opposite is not trye for women, that is, it is perfectly exceptable for a woman to hit a man. EX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks
The reason women FEEL afriad is because there body is there barganing chip when it comes to selecting a mate, its also the reason why men are more concerned about being robbed (despite women being much more likely to be robbed) is because there resources are there barganing chip when it comes to mate selection. I know it is unfashionable to view humans as animals, but it explains much.
@hellionthesage Interesting statistics... No, I don't count prison rapes. I believe everyone should defend themselves if they're health is being compromised. "The reason women FEEL afriad is because there body is there barganing chip when it comes to selecting a mate" I'm sorry, but this is bull. I feel afraid because I'm afraid of getting hurt and being in pain. I don’t want to be violated. If I ever run across a rapist or murder, I will try to escape because I want to live another day. The female body could be a bargaining chip when it comes to mating but that’s not why I'm afraid. I'm not a guy, but I'd think they were afraid to lose money because they worked hard to earn it. Maybe it is to attract a mate.
Of course your afraid of being injured or harmed, everything is, what I was reffering to was the to be perfectly honest, paranoia that women have verses the fact that men despite being the victim of violence 80% of the time are not all that concerned. We do not cross to the other side of the street when we see someone we don't demand stricter laws or carry mase or anything of that nature even though statisticly speaking we have more of a reason to then women. Mean while a man will be more preoccupied of being swindled/robbed/scammed then a woman despite the fact that a woman is far more likely to have these things happen. This is because men are providors (resource) and women are nurturers/birthers (body) so from a biological stand point we have evolved to be overly concern with these things rather then other much more likely situations. Take this site for example, you will notice the overwhelming questions from women who are incredible self concious about there bodies
one was convinced she was unattractive because of her calfs, HER CALFS! I don't know any man who has ever appraised a women based off of her calfs in the entirety of my life yet there it was, a woman convinced that apart of her body was defective and therer fore was undatable (she was fine). The point is if you actually start to pay attention to these things you do notice this trend. Biology drives it, again I know we like to pretend the human species is some how above our biology but we really are not. It may not be all we are, but it is the very solid foundation of which all else is built.
"I know we like to pretend the human species is some how above our biology but we really are not. It may not be all we are, but it is the very solid foundation of which all else is built." I don’t ignore it. I guess the dangers/or things we pay more attention to are biologically driven. Your right about the paranoias ^_^ Explains all the dick questions too.
No most feminists still date men unless they are lesbians. Maybe you are just kind of a creep , or just don't know how to talk to women. And no feminsts don't spend all of their time demonizing men, only a few of them hate men with such a passion
I wasn't aware that not knowing how to talk to women made you a creep. FYI most girls don't have a clue.
Most women result in trying to attack you in some form if they can't accept a negative criticism, they think as a whole. So, she probably "felt" you were insulting her.
not really. I'm just stating most feminists are straight and it takes two to tango. And well a lot of girls dont know how to flirt but thats younger girls.
Not the one's I've met and also the most I've run into do hate men and are quite vocal about it. Though I guess we tend to ignore what we don't want to see.
Every movement has extremists pro choice people have extremists, muslims have extremists, and feminists have extremists. Its just an ugly part of reality. I'm a feminist and I actually love men , except the creepy neighbors that hit on me relentlessly .
Your views do not change what I see and what is shown by these women, this is a concept I see that most of you can wrap your head around.
can't wrap*
This is really embarrassing, do you expect me to take your opinion seriously if you aren't smart enough to use an internet browser with spell check considering it is 2015. Clearly feminism isn't the main cause of your problem with women.
That's grammar check, dipshit.
I understand what you're saying.
Wrt what you've said, I think feminism has just focused attention on things that always concerned women but not really men. What really makes things awkward is the actual rapists and the (small amount of) people who make false rape claims (they do exist).
I do think that feminism has made it harder in that it has deliberately destroyed the 'normal' way of courting. Men still are expected to take the initiative during dating because of womens natural preference for confidence and dominant men but are uncertain what to do. If we open a door for a woman, she may smile or slap us across the face. If we insist on paying, we could be called a gent or a condescending pig. Before, dating was almost standardised. Now there's a lot of confusion. My issue with feminism is that it keeps telling men what they SHOULD'NT DO as opposed to what they SHOULD DO.
No. It's only hard if you're trying to talk to a feminist.
I don't know if the quantities of false rape claims are as common in the West as people make it seem, but that part certainly is pretty bad. If people were a slight bit more mature about the situation, this could be potential for social development - people primarily getting to know each other as people, and naturally develop to want to have sex with each other, rather than getting together with the intention of somehow having sex in the end! The order of the goal is different. But considering physical attraction is a driving force in interest towards getting to know someone, this is more a guideline than an actual thing.
Anyways, I actually do agree; feminazis (the rabid "feminists" who think if you actually bump into them then you are trying to rape them) are fascinating in the sense that they are more sexist than the `men` whom they are trying to fight. Luckily, I don't *think* they are the majority, and the people that are like that are pretty damn broken from the core. That's why they lack social awareness and live in a conceptual world that tells them everyone with a penis is "bad". These people are immature, and do not deserve the power they have with false claims.
good answer!
*opinion*
Sure it has. It has told women that traditional relationships are a sign of an old fashioned and weak woman. Gone are the days when women and men work toward a life together. Yep. Feminism in its current incarnation isn't really in a woman or a mans best interests.
Feminism has convinced all the 5's and 6's that they're 9's and 10's.
No online dating has turned men into wimps.. hiding behind their computer screens..
and some would say it has made women incredibly picky... doesn't mean its true for everyone.
women are always picky, they must select the best genes in men..
How has it turned them into wimps?
they can't possibly know the best "genes" in a man. Sure they can see that he's got certain hair color, eyes, maybe tall, muscular, and good looking but it doesn't mean they can know he has a family history of heart disease or Alzheimers or anything like that.
The ratio is still about1:1 so women being picky causes problems for both sexes eventually
How does it turn them into wimps? How does that work exactly? And why is it automatically men's fault as if women are ineffectual and without involvement in society? What if being emotionally damaged by their experiences with women made them wimps first, which then pushed them into online dating? Or maybe the emotional damage pushed them straight into online dating and the "wimp" part is just in your head.
Can't argue that
It's easier for guys to use but hasn't turned us into whimps. All I'm saying is, most of the time I've gotten a women in public is when she approached me first. Generally, a girl gets creeped out by a random guy approaching her, regardless of what he has to say.
wimps.. because men no longer need to approach women and can hide safely behind their screens.. its pretty clear.. this is not a good situation for women either.. and people become 'throw away'
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Not in Sweden, the forerunner of feminism.
"Girls, don’t read anything into it if the guy doesn’t pay, you’re expected to split the bill in the name of equality."
www.swedishloveaffair.com/.../
Sweden has the highest false rape accusation count in the world. I think it's ironic that the forerunner country for feminism has this problem
@thatkaruguy I'm curious. How do you know for a fact that those were indeed false rape accusations? Were you there to witness them all?
You mean or can't trust government agencies that deal with domestic affairs as their job?
I*-++++
@thatkaruguy I'm asking if you have a statistic that verifies that Sweden has the highest false rape accusation count compared to other countries.
here ya go https://falseallegations.wordpress.com/
@thatkaruguy and where exactly does it say "Sweden has the highest false rape accusation count in the world compared to other countries"?
its in one of the first paragraphs "weden has the highest rate of reported rape in the world, 46.5 cases per 100,000 people, almost twice that of England & Wales. But it also has a low conviction rate: around 10% of cases reported in Sweden end in convictions. In general, there is a roughly inverse relationship between the reported rape in individual countries and the proportion of these reports that end in conviction."
@thatkaruguy I see. It seems the conviction rate for burglaries is about the same. The main reason being.. Well, just because they didn't get convicted doesn't mean they were innocent, only that there was not enough proof. If there are no injuries, because she was unconscious, you can only prove they had sex, but not if it was consensual or not. Usually you don't rape others in front of witnesses so it's word against word. You can't send someone to jail based on word accounts.
I like the direction Sweden goes with some of the stuff. But other parts seem outright Victorian to me, like how actually going up and talking to a girl is "too forward". You have to look at each other for a couple seconds, and magically understand that that means to dance. Also, Sweden has the highest rape rate in Europe, IIRC, so this would also increase the number of false accusations. The reason for this, actually, is the large influx of people from the Middle-East, who commit most of the rapes. Exclude them, and the rate is one of the lowest. This isn't a racial thing or anything, it's culture shock when going from the most sexually-restricted society on the planet to the most sexually-liberal.
@OpenClose I'm kind of disappointed to see that you also bought into those anti-migration mantras. Sweden is not the West European country with the largest Muslim population in count or as a percentage of the whole population.
Hmm, I suppose that's true. I've just seen a lot of articles on places like Psych Today that talk about it.
@OpenClose I've also read that women can actually tell if a guy is a cheater and guys can't. If you see the numbers of the studies, they are still wrong 40% of the times as opposed to 80% of the time. It's still almost equal to tossing a coin. And the reason behind is even more ridiculous. So it really doesn't mean too much if you've read it on Psych Today if you haven't read the actual study. If you're interested in the other reasons, you can PM me.
Not really. You must be talking about the extreme Tumblr feminist
I just announce that I am a straight white Christian male and all the feminists come talk to me. They never have anything nice to say though.
Hayles, N. Katherine. Gender Encoding in Fluid Mechanics: Masculine Channels and Feminine Flows. 1992. Print.
not to be lazy but.. quick synopsis?
Read the title.
No not really
Only if the guy's intending on treating her like second grade poop
i say it has as nowadays women do expect too much from the men they date and of course who else is a fault for this except feminism? or i could be wrong, it might just be the social media
i think feminism is part of the reason why men are approaching women less today, because the dynamics men are use to between the sexes are changing. There's also a hyper-sensitivity towards approaching women, because everything is seen as street harassment these days, so instead of dealing with all that, some men just choose to not take the risk.
Umm i think so
Nah i'm a feminist and honestly it shouldn't get in the way of your relationships. If you're a feminist, fine. But don't be an annoying bitch about it. Im sure your partner doesn't like being called all the names under the sun just because he's a man. You're likely to lose him.
The thing that makes it hard for guys is the creepy dudes who don't know any better messing it up for other dudes.
Have posted this article before , definitely relevant for this post. I think because men are painted as sexual deviant predators by " society " , this has been the male reaction. Apologies in advance , ladies , there are quite a few comments sniping at women , but nothing approaching the thermonuclear hatred the feminazis spew at men... most want all male humans exterminated.
edumckaytion.com/blog/men-notice-women-anymore