How do you feel about evolutionary psychologists saying that men are naturally inclined to commit violence and rape?

Question

There's a stereotype about feminists viewing men as naturally inclined to commit violence and rape. There are indeed some radical feminists who feel that way, but I've seen that idea espoused much more by evolutionary psychologists. I haven't noticed as much outcry against it, though. Some examples:

"You Should Know How The Male Brain Reacts To Handling A Gun: The evolutionary psychology of mass shootings." Frank T. McAndrew, Professor of Psychology, Knox College
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/young-males-guns-psychology_n_566226e4e4b08e945fefae4c

"A Natural History of Rape: Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion is a 2000 book by the biologist Randy Thornhill and the anthropologist Craig T. Palmer, in which the authors argue that evolutionary psychology can account for rape among human beings, maintain that rape is either a behavioral adaptation or a byproduct of adaptive traits such as sexual desire and aggressiveness, and make proposals for preventing rape." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Natural_History_of_Rape

"Although they argue that rape is biological, Thornhill and Palmer do not view it as inevitable. Their recommendations for rape prevention include teaching young males not to rape, punishing rape more severely, and studying the effectiveness of "chemical castration." They also recommend that young women consider the biological causes of rape when making decisions about dress, appearance, and social activities."
https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2000/01/17/93527.htm

How do you feel about evolutionary psychologists saying that men are naturally inclined to commit violence and rape?

So do you find these claims by evolutionary psychologists to be offensive?

HiveBee · Accepted Answer

Radical feminists aren't exactly scientifically rigorous.

But, real scientists have made the same claim.

Hopefully I saved the links I was reading at home.

Basically humans can be more like chimpanzees, who are patriarchal and brutal and violent, or Bonobos, who are matriarchy and non violent and do a lot of fucking.

The claim is that rape is in our biology. What if we are closer bonobos than? We already know human sexuality is nothing like any other animal.

Anyways there's research done as a direct investigation of the claims OP posted.

These scientists however included women. Who for example looked at chimpanzee "rape." Male scientists thought the Male chimps only raped.

But female scientists recognized that female chimps are more or less into it and playing a bit of a game.

They then analyzed chimp rape and human rape and they are polar opposites.

Well anyways, there is no "truth" that anyone really knows. its all speculation and theory.

I dont get mad at all. Why? I will take in any view qnd analyze it and understand it. No reason to get mad.

Another example is pit bull dogs. Supposedly aggressive beasts. Yet pit bulls raised for fighting and killing have been turned into therapy dogs.

So even in a dog, we know have the potential for great aggression, is entirely dependant on its environment.

Which personaly leads me to wonder, why do men commit violence and rape? Are we really abused dogs lashing out? Is society doing something to us men to make these things happen? We can't accept any idea such as that though. That would imply that despite men having more money and women suppressed, there must be something sneaky and sinister going on.

Well we can't believe anything like that because feminism demands it.

So than we believe the cause of Male rape, if not caused by environment, it must be caused by Gene's and biology.

But as with the dog. We see that biology argument is nonsense.

So what's the truth? Who knows.

I'llcome back later and post the links I hopefully saved at home.

N192K001 · Accepted Answer

Offended? No. Agree? No , they have some things right, but some wrong. Animals rape.  In fact, 「 rape is common in the animal kingdom 」. Examples:  (seals raping penguins)  (dolphin-rape)  (re-definition of 'rape' as a human-only crime, so that orangutans are not raped)  (sterilized, less-graphic depiction of fig-wasps, whose entire reproductive-system relies upon the mass-rape of the yet-unborn)  (intro: otters raping seals… to death)  (the graphic peer-reviewed research-paper with pictures: otter raping seals to death) That is why we HUMANS need culture, morals/ethics, self-restraint/-discipline, and the intentional drive to ever-improve ourselves to cultivate virtue : to override our animalistic nature, to stay civilized, and to become better people.

Tara016 · Accepted Answer

Actually, this would relate to Freud's theory on sexual aggression within people in general. While it has some truth in it since that we're sexual beings, I believe it can be controlled by both society and each individual.
However, one must remember that men are born with a primitive instinct that urges to reproduce.
We're not born monogamists but we work on following it for marriage as civil society and religions may demand in general. That shows how, primitively, there is a need for many partners to "breed" and repopulate. It can't be denied.
Yet, that instinct being within can still be controlled by choice which is why a man cannot be excused if he raped. He would have made that choice.
However, I disagree on labeling men as rapists who just want to breed around.
First, the people speaking of this are feminists who clearly seek to make women appear as better versions of humans which I highly disapprove of. This would be acting like men dominant society did before women rights.
Second, psychologists are still arguing about it so it isn't official or even agreed upon which brings the controversy.
Thus, one cannot start labeling men as the sexual monsters and live in paranoia.
There are women who rape, mind you, they are capable of it, but it isn't as common as for men doing it.

What can be done is as mentioned: warning about the wrongness of rape and making sure punishment for rape is severe so people aren't tempted to do it.

Chemical castration is debatable in my opinion but that's another story.

On a side note, I don't believe most men would rape just like many women wouldn't. It's usually done by people with a mental illness and outlaws. Rarely do we find it in people from everyday backgrounds.

Of course, everyone is capable of doing it but not anyone would do it, there's a difference.

If it wasn't obvious yet, I disagree with this claim.

SomeBlondeChick · Accepted Answer

Evolutionary psychology is a farce. They are a spin-off from the evolutionary biologists during the 18th century that promoted racism, the superiority of the white race, etc. These evolutionary biologists back in the day reasoned that blacks having a differently ratioed skull as an example explained their inferiority, etc.

And evolutionary psychology follows a similar mentality. Like those older evolutionary biologists, it is more a fake science than real science.

It tries to rationalize the ***simplicity*** of evolution - and evolution is simple from a psychology standpoint every animal from a dung beetle to a blue whale follows the same ideas (eat, mate, keep from being someone else's lunch) - into something far more complex and why like their forerunners in those mentioned evolutionary biologists they fail.

From an evolutionary psychology standpoint let's look as something other than rape. They say that people all feel the same emotions. But we feel them for different reasons. I have no fear of snakes, plenty of people do.

Their fake science is a wide useless generalization. Like saying deer herds and wolf packs are the same because they move in groups. They're not. Not just because of prey and predator. But because deer herds are simplistic associations. Very simple. In comparison, the complexity of a wolf pack makes them geniuses.

zeitgeist057 · Answer

I agree, because science.

Humans have this fantasy that they are not animals, but they are.

Animals (humans included) got to where they are by being ruthless killers of other organisms including sometimes their own fellow species. Also by being super horny and having lots of sex to spread their genes into the next generation.

Those pacifists who refused to kill anything or anyone, or those who were less aggressive often got killed or just died. Their genes did not pass on to the next generation.

Those who were not sexually motivated and didn't want to have sex, or who wanted to have sex but couldn't find a willing partner so they just didn't have sex, they also did not pass their genes into the next generation.

Those who were the most ruthless, who fucked the most, including those who would rape anyone they got their hands on, they often had many, many children. All those children had those same genetics of being a ruthless mofo, and so are more likely to be violent and DGAF about consent.

You are familiar with Darwin's "Survival of the Fittest"? Well, I have a more precise terminology and that is "Survival of the most Ruthless and Horny."

Mind you, I'm not saying this is a good thing, it's just the way it is. We are as the evolutionary psychologists you speak of are well aware, the products of many generations of being naturally inclined towards violence and rape. Not just men. Women find these traits attractive. They love a "hunter", they love power, the accumulation of resources, to be "taken". It's just this new culture we have is trying to figure out how they can still love all that stuff but at the same time exercise having equal rights and their own power to not be raped.

Effably · Answer

To be frank, given he quoted dresscode as a way of rape-prevention despite current science showing provocative outfits have a zero to discouraging impact towards rapists show that perhaps this was not something he researched much. After all confirming this much takes all of two minutes with access to a typical University reports index. If he didn't even do a cursory look-over on that point I am hesitant to take anything else at face value.

Also, to be even more blunt, if every professor I had who has a Ph. D was right, half of them would invalidate the other half between morning coffee and lunch. The value of a softer science is usually in comprehension, not hard facts. At most all this says is that there may be evolutionary factors, and well, duh. I'll agree as far as being more comfortable discussing how to prevent it.

Lastly as OP self pointed out, the conclusion of the research was in the job title. For someone studying social phenomena it was a pretty ill chosen statement though.

MrOracle · Answer

The problem - and it's a very common one - is that they are using relatively modern terms and concepts to talk about prehistoric human behavior and then intentionally framing it - without proper context - as applying to modern society.

Do animals rape, or do the give and receive consent? The truth is NEITHER - "rape" implies that you have advanced enough reasoning and enough societal structure to have widely known rules and laws and morals. Animals and prehistoric humans didn't have those things - they developed over time. And in that process, "mating" (where consent is not considered or expected) turned into an activity where consent was a factor.

To call prehistoric sex rape (because it would be considered such in modern society) is like passing laws against wearing furs today and then judging prehistoric humans as criminals for wearing furs.

And this is being done on purpose, by activist radical feminists, to "prove" that "all men are inherently rapists" so that they can justify anti-male sexism. That was the goal they started with, and naturally they framed their papers to justify that conclusion, and overlooked any data that didn't support their narrative.

And unfortunately, there are a lot of low-information, gullible people who only "learn" by reading headlines (and rarely the full story), who believe this garbage.

DrunkAss · Answer

I'm not offended if we put enough info. 90% of violent rapists are black and have turbulent relationships with their single mothers. 85% of child molesters are white and have the most loving relationships with their single mothers. Most school shooters to my understanding are raised by single moms.

razelove · Answer

Radical feminists have parroted such since mankind has had writing (and they could use it), so that isn't surprising or new. With any branch of science though, it's kept alive through grant money. Basically if you have enough money and find scientists with little integrity you make science in the vision you want it to be.

Sexually I have a price. For causality and science that price is much higher. Unfortunately many people think in the opposite direction. If rape was a pathway for men to sexually reproduce, then polygamy would not be the norm across cultures through generations lasting until modern times.

www.sciencedirect.com/.../S0002929710000339

Most women who are raped have that happen from someone close to them, a friend, family member, someone they trust because it makes it difficult to talk about. For the men and women involved there, that's less a reproductive strategy than one of manipulation. Personally I've only had one guy try to roofie me, and three women take advantage of me, hell, I got a number in the dentist's office earlier today.

No idea what drives it, but some men are more attractive to women, and women want to reproduce with them. Just as I have no idea why some guys gather at an altar to worship some pornstar or onlyfans content creator and eliminate themselves from the genepool. We have a lot of new technology and ideals we adhere to, but humans are still animals that can use tools and reasoning. If anyone "ascends" past that, they simply fail to reproduce and don't pass that trait on.

purplepoppy · Answer

We're also "naturally" inclined to commit infanticide and cannibalism but we don't. Genes excuse animals behaviour not humans.

DaisyM23 · Answer

I mean that is kinda true, the male of a lot of mammal species rapes to reproduce and that’s how animals live and men also have that aggression and testosterone and are more likely to rape or be violent. Not all men of course, but there is a biological and social component to it

HugoThe2nd · Answer

I'm not offended, because I don't really get upset about claims that are untrue about me.
But I don't emphasize with such a sentiment at all.

The appeal of sex for me is the woman's desire for me- the fact that she *wants* to have sex with me, and the appeal of dominance for me is the fact that the woman allows me to do it and that she trusts me enough to be vulnerable with me despite our inherent difference in strength and size.

This being non-consensual at any point would pretty much take away all of my enjoyment from sex.

aarnasen · Answer

By rape I mean non-consensual or forced sex. I've read somewhere that rape is considered one of the ways mammalian males reproduce. I mean its not like raping is completely unnatural because why else would some men choose to rape? This however does not excuse rape because appeal to nature is a major fallacy.

kmg9150 · Answer

I don’t feel about it. Questions like these are designed to create a chemical reaction to which we’ve been trained to respond with certain behaviors associated to a current state of mind labeled as emotions. Ask someone how they feel about a racial slur they’ve been taught to respond with a distinctive emotion. Do the same with a word they never heard and then imply that it’s the same as the first word they heard….

Rape is concept of the human species that doesn’t not occur naturally by any means. We created the concept of rape and the emotional mindset to that of the victims, the rapists, and bystanders are to react with. Testosterone naturally can effect aggression, but aggression can be decreased or increased to a certain extent by taught emotional responses towards experiences. Rape is an action that has been created and defined by humans, along side the emotional mindset an individual should express given there role surrounding this act. So no I don’t see their theory as being correct. The natural instinct to survive, reproduce and repeat, is being confused by the act defined as “rape”. Our evolution is leading closer to our extinction at the influence of our own doing.

MCheetah · Answer

"I disagree, but I'm still not offended by either radical feminists or evolutionary psychologists saying this." I can't be offended by a group of people are already know are dumber than pig sh*t. And academia has gotten so bad lately, nothing surprises me.

Did you hear about that one research paper that replaced Mein Kampf with "men" and got approved by feminist "academic scholars"? It was LITERAL Nazi dogma and they approved it. So yeah, nothing surprises me with the endless abyss of stupidity that comes from feminists.

nypost.com/.../

www.timesofisrael.com/.../

Elsa143 · Answer

Feminist or not but isn't it obvious that majority of men commit more rapes, murder and mass shootings?
Look at the older times when men used to abuse and dominate their wives because a female is weaker physically and she wasn't even financially independent.
Look at so many rape cases where majority of victims are women.

Wade8888 · Answer

It's BS.

Madhatter920 · Answer

I'm not sure I believe it, as I haven't looked into it much, myself. However from what little I understand of the theory, it seems logically sound. If they have the evidence to back it up, then that's that. No point in being offended by the truth, if it is indeed the truth. And again, I don't know enough to say whether it is or isn't.

iseekpinetrees · Answer

Really depends on the person and personal views.

ZackBan · Answer

What I know is psychology is highly subjective, has no scientific backing and anyone can claim anything they want if they're well spoken enough to give arguments about it.

Also the world has forgotten that people are different as individuals. We now see men in general or women in general or divid according to race or origin and no one stops to give someone the benifit of the doubt anymore.
If one guy is a rapist all men are rapists and they make whole "scientific" study about it.

Thanks but no thanks. I am what I am and will not allow prejudice to dictate my life and you or anyone shouldn't too.

So "offended" is not a word I like as it entales a modern philosophy that represents a big part of today's problems but in this context yes I am offended on a presonal level that someone would make such a claim about me even though I have never done anything even remotely close to hint that I have these tendencies.

LuvMeSomeBoys · Answer

I’m not offended by it, but I also recognize such claims are published as theory. Interestingly, though, I did have a client who wanted to use the “evolutionary” theory men are predisposed to rape as an affirmative defense against forcible sodomy and rape charges.

Astarlessnightsky · Answer

I disagree without being offended.

Leavesbound · Answer

First, most men are horny perverts. In a civilized culture this does not manifest into violence as a common thing. But in some uncivilized cultures it does. But only in the context of the fact that a relatively small number of men are inclined towards giving in to their baser desires regardless of what they are whether it is sex, violence, alcohol consumption, drugs, war etc. This is largely due to testosterone which in civilized cultures there are coping mechanisms such as organized sports which help to alleviate any such inclinations.

NathanDavis · Answer

There is some truth to this statement, however I do not agree with the wording.

While our brains might be wired in a certain way that will make us susceptible to committ violence of any kind, we're also wired to be able to control such impulses.

So we, as men... we're naturally inclined to control our impulses and urges and NOT to actively engage and act upon them. And this is why the vast majority of men actually won't engage on (majors acts) of violence of any kind, and certainly won't go around raping people.

So this is just bad wording for the sake of controversial attention.

About the feminists take on these statements, I have no opinion at the moment.

How do you feel about evolutionary psychologists saying that men are naturally inclined to commit violence and rape?

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